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  1. #1
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    Mando Footloose: Chainless folding e-bike

    http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ma...deo-48597.html

    Those of you who will visit the Eurobike can see it at the Mando/Meister booth in Hall A4-703.

  2. #2
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    The only relatively hi-res photo I could find (via road.cc):

    http://road.cc/sites/default/files/i...0Footloose.JPG

  3. #3
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    The most intriguing thing to me about Footloose is the decoupling of drivetrain and crankset. Pedaling simply charge the battery and presumably control the motor output (pedelec). I wonder how efficient such as system is. Regardless, if the pedelec control is precise enough and better yet also regulates braking, some novel applications may be enabled via software:

    - Trainer/generator mode: Charge your bike and electronics, such as an iPhone, while you train at home.

    - Coaster brake mode: Back-pedal to brake.

    - Quasi-fixie mode: Back-pedal to reverse motor rotation.

  4. #4
    Member ryukenden's Avatar
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    I like the design. Very clean look for electric bike.
    Current: 2012 Tern Link D8 w/Brooks B17

  5. #5
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    Wow! Looks amazing.

  6. #6
    tcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by fwd-bwd View Post
    I wonder how efficient such as system is.
    Human-powered electric generators range from 30-80% efficiency, and electric motors generally 75-90% efficient. The Mando Footloose is neat, but it will lose maybe 30-80% of the rider's effort in the electrical drive system.

    Clean, lubricated chain drives can be 98-99% efficient.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  7. #7
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    The bike is nice and clean looking.
    Hopefully in a few more years it can become lighter and more efficient.
    Progress has to start somewhere and this looks to be a good start.

  8. #8
    tcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttakata73 View Post
    Hopefully in a few more years it can become lighter and more efficient.
    Progress has to start somewhere and this looks to be a good start.
    They been working on more efficient electric motors and generators for the last 170 years.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  9. #9
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    So from the riding demo it looks as if the user is running out the battery waaay faster than he will even charge it. In the end it's just an ebike because you'll be able hardpressed to keep moving once the inital charge runs out and its then relying on your pedals to charge it.

  10. #10
    New usename ThorUSA brakemeister's Avatar
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    everything new is exiting .... I doubt that it will be anywhere practical but than who am I to judge :-)
    Looks good though

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post
    it will lose maybe 30-80% of the rider's effort in the electrical drive system.
    Thanks for the info. I was rather disappointed when I first read that. After giving it more thoughts, I start to think that most potential e-bike buyers might not care. They most likely will charge their bike via a wall plug, and the pedaling recharger is more akin to a bonus range extender for them. These are not your typical cyclists and the output efficiency probably isn't something that resonates with them. (Look at the mobile phone evolution: Although hardware keyboard is indeed more efficient than touchscreen keyboard, most users simply don't care.) Bike designers and manufacturers would benefit from an open mind should they wish to expand into this largely untapped market. Mando, a case in point, happens to be an auto parts maker.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post
    They been working on more efficient electric motors and generators for the last 170 years.
    Haha, so true.
    OK forget the motor.
    Hopefully battery technology will improve greatly to make this a better bike down the road.
    My experience with RC cars leads me to think the charge will run out fast as mentioned in earlier posts.

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    More info regarding Footloose can be found in these two videos.





    - Artificial intelligence gear shifting: A major benefit of replacing the mechanical control system (chain/belt/shaft) with fly-by-wire software control.

    - Long wheelbase: Improves stability and comfort for a small wheel bike.

    - Trainer/generator mode: The first video seems to confirm this.

    - Designed by Mark Sanders: It is, in a sense, a 21st century Strida, and what iF Mode should have been.

  14. #14
    Senior Member gringo_gus's Avatar
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    never mind the pedal generated electricity, does anyone know how I can generate myself some of that artificial intelligence stuff ? Running short here.
    it aint the size of your wheels, its the rhythm of you cadence. And I got powergrips too.

  15. #15
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    Mark Sanders has uploaded the product catalog here:
    http://issuu.com/mark77a/docs/120830...cf93409f27dd95

    Interesting tidbits:
    - Detach the LCD display to immobilize the bike (anti-theft)
    - Two riding modes—pedals or throttle
    - Two gear shift modes—manual or automatic
    - Top speed—25 km/h; max range—45 km (doesn't say whether that includes pedaling power)

  16. #16
    jur
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post
    Human-powered electric generators range from 30-80% efficiency, and electric motors generally 75-90% efficient. The Mando Footloose is neat, but it will lose maybe 30-80% of the rider's effort in the electrical drive system.
    For a good quality brushless DC motor you are looking at well over 90% for efficiency. Still not as good as a cleaned, lubed, unworn derailer drivetrain but perhaps same as derailer drivetrain after some use.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by fwd-bwd View Post
    Mark Sanders has uploaded the product catalog here:
    http://issuu.com/mark77a/docs/120830...cf93409f27dd95
    Reading the Q&A with Mark Sanders one has to wonder how could have been an electric Strida today, 25 years later.

    And yes, the Strida is a bit weird for regular people and like he says bold companies release bold products, but I have serious doubts that a Mando Footloose can get to that "blue ocean" of consumers, coming from a non-bike company. Unless you sell it as, let's say, an Apple bike.

  18. #18
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos71 View Post
    ...And yes, the Strida is a bit weird for regular people and like he says bold companies release bold products, but I have serious doubts that a Mando Footloose can get to that "blue ocean" of consumers, coming from a non-bike company. Unless you sell it as, let's say, an Apple bike.
    iBike... and it'll retail for twice the price as when it was called the Mando Footloose.
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  19. #19
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    The Mando Footloose will get on sale in South Korea next month. The automobile suppliers will use their domestic market as a testing ground. Earlier extensive testing of prototypes took place in Korea and in Europe.

    Sale of the Mando Footloose in Europe is planned for mid 2013. Retail price has not been set yet but will be in the premium ranges. Distribution will take place at multiple channels in Europe through selected partners in the European countries and through selected dealers.
    http://www.bike-eu.com/Sales-Trends/...ling-1057565W/

    So I'll have to wait like a year to get one.

  20. #20
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post
    Clean, lubricated chain drives can be 98-99% efficient.
    The downside of chain drive is that it does not store energy. Sometimes you don't pedal at all and sometime, on steep hills, pedal like crazy. The electric drivetrain will allow you to pedal all the time at ideal cadence generating average riding power + losses.
    Happier than a camel on wednesday.

  21. #21
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    Very Futuristic! Bet it doesn't work. Power from the pedals can not possibly be transmitted to the wheel without HUGE friction losses. Rotational forces would need to be turned 90 degrees at the pedal crank, at the hinge point of the frame and at the rear hub. Complicated, heavy and troublesome. Cantilevered front axle is needlessly stressed for the sake of style. This is form DEFYING function.

  22. #22
    Formerly Known as Newbie Juha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magic carpet View Post
    Power from the pedals can not possibly be transmitted to the wheel without HUGE friction losses.
    If I understood correctly, there's no power being directly transmitted from pedals to the wheel. Pedalling charges a battery, battery powers an e-motor that drives the wheel.

    --J
    To err is human. To moo is bovine.

    Who is this General Failure anyway, and why is he reading my drive?


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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juha View Post
    If I understood correctly, there's no power being directly transmitted from pedals to the wheel. Pedalling charges a battery, battery powers an e-motor that drives the wheel.

    --J
    AAAAH! Still bet it doesn't work worth a darn.

  24. #24
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juha View Post
    If I understood correctly, there's no power being directly transmitted from pedals to the wheel. Pedalling charges a battery, battery powers an e-motor that drives the wheel.

    --J
    That is what I understand too.

    I think it's a great idea assuming -- see the earlier points -- the energy storage and motor are very efficient. It would be great to always have the same resistance over a trip ... consider trading an easy ride to work for a hard ride home.

  25. #25
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    There is an interesting post about this over on Bicycle Design
    See the comments - some good links too.
    Bicycle - the perfect 'Human Amplifier' For the same energy as walking, goes 4x distance and 4x speed, no sweat ... the new 4x4 ?

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