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  1. #26
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    why do you guys like these bikes so much? im not trolling, its a serious question. why not buy a better quality used bike?

    you could buy a fully suspended downtube with sturmey 8 speed hub for 400 and change (with some bargaining). you could be riding it tomorrow! there are plenty of other nice folding bikes in your area. and several vintage folders as well for cheap. why pay full price for a lower quality bike??

    http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/bik/3354880119.html

    http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/bik/3393657694.html

    http://salem.craigslist.org/bik/3365391511.html

  2. #27
    Senior Member Pinigis's Avatar
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    Smallwheeerler,
    You seem to like to focus on used bikes from Craigslist. Most any product (bike, car, etc.) will be cheaper when purchased used. I can buy a used car with 100,000 miles on it for less than the cost of a new one. I could buy a used Cricket for less than the cost of a new one. Comparing new to used is an apples to oranges proposition. Find a bike that you like (new or used) that meets your needs and fits your budget.

  3. #28
    Junior Member ILLI13's Avatar
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    Smallwheeerler,
    I have looked at CL and seen first two bikes you mentioned.
    Although IGH on a downtube is a very nice option, bike does not have rack, fenders, kick stand, all of which I would like to have. Also $495 is not exactly "400 with change" and I doubt the price would be dropped significantly. Therefore the bike and add-ons mentioned above would get me to a $600 range for the bike.
    The Dahon from the 2nd link is almost twice as expensive as Cricket and I dont have that kind of budget for a bike at the moment. The 3rd one seems to be on the other spectrum of price/quality range, so I am not sure why are you recommending it since you are insisting on buying only high quality.
    Now speaking of quality - its not an exact scale. People who ride BF or Brompton bikes think of Dahons as low quality.
    Do you have any personal experience with Origami bikes? If yes, please share your thoughts - I would really appreciate it. However if you have never tested/driven/tried one, I don't think you can make any claims regarding the quality or reliability of the bike.

  4. #29
    Senior Member Pinigis's Avatar
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    OK, there is another option besides full-priced new and used...Origami is having a one-day Black Friday sale. Savings will be up to $100.00....sort of a new bike at a used-bike price.

  5. #30
    Senior Member darukhan's Avatar
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    Congrats on your new folder!

    I was anticipating the release of the Origami Fox ever since it was announced many months ago. It has a fold that's very similar to a Brompton.

    It's now available from Origami, however, I was very disappointed to see that I don't fit the rider specs of the Fox. (Unfortunately, I'm too tall and heavy for the Fox model.)


  6. #31
    Senior Member Pinigis's Avatar
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    We have the Fox at the smaller end of the spectrum, and the Mantis at the upper end (up to 6'4"). We are contemplating scaling the Fox up for larger riders, but we are putting that on the back burner in favor of two other new designs.

  7. #32
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    the fox is cool. especially in black with the improved steering mast:

    sfb2.jpg

  8. #33
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinigis View Post
    Smallwheeerler,
    You seem to like to focus on used bikes from Craigslist. Most any product (bike, car, etc.) will be cheaper when purchased used. I can buy a used car with 100,000 miles on it for less than the cost of a new one. I could buy a used Cricket for less than the cost of a new one. Comparing new to used is an apples to oranges proposition. Find a bike that you like (new or used) that meets your needs and fits your budget.

    i dont focus on used bikes from craigslist. my comments were directed at the often asked question, "im on a budget. what bike can you recommend that will offer the most value for money?" the "apples and oranges" comparison you offer is nonsensical. we can easily compare the value of used bikes to new ones. in fact, i find it kind of baffling that this has to be explained. although, in your particular case, not so much, as you are a dealer who's purpose of being in this forum is to sell your products.

  9. #34
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILLI13 View Post
    Smallwheeerler,
    I have looked at CL and seen first two bikes you mentioned.
    Although IGH on a downtube is a very nice option, bike does not have rack, fenders, kick stand, all of which I would like to have. Also $495 is not exactly "400 with change" and I doubt the price would be dropped significantly. Therefore the bike and add-ons mentioned above would get me to a $600 range for the bike.
    The Dahon from the 2nd link is almost twice as expensive as Cricket and I dont have that kind of budget for a bike at the moment. The 3rd one seems to be on the other spectrum of price/quality range, so I am not sure why are you recommending it since you are insisting on buying only high quality.
    Now speaking of quality - its not an exact scale. People who ride BF or Brompton bikes think of Dahons as low quality.
    Do you have any personal experience with Origami bikes? If yes, please share your thoughts - I would really appreciate it. However if you have never tested/driven/tried one, I don't think you can make any claims regarding the quality or reliability of the bike.

    my intent in showing you those listings was to highlight the fact that you have a lot of options for your price range and were intended as examples only. the third one i showed you was something comparable to what you were considering buying. please remember, i'm not the one trying to sell you something.

  10. #35
    Senior Member Pinigis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
    the fox is cool. especially in black with the improved steering mast:

    sfb2.jpg
    This one is similar, but definately not the same as the Fox. This one has a different geometry (not a straight line through the main tube and swingarm, different geometry to the swingarm, completly different steering) and differnent brakes (Fox uses a rear band brake). This bike looks a bit awkward, while the Fox is elegant.

  11. #36
    Senior Member JosephLMonti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinigis View Post
    We are contemplating scaling the Fox up for larger riders, but we are putting that on the back burner in favor of two other new designs.
    Ok, you know you can't just put that out there w/o us harassing you for details. Do tell all...

  12. #37
    Senior Member Pinigis's Avatar
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    Well, we have a nice steel-framed bike that should be available by the end of the year. Seven-speed shimano, disk brakes, very nice handling. Although it is steel, we kept the weight low (about 28 lbs.) and we kept the folded dimensions very compact.
    110000000000000.jpg

  13. #38
    Senior Member Pinigis's Avatar
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    Oh, the second one is a Mini Velo, but it is several months away.

  14. #39
    Senior Member edwong3's Avatar
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    Oh, I like the looks of that one! Nothing wrong with steel. I haven't ridden an aluminum bike that I can remember I liked a lot.

    Ed

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinigis View Post
    Well, we have a nice steel-framed bike that should be available by the end of the year. Seven-speed shimano, disk brakes, very nice handling. Although it is steel, we kept the weight low (about 28 lbs.) and we kept the folded dimensions very compact.
    110000000000000.jpg
    Edward Wong III
    2008 Qile Duo VSTII Single Speed 20" Folder (Converted from a 5 speed)
    2012 Greenzone Value Edition 7 Speed 20" Folder

  15. #40
    Junior Member ILLI13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
    my intent in showing you those listings was to highlight the fact that you have a lot of options for your price range and were intended as examples only. the third one i showed you was something comparable to what you were considering buying. please remember, i'm not the one trying to sell you something.
    I do my research-believe me. That's why I am asking current owners for their opinions, and not just follow whatever seller says (although I dont think there is anything wrong in Paul promoting his bikes here). And I look at other options as well. However, for the price range I can afford at the moment, this bike seems to be the best option. From the limited information I found regarding Kent Transit bike - it seems to be of much lower quality than Origami bikes.
    I do appreciate your efforts, though...

  16. #41
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    That sounds great, ILL13.

    All i asked was, why? (post #26) Why, for your price range, is this the best option?

  17. #42
    Junior Member ILLI13's Avatar
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    I'd like to get a bike within $400. I was looking at Downtube Nova, Citizen Gotham 2, Greenzone PE and Origami Cricket. Cricket seems to offer the most options for money - mainly full suspension, which in my mind puts it above Gotham 2 and Greenzone. Nova is the most expensive of those and does not have rack and fenders. The suspension bikes from Downtube are above my price range. As I said I am still seriously considering the used Downtube with IGH from CL, but with addons it will cost me around $550-600, so it gets above my price range. Plus I do not like white (I know it is silly...)

  18. #43
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    the guy who is selling the downtube is also selling a birdy, a dahon helios xl, and a citizen bike. its a good opportunity to test ride 4 different bikes all with different features and levels of quality.

  19. #44
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    ILLI13 - Been riding it every day! And folding it most days for transport in my van as well, all is good.

    Took off the fenders, mounted the Alivio derailleur (my bad at order time - it's a long cage, short would have been better but it works with the OEM grip shifter anyway), got a Topeak under-saddle bag for carrying a tube and tools. I've left the triple crank on for the current time; still making up my mind about where to go with upgrades, based on what I'd like and the advice I've been given here. I like the IGH idea, but will probably for the foreseeable future simply mount the front derailleur, stay with the OEM hubs/rims, and 6spd freewheel. Do plan to replace the outer 42t chainring w/a 48t regardless.

    Bike gets a lot of compliments. Weighed it at the LBS, it was right on spec. The rear rack is lighter than anything I found at the LBS by several ounces, but I wish it had a hole or hook at the bottom as a place to attach straps/bungee side-to-side. As is I just go under the rack and connect to the other side.

    As they say on eBay: Happy customer; would buy again!!!

  20. #45
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    smallwheeler - I liked the frame (materials and perceived geometry) better than anything else I saw within several hundred dollars price range. I also wanted to support a growing business if possible. The Downtube FS was a close contender. Having owned lots of other kinds of bikes before (but not a folder) I knew that I would want to customize/upgrade as I 'grew into' the bike. I wanted to start cheap enough to be able to afford that upgrade without spending a fortune, so a good frame was my major consideration, knowing that later on I could take the rest where I want to go at my own pace and price.

  21. #46
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinigis View Post
    This one is similar, but definately not the same as the Fox. This one has a different geometry (not a straight line through the main tube and swingarm, different geometry to the swingarm, completly different steering) and differnent brakes (Fox uses a rear band brake). This bike looks a bit awkward, while the Fox is elegant.

    actually, the more obtuse steering mast angle on the Black Fox increases cockpit size, improves handling and stability, affords a more ergonomic riding posture, and is more aesthetically pleasing.

    pos.png

  22. #47
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capnk View Post
    smallwheeler - I liked the frame (materials and perceived geometry) better than anything else I saw within several hundred dollars price range. I also wanted to support a growing business if possible. The Downtube FS was a close contender. Having owned lots of other kinds of bikes before (but not a folder) I knew that I would want to customize/upgrade as I 'grew into' the bike. I wanted to start cheap enough to be able to afford that upgrade without spending a fortune, so a good frame was my major consideration, knowing that later on I could take the rest where I want to go at my own pace and price.
    i agree 100%

  23. #48
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    consider this: products have to be profitable. dealer and manufacturer have to make a profit. if you can buy a brand new folding bicycle with racks, front and rear suspension, folding telescopic stem, frame hinge, derailleur, complete wheelset, tires, tubes, brake set, grips, and whatever else, for 300usd - how cheaply must all of these parts be produced for a profit margin to exist?

    also consider, when you want to upgrade your components, you will personally be doing that piecemeal and mostly at full retail. so, when you read a thread here about how great schwalbe big apples are and you want to upgrade those perpetually off-gassing cheap-o tires after your third flat in as many weeks, be prepared to pay nearly 100usd for a pair of those.. not to mention the crappy shimano tz derailleur, etc.

    that doesnt even include the build quality of the frame set with those very critical hinge assemblies...

  24. #49
    Senior Member JosephLMonti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
    Something is not right here...if you look at the main pic the fork appears to have uber-rake, but zooming into the mini-pic (one on left), the fork rake looks more normal.


  25. #50
    Senior Member badmother's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JosephLMonti View Post
    Something is not right here...if you look at the main pic the fork appears to have uber-rake, but zooming into the mini-pic (one on left), the fork rake looks more normal.

    The small picture is taken after the crash, silly...

    actually I think it is not the same bike. Looks like there is a spoke reflector on the front wheel on the small picture but not on the big. Also a telescopic seatpost on the small picture I think. I am guessing old and new version of the bike and they did not follow up on the pictures.

    I like folders with wheels on the rack.
    °Empty drums make a lot of noice... (Old Hungarian proverb).

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