Thrasymachus

I am hoping to bid a transfer to a worksite that is only a little over a mile from my house. Unfortunately it does not look like I can store a full size bicycle there. Here are some requirements I have for a folder:
1) A rear rack at least is a must. It does not need to have a front rack, but it needs mount points for one.
2) It needs a gear ratio that can handle steep gradients.
3) A stock front hub dynamo would be nice, as I work at night.
4) Good stock fenders that will protect me from rain or snow being kicked up by the tires.

Some additional thoughts comments:
-- I work for NJ Transit, so I can ride trains and buses for free, so I would like a folder that is not too inconvenient or bulky on a train, but it does not have to be a Brompton(which infact looks ill-suited to my current needs).
-- If I transfer I am going car-free.

I am willing to spend $1,000+. Maybe even $2,000, if a folder can fill my road and grocery hauling niche. If a folder is close enough in performance to a touring type bike on pavement, I would spend more. Right now all I have is a lower-end 2010 Trek 6000 hardtail($899) that I have a rear rack installed on which I use for everything, sometimes hauling groceries, going for road rides and off-road.

Questions:
Would a folder be faster than my Trek mtb on the road?
Do folders handle better or worse under load because they are closer to the ground?

What bike do you think is a good fit for my requirements and needs?

bhkyte

You sound like you need to test ride some folders as they fit and ride quite differently.
Bikes that might work include brompton,mezzo( you can add an ori stem bag at front also),bike friday with two racks,moulton, r4 dibalsi takes 2 racks,downtube range, some of dahons have fittings for a front qr bag truss.


If you have a look at the mezzo thread or upgrading a mezzo thereis a non mezzo rack system with a larger range of bag pannier options that could be used on a mezzorack, their rack could also be mounted on another bike other than a mezzo. I might see about putting a spare mezzo rack on to my brompton to accomadate the system.

cbike

I'm not sure why you think the Brompton is ill-suited. The six speed with reduced gearing, rack, hub dynamo will cover all your requirement. You can even tour with it. In April I rode 400 miles down the central California coast with plenty of decent hills thanks to the wonderful Big Sur area. The quick folding is awesome for multimodal transportation . Price of course is at the high end.

Do take bhkyte suggestion and test ride several different ones. Folding bikes feel quite different between each others as well.

Thrasymachus

@bhkyte:
I tested a Dahon Eco7($499) at my local bikestore. 20" rode better than I thought it would. However I did not like the microshift gear shifter and it did not change gears smoothly and it is low end compared to what I would want. However, that just could be because it was not tuned properly. Unfortunately where I live there is no utilitarian biking culture, so there are hardly any folding bikes to test. But on a day off I could go into NYC to go to NYCeWheels, which however I am loathe to do until I see a transfer bid available and I successfully bid for it.

@cbike:
I looked it up and Brompton's do come stock with hub dynamos. However from what I understand Brompton is better at folding but has sacrifices in speed and ride stability. For example, I am not sure that it can haul as much or carry non specialty panniers. I am thinking a 20" would be better for my needs. Infact my friend even used to ride his hardtail mountain bike to the same work location I want to transfer to for a short stretch and he stored it in a storage closet. I just wanted to look into a folder because I figure that taking up the storage closet constantly will eventually piss someone off. If I lived in a city, or did a commute partially by train and bus everyday, it would be Brompton all the way. I also like how it can transform into a shopping cart:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34f4i7d4A-c

ttakata73

You are asking for a bike that can do everything and no such thing exists.
A rear rack and fenders might cost less than $100 so I would not factor those into your decision just make sure the bike can mount these accessories.
For the kind of money you are willing to spend you can make a folder fast, able to haul goods, and possibly be light off road capable.
I second the Bike Friday or possibly a Dahon Formula S18 (swap to a 1 piece handlepost) and pimp them out with racks, fenders, and dynamo.
Make sure the bike has V or disc brakes.
With proper gearing a 20" folder will always out accelerate a 26" MTB just due to physics of smaller wheels.
For a light off-road capable folder, make sure it can fit fat tires.

jur

Bike Friday.

Swift, possibly steel frame version.

phillybill

If you go to nycewheels , bring your wallet, they have it all. Take a good look at the Pacific Reach bikes. Some of their 20" bikes have an incredible fold and ride and take a rack. When I was there in Jan, I had just gotten a BF Tikit, which was ok, but as a big guy it flexed a bit much for me.
This one might work well....
https://www.nycewheels.com/pacific-reach-city.html

But do not discount a brompton, I rode one almost all last year with the front luggage and rear rack in a 6 speed version. I only got rid of it because I used to hit/catch the inside heel of my shoe on the rear wheel of the rack. Got the scars to prove it. Otherwise I was very happy with it , and I live just outside philly close to a train station.

But I think if I had seen the Reach before... I would have gone for that. Do not discount BF's and Lama or new world yourist can be had in the NY city region for a resonable price on craigs list.

fietsbob

NB; faster is about pushing your torso through the wind..
a less comfortable down on all 4's posture reduces that resistance..

Bike Fridays Pocket Rocket is going to be a skinny tire High pressure 451 20" wheel..


Mountain Climbing , pass hunting on a folding bike..
Adding a Schlumpf 2 speed crank, with a 50 t chainring.. in low range, its as if it has a 20t granny gear..

functionally, hub 1st, crank, direct range , is followed by 3rd in low, reduction gear, range..

both being planetaries, The shifts can be done at the same time..

This is fitted on my Brompton, the Swiss company has a model made just for Them...

[20:13 x .75 is like 1:1.15, x 16 is (about) 18 GI]

Fwiw, the EZ wheels are thin to reduce heel strike. they just don't stick out, so far..

(there's an aftermarket custom made set that are even thinner)

alhedges

A statement like this is too general to be meaningful; you really need to test ride a Brompton (and probably a Bike Friday as well).

I don't see any difference in stability between a Brompton and any other folder I've ridden. I can carry (theoretically) 100 lbs of luggage on my BF (which I spec'd as a touring bike), but at a practical matter I would never carry half that much on tour. Carrying 40 lbs of luggage is quite doable on a Brompton, though, so there may not be a large tradeoff there.

On the other hand, the low gear I chose for my friday is 18", which is lower than that on the Brompton - but I mostly only use that gear for going up steep hills fully loaded (the bike being fully loaded, I mean).

The downside of the BF is, of course, that it has a kind of large and ungainly fold, particularly if you have the rear rack on it. It will take up much less space than a mountain bike, of course, but you can't put it under a desk or table like you can with a Brompton. You are looking for a *folding* bike after all, and if you're going to be folding and unfolding it twice a day, you need to consider the folding aspect of it in the same way you consider the riding aspect of it. [/QUOTE]

Thrasymachus

@ttakata73:
I am not asking for everything. I just want to hopefully get a folder that is better or faster on the road than my current low-end mtb. I don't expect it to compete with a road bike. I wanted to get a Surly Cross-check in 2012 for my road rides and grocery hauling, but I ended up spending that money instead on vet bills for my cat. So given that I only have one bike that is ill suited for commuting, grocery hauling and pavement riding, I would rather a folder that can fill this niche, till I can save up again to maybe get another bike in the stable. Also I could add lots of parts like rear-rack, fender, dynamo hub, light, etc., but when you buy parts individually you always end up paying alot more.

@alhedges:
Even the people on NYCeWheels in the facebook comments on their webpages often candidly mention that Bromptons are meant to be more convenient and easy to ride and fold and not necessarily fast compared to other folders. If I had that Surly Cross-check probably I would be looking at a Brompton, but I didn't. Everday I will have to go down this hill:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

And up this hill:


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I am not sure I would want to do that everyday on 16" wheels late at night.

fietsbob

54t chainring turns a 12 t cog on a 16" wheel over like a 72" wheel.

on a 3 speed hub that 72" gear ,in 3rd is 96 "


Like Crocodile Dundee , out West , we say "You Call That A Hill" ?

Roger DH

Commuting? Errands? Loading capacity? Stability with loads?

I like my Bike Friday Tikit really well for these.

While only a medium-small fold, it folds quickly without needing to re-set any saddle/handlebar adjustments. As I get on or off the bus, I only need to step out of the flow of pedestrians for about 10 seconds to fold/unfold, and it does it in one motion.

I have my bike set up with a front basket/zippered tote bag that is good for commuting loads or a quick trip to the grocery (a Rivendell concept). The basket in the front is only slightly wider than the width it would take up without the basket - plus it can stand fairly well on the basket to take up less space in the subway. I bet the Brompton/Tern front-mounted bags have utility that's also excellent.

For larger loads than a front bag/basket can handle, I believe a detachable saddle bag (Carradice, Rivendell, etc.) beats permanent rear racks. One big bag gives a more versatile, single cargo space than the two side panniers and top trunk that one can do with a rear rack. On a small-wheeled bike, it may be that no rack support is needed for the saddle bag at all, leaving the bike unencumbered for the 90% of riding when the extra bag is not needed.

I find the low loading of small wheels is much more stable than loading up high on my 700c bike, and I prefer my folder to my 700c bikes for commuting, errands and hauling loads. Today, I went on errands to the coffee bean shop, liquor store, and bike shop. The bag held my purchases neatly in the rack, and I easily used a couple of straps to safely secure the 20" Duomatic wheel I picked up - all right up front where I can keep an eye on them. I had actually bought the wheel the previous week, but was riding my touring bike with panniers that day and couldn't figure out how to safely secure it to bring it home. Needed the folder for that.

Whether it be Tikit, Brompton, Tern, or others, a properly set up folder is right in the wheelhouse of the OP's goals.



Roger

smallwheeler

a 6 speed brompton will handle that ride easily. you're basing your current opinion on assumptions. i think the "take away" from this thread is that you need to test ride a few bikes.

buelito

the dahon speed P8 is a great bike for what you want- it folds relatively small (not brompton small, but it is a quick fold). It can accomodate a rack, fenders and big apples. I rode mine on Ridt the Rockies last year (close to 500 miles in one week, with a few mountain passes thrown in). It worked great. Not unstable on the fast downhills.
I have recently 'moved up' to a bikefriday New World Tourist. It handles better, but the fold is a pain for commuting on trains. I plan to take it to Ride the Rockies this year.
I personally do not like the design that has a hinge in the middle of the bike. That is the weak point. I like the BikeFriday because there is no hinge in the middle- the swift is similar.
good luck!

train safe-

JugglerDave

I have a Tern Link P7i and I think it might be exactly what OP is looking for. I have had it since last July and have about 150 round trip commutes on it at 8.5 miles each day plus two 25-minute Amtrak Commutes. I've been doing this commute for 6 years now.

The commute includes a hill which has a 315 ft vertical drop/gain in about 1/2 mile. The steepest section is 15% grade though most of it is 7-10%.
I hit 35-40MPH going down the hill and have to come to a full stop at a 1 lane train underpass. Climbing the hill in the PM, I'm in the lowest gear for most of the hill (I believe 32 gear-inches).

The bike fits the narrow "coat closet" on the Amtrak Amfleet trains nicely.

it has a rack.

It has a front dynamo and built-in front light, which is enough light except for full pitch-dark mornings (when I supplement with a Fenix flashlight @ 170 lumens).

The biggest drawback might be that with the 7 gears, the top gear is not quite as high as I'd like... but I need the low gear for my hill. The fenders are OK but not perfect.

bhkyte

I feel a brompton with droped bars or bullbars might suit your needs. When the cockpit space is improved on a brommie they handle much better imo. Much more like a 26 bike. Ad a stiffer rear elastimoter and slick tyres they can be quicker than a mountain bike. You can put a burtterfly clip around the elsticmoter to stiffen the rear suspension up. Fitting a means of increasing the cockpit would mean a bit of modyfing ( that's another thread). I am a not a brompton fan , but it sounds like a good fit for you.

cbike

I think we are beating a dead cow. He just doesn't want a Brompton.

Seriously though, Thrasymachus, you need to stop looking at the bike pamphlets, specs, and websites and just ride some folders. You worry to much about speed and wheel size. Speed is mostly depended on the rider. The wheel size doesn't matter at all regarding to speed or the ability to go up/down steep hills.

And ask yourself the question: "Would I want to ride that everyday on a bicycle late at night."

BTW, I find the "shopping cart feature" silly and unusable.

Azreal911

I think the OP is preferring 20 inch tires because the bumps would be less prominent when he goes screaming down that hill every morning. Also with (406) 20 inch tires the choices are much greater and can better suit him due to his road conditions instead of the 349 sizes. It's his choice so i'll try to help him close to his specs. What I would suggest unfortunately that he really needs to go to nycewheels and try out these models at the store due to their very wide gear range (i'm not going to assume he climbs like a billy goat like some of this forum ), racks and lights can be added on afterwards with least amount of trouble. Really sorry dude but for folding bikes you sometimes might just hate the way they feel and they aren't a very standard feeling on what you are used to on a full sized bike. You really have to ride it around the block a few times to find out as cbike says "do I really want to ride this EVERYDAY?" if you hate it then it might just ruin your passion to ride which is not what our forum wants to do be it folder or non folder.
Tern P24h
Dahon Mu P24
I really like the IF reach there but I'm too lazy to calculate what is the gear range for those 9 speeds you'll have to try that one too!

Thrasymachus

Do they make 16" tires with metal studs for the Brompton? If not I think that closes that subject, because in winter both trips will be in darkness and especially going downhill I won't be able to avoid possible icy patches. I will have to travel when snow removal is possibly spotty and not done at all or in progress. Far as I can tell they sell 20" studded tires but not 16", even for if it just for psychological peace of mind, I will want studded tires then.

@Azreal911:
The thing about trying bikes is that there is a big difference between trying them in front of a store for a few minutes and using them day in and out for whatever use you put it to. For example I didn't regret the Trek 6000 till I realized how inadequate alot of the components where in performance, especially the fork and wish I spent at least $1500. But yeah, if I see the bid sheet open I will head out to NYC to test some folders to get a better idea of what I like. I will even try a Brompton even though I am strongly disinclined to the 16" wheel size for my use.

vmaniqui

i suggest you check the dahon speed tr (24 speed with IGH). not sure if it's still available. you can check with thor of thorusa.com. he might know a thing or 2. i have a tr and love it.

badmother

I think the snow part is important. I know peopel ride B`s in snow, and I have done it myself but would not like to rely on a 16" bike in snow. Been thinking many times that if I had to rely on bikes as only transport it would have to be my 20" but I would hate to see my B go!

I bought studded tyres for two 20" bikes this winter and find unless there is a lot of snow they do great in the winter. Deep sand and deep snow is not good.

Tere is a lot of ways to carry luggage on small wheeled bikes, and in general you can carry much more on a small wheeler than on a regular bike. Also remember you can use a trailer (like the Burley Travoy) if you have to carry bulky items. If you buy the right trailer you can also use it without the bike, can be useful some times.

I think for you (apart from good fit) the fold is important. Look for a bike with a small fold, and look for a bike that stays folded when you lift it up. I also suggest you get a bike that can be rolled when folded. Several of them can be rolled on one or two wheels if you leave the seatpost long and use the seat to hold the bike and roll it.

Make sure you can lock the bike securly. Is there a way of threading the lock trough the frame?


Decide if you want steel or alu- or if it is not important to you.


Decide if you want IGH (Internal gear hub) or der gearing.


Decide if a frame mounted luggage solution is important to you or if you want to use a front rack for panniers or a basket (or if you want to be able to use all three).


Is there a maximum weight you can live with?


What about buying second hand (lightly used) the first time? when you buy your second bike you know much more what you are looking for so maybe not sink a lot of money into the first one?

Did you tell us how tall you are? How much do you want to carry on the bike (rider plus luggage)?


I suggest you are not too worryed about the stock dynamo. A dyno frontwheel is easy to buy and install and it may be good to have the spare (stock) wheel available in an emergency if the bike is your only transport.


I was lucky that my first 20" phurcase (new but 50% off price) fit me like a glowe, now I want a new more "blingy" bike but can not make myself give up the one I have. Tell us more about what you want and need!

fietsbob

Bike Friday Pocket Llama will get you a size option any of 8, room for wider 406 wheel tires

any IGH you want, Even a Front derailleur and rear too if you wish, and a long list of options of bars
and whatnot, as they take common components ..

their newer Silk is a Disc Braked IGH frame that will even take the Gates Belt..

[PL hinges behind the BB, Silk folds in front of it, so chain tension or belt tension is un changed]

... looks to me to frequently fold for train use, the Silk would be better.. even if Chain Driven.

Belt option is cleaner as it wont need oiling. but it will cost more..

advantage to disc brake in these, is option of the 451 skinny tire wheel, ala Pocket Rocket, go fast,

and the 406 wheel to have set Up with perhaps Schalbe's studded tires
maybe a Dynohub for the long dark nights/ short days.

I have a Disc Brake Pocket Llama with a dyno hub in front, R'off IGH in the back ,
And their folding steering post.

Ive had 1 payment cars that cost less, until I drove It.

smallwheeler

+1 on the llama idea, fietsbob.

sweet ride, roger..

Ozonation

I have gone up and down such inclines and declines easily on my Brompton. I have taken my Brompton on hard packed gravel trails and it has handled quite capably. I have ridden over train tracks, around potholes, and off curbs. And I have ridden at night significantly with my Brompton. (I think your success at night riding is more dependent on the lighting you have then wheels per se.)

If slopes are your concern, I suggest you get the reduced gearing on the Brompton, which I have. The lowered gearing is also useful for riding into headwinds.

True, the Brompton may not be that great in winter - it would not be my first choice. Then again, I've ridden my fatbike with 3.8" diameter wheels - and despite just crushing through snow and ice - I still fall. If winter riding is a significant concern, you may want to explore multiple options.

You don't seem keen on considering a Brompton, despite what many other forum members have advised. I would suggest you at least try one - you may be surprised at how capable it is. If after trying it extensively and it doesn't work, great. But don't dismiss its many advantages too quickly, particularly its very efficient fold.

ttakata73

Wow, riding in snow: you got some cajones.
I recall riding my MTB in snow before (non studded) and it was ludicrous sliding everywhere.

I like Bromptons, but I would not feel comfortable riding one down that hill in snow since the Brompton has caliper brakes.
Snow and slush become ice and clogs things up.
Although V brakes work fine as you know from your MTB already; disc brakes are the best and as mentioned before, allow easy wheel changes.
You don't mention off-roading as much now, so I still say check out a Formula S18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNpSM...qS4VIEYu7YfPhg

I am now retracting my Bike Friday idea because the rear wheel folds under the frame and the steel frame is going to get ugly from rust.
If you have anything on the rear rack if will get crushed on a BF or you have to waste time taking it off on the train.
So you might prefer a side folding frame like a Dahon or Tern so you can keep things on the rack.

Just some opinions, let us know what you end up getting if the job comes through.