SmileSmile

Hi, I am new to this forum and I haven't ride a bike for many years. I want to order a folding bike as my first bike and learn to commute around NYC this summer. I do fear about riding with the cars but it is my goal to get over that fear. I am currently looking at the Citizen Tokyo and Citizen Miami folding bikes. I have been on Google for a bit searching hints of if I should get the 16" Tokyo or the 20" Miami. Do anyone know a good comparison between a 16" and a 20" folding bikes? I want to bike around the city and also use it to bike to school in fall. I am 5'2 and petite, so I'm a bit leaning towards the Tokyo (it also have more color choices and $30 cheapier). But my brother recommend me the 20" so he can use it too, and one of my friend said it'll be faster. So I am really not sure. Can anyone help me out a bit? Thanks in advance!

https://www.citizenbike.com/catalog.a...&product_id=10

https://www.citizenbike.com/catalog.a...1&product_id=1

tds101 

I've heard that the Citizen folding bikes aren't all that well made, as nice looking as they are. The Origami bikes are a better choice IMO: https://www.origamibicycles.com/

I'd give these a look, see if they work for you.

smallwheeler

i've owned a citizen tokyo. its not a good bike at all. in fact, i think for a person who hasnt been on a bike in a long time, owning a citizen bike could be a very discouraging experience. a 16" wheel bike would be better for train and bus commuting and are just about as fast as your legs are strong. if you dont need to get on the subway often, then a 20" bike might be better. my advice would be to look at craigslist for good deals on good quality bikes. below are a few that i just noticed in a quick search. they are all about half what they would cost retail (although probably more expensive than what you had in mind, its worth a little more money to get a good quality bike thats enjoyable to ride.) i didnt see any 16" bike though. a dahon curve is a good one that frequently pops up on c-list.

downtube:

https://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/bik/3776964339.html

dahon helios:

https://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/bik/3776118661.html

swift:

https://newyork.craigslist.org/que/bik/3784642302.html

SmileSmile

Hmm. I had already purchase the Citizen Tokyo 16". Since I mentioned that I have a tad-bit of fear biking on the roads, I am not looking for a speedy and expensive bike. I think I don't mind having a slow 16" bike and not super good quality as my first bike. I like the fact that its not going to be fast. I'm a beginner after all. My brother did said once I get the hang of commuting with a bike, then I should get something better. Thanks for both of your advance!

Edit: I am curious how tall you are smallwheeler. Because I am 5'2 and weight under 100 lbs, I thought a small bike would fit a small person. Or am I wrong about that?

zebede

I had an aluminium Citizen Bike in my shop for tune up this week end. While certainly not on par for quality and equipment with the more expensive bikes. It was quite safe and serviceable. After seeing this one, I would own one. Especially when compared to the heavy cheap bikes that it competes against in this price point such as the Walmart Schwinn. Enjoy your new bike the Tokyo looks like a lot of fun, keep it tuned up for safety and just ride.

smallwheeler

please dont be discouraged by my comments. i hope you will enjoy riding your new bike very much. your bro is right- you can always upgrade later if you want to! maybe you will become a folding bike fanatic like some of the folks on this forum...

yes, you're right, a small bike will fit a small person very well. usually, most folding bikes, even the ones with very small wheels, can be adjusted to fit most people short or tall.

btw, what color did you choose?

phillybill

There ok... I had a Miami , but it did not fit me all that well.

vmaniqui

well i may be too late recommending something but since you already ordered a tokyo i wish you all the best and fun. i used to have a tokyo myself and got rid of it for the following reasons : not the best quality out there, too slow (should be ok for you), too heavy (this is the major consideration you should have taken in as you will be hauling it a lot). the best out there for a 16" wheel bike maybe the dahon curve sl (i have one and love it).

if someone is asking for a recommendation regarding folding bike i always tell them to check CL as it has the best deal, also i try to sway them away from citizen bikes as they are slow and heavy. remember that when you buy a folding bike, one consideration is its weight as you will be folding it and carrying it. have fun with your bike and enjoy it. be careful riding your bike in NY city.

Elvis Shumaker

I reckon for the money that looks like a pretty fine and well thought out bike - the great colours would be the kicker for shallow old me. Baby blue or apple green.

In my experience I dont end up lugging my folders around too much, only really in or out of the house or car - and 30 lbs is more than doable. Regular bikes for that price are far heavier. And if you do ever get a new bike that Citizen will be a handy spare to have.

16 inch or smaller wheels just have to be the first choice for you at your height. Enjoy, and don't fear the traffic too much!

manniac

Hi. I have a citizen Tokyo but I'm in California so I can't tell you how it fares on NY traffic. For me it did well here despite the numerous negative comments I read on this forum, I bough it new this year and I think many people that talk down the Tokyo had bad experiences with older models or compare the experience with riding more expensive higher quality bikes. The Tokyo is a good entry level ride the only thing that was a bit annoying is the gearing is low and you spin a lot, but on a hill you will be grateful of the low gears so it all pans out. Get the comfort saddle if you have a chance.

1nterceptor

When I visited my brother in California I borrowed his Citizen Tokyo for a few rides, I thought they performed well.
I commute in New York city a lot, sometimes on my 16" wheeled Brompton folding bike. I don't think wheel size
dictates if you'll be slow or fast; it will be the engine(rider) and gearing I'm 5'8" and 200 lbs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUUCaoVUtEI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jea4lv48bDQ

Fenway

Citizen Bikes are of a better quality than department store and no name imported junk. They are functional and well made, albeit of heavy construction and bottom tier components. The hinge and fold design is reliable, but not as compact or strong as more modern offerings. If you are looking for an inexpensive entry level brand Citizen and Greenzone are a good start. I would recommend trying out an Origami Crane if you can afford the extra $100 to do so over the Citizen/Greenzone bikes. The frame weight, more compact fold, and better hinge design is a great step up with the Origami/Greenzone bikes, though their components are still around bottom tier.

If you do buy a Citizen/Origami, I recommend buying a set of Dahon frame magnets (~$7.00) to replace the stock ball socket locking mechanism which holds the bike together when folded, makes life much easier.

Ozonation

Who makes Origami bikes? Is it a design/product based on Dahon bikes?

Pinigis 

Who makes Origami bikes? Is it a design/product based on Dahon bikes?[/QUOTE]

We do! Origami is a small company based in Virginia. Our bikes are handmade in a small factory near Shanghai and are not based on Dahon bikes, but are our own.

SmileSmile

I picked the color Sour Apple. I was choosing between Sour Apple and Navy Blue. I decided to go with a bright color so I can stand out while riding the bike, instead of blending in with the cars.

And thank you to everyone that replied back. I was in a rush to make a decision because I am just excited about getting my first bike. I do know how to bike, I just never owned one.

momendo

I own a 2013 Citizen Tokyo Blue bike with brown seat. It's a well-made bike. The 16" wheels are small and folds fairly small considering the price range. As small as 31x22x12.5 inches if you pull the seat out and handlebars aside. It's a very pretty bike if you care about aesthetics and a low price point. Their website is well designed. Great price, affordable accessories, pretty, small but not Brompton small, durable, heavy, slow and stiff fold, good for 15mph or slower cycling.

sreten

Hi,



You are not that small that a 16" has much advantage over a 20". If your young,
lightweight and by default reasonably fit you can go very fast compared to most,
and won't need the low gears much. The same gearing on both bikes essentially
means the 20" is geared to go 25% faster than the 16" for a given pedal speed /
cadence, which is quite significant, about 2 gears.

Once you get used to the bike (which doesn't take long for the young) I think
you'll find it quite a bit undergeared to suit you. At 50+ my 20" tops out at
around 17mph long term before the pedal cadence gets too much, and I can
cruise at 15mph with the wind. I think I would find the 16" undergeared,
as 15mph would not be cruising pedal cadence with 16" wheels.

(My folder has the same 48 front / 14 to 28 rear gearing. It's 33 to 66
gear inches, same gearing with 16" is a rather geriatric 26.5 to 53,
in comparison my 14 speed road bike is 40 to 100 gear inches.)

At under a 100 lbs, lugging a 30 lb bike up a hill the weight is
is lot more significant than the same weight with me lugging
my 170 pounds up a hill. I don't need a light bike, you might
not, but you'd certainly notice a light one more than I would.

rgds, sreten.

P.S. Take that illustration with a pinch of salt. In reality the 16"
models can have lower bottom brackets and thus the right seat
height is a little lower that the 20" model, depends how much
they modify essentially the same frame for the two models.

DVC45

I'd go for Origami instead.

edwong3

You know, I am of the opinion that too much emphasis is given to having "high" gears if in fact the rider is wanting a bike to cruise around, and not race.

Funny thing is that my Greenzone VE's top gearing is just under 70" but I find myself usually moving along at a modest but comfortable 10-11 mph for normal cruising. I've had the thing at up to 22 mph on flat ground on a couple of occasions but I really prefer rolling along at half that speed.

The Tokyo's gearing is just fine for normal bike riding in the urban jungle, and as another poster pointed out, the low gearing would probably be very much appreciated on the hills.

And no disrespect meant but many of us here on the forum are not exactly young pups any more so I take with a grain of salt claims of average cruising speeds in the higher teens or even mid teens in some cases on a folding bike. Like I said, I've had my bike in the low 20s but for very short bursts of speed.

To the OP, enjoy your new Citizen Tokyo. I do advise that you take it to a bike shop, and have them go through it just to be sure everything is as it should be. The money spent will be well worth it to give you a bike that will perform well for it's intended use.

Good luck,
Ed

alexaschwanden

Save up your money and go for a Tern link c7, great quality and comfortable.

Azreal911

smilesmile ordered one already so it's on the way. It should be more than adequate for a beginning bike the Tern c7 is in a entirely different class and also at least 2 1/2 times more than the Tokyo. I'd let smilesmile enjoy this bike first and see if they want to graduate to the next level instead of jumping onto the more expensive stuff. My coworkers alone think I'm crazy when I tell them the price of my Tern Uno, and that's not even any expensive model!

And with gear inches from 23 to 46 it's more like a slow fun cruise nothing drastic and no hills will be a problem, great for a beginner which I don't need pushing 70 gear inches because any slight incline you will feel it when its up there. At least if they do want to go faster they just need to take it to any bike store and change out the cassette and done.

cplager

Sound advice.

sreten

Hi,

I'm 50+ and my 20" folder is 33 to 66 gear inches. I can cruise with
the wind at 15mph. Pushing with the wind about 17/18 mph. Downhill
there is simply no point pedalling much once you hit about 20mph.
No wind I'm looking at ~ 12 mph. Headwind down to about 9 mph.
Hills (+headwind) are the killer for the older, below 7 mph I walk.
Though I have fitted nice tyres, which are 1 to 2 mph faster,
and roll much better at all speeds, especially going slower.

The 16" is 26.5 to 53 gear inches and that is granny gearing for a
young and fit person using it 5 days a week for commuting, though
it would be fine for the older and occasional recreational bike rider.

rgds, sreten.

My road bike is 40" to 100" but still goes up hills easier than
the folder does, both in bottom gear. Mid teens on the flat
with no wind is not difficult. Standing is far more effective.

On the near flat but with a good tailwind I've topped out the folder
at 22 mph, short bursts just to see how fast I can go on the limit.

Downhill, tailwind and top gear I've hit 33 mph on the road bike.

edwong3

The Tokyo's gear range is actually 23" to 46", not 26.5" to 53" so that is probably WAY PAST geriatric for you. That makes for easy, low effort pedaling. Not a bad thing for cruising around.

ED

sreten

Hi,

If so its appallingly undergeared for the young and fit.

I just knocked off 20% off my 6 speed 33" / 66" range 47
mm tyre 20" folder. I find it a good range for my 50+ age.

Checking I get 24" to 48" with 47mm tyres, so that would be
my bike with two extra lower gears and the top two missing.
Still its too low for a daily commuter and a regular rider IMO.

That would be fine for someone my age who does not ride
regularly. When I started riding again I initially struggled
with any real headwinds and relatively small hills.
Now I can do both and 33" is about right where if you can't
manage the hill it is easier and less stressful to walk up it.

rgds, sreten.

Good gearing lets you exploit most
conditions to your best advantage.