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  1. #1
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    Skunk on a folder..... ?

    Heyas all, just joined this community after deciding to get back into biking with my wife and daughter.

    My daughter (who is 8) won a bmx style bike at her school for perfect attendance, and outstanding grades. My wife wants a boulevard cruiser style bike, however she's petite at 5'3" tall. And I'm 5'8 and 195 (Yeah, I know I can lost 10 pounds, but thats why I wanna get off my @$$ and ride, besides being behind my wife watching her ride has it's advantages. 8D heeeheheeheeee.)

    I started looking into folding bikes online as i'm not very fond of putting a rack on our vw turbo (buying in 3 weeks, our only car, it's the wife's). And needed to stow them in the back. However seeing the other 2 are getting standard bikes that won't fold (Well I can fold them once using a very large sledgehammer, or running over them with a dump truck, but getting them unfolded after that would be rather unpleasant.)

    Ok, so I guess a rear rack is on order for the 2006 vw new beetle turbo S... mumbles, and the 2 femmes here have their bike ideas, but then there's a decision to be made by me. I surfed Amazon for the 16 and 20 inch white or silver grey painted(first colour preference, but open to any colour foldable bikes and seen quite a few video's by Dahon, and Brompton(wow $$$ pricey), but likes the look of the low-slung middle bar. Seen the bikes by Shimano, named the City I think and liked the full suspension idea.

    (Whispers, reason I like the full suspension idea is, I'm on worker's comp for an arm nerve injury, and and very hard jarring from the handle grips would be Very painfull for me, hence my asking for a good suspension.)
    But, aren't there a tire called Apples something, that are so cushioned, that I can install them on any wheel for a soft ride, gahhhh so many ideas.... brain cramp, owieeee.


    But what caught my eye, was a Usa company called Downtube, and their white fs model. Wow full suspension, white colour, and priced right in my ballpark. Tho my wife balked at the nearly $600.00 prices. Ok sad face here.....

    Wife wants me to get a $179 Wal-mart Special, but I don't want my first folder to crumble to a pile of rust or into ruined bike parts after a ride at Valley Forge bike paths, mainly paved, with a few dirt-gravel-stone sections with the occasional lawyer jogging past yelling into his blue-toothed ear piece.

    So deciding perhaps between a Shimano with the full suspension, or the Downtube FS9, higher priced, but if i can find someone selling one a few states away, I can drive to go get it.




    I do have a few questions tho... Which brand do you all recommend?

    I'm mainly looking for a good quality new or used folder with a full suspension that won't fall apart, or sell a kidney for. Altho selling a kidney may free up more cash later..... after seeing how expensive some of the foldables can top out at.

    I'm local to Philadelphia, but I can drive a considerable distance-wise for the right bike. And with it being the summer, can anyone say 'Roadtrip for a Folder in a VW?'

    Kindly let me know, and I'll reply Asap.

    Kimonoskunk,
    Deviant-Artist and forum stalker....

  2. #2
    Senior Member Pinigis's Avatar
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    Origami Cricket and Mantis are both full suspension bikes at under $350.00

  3. #3
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    Ahhhh thank you for the quick reply....
    Are these good bikes? Customisable?

    KSkunk

  4. #4
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    Rouse 'Bill Fold' and/or look up what he already posted, he did more mods to his Origami than I did to mine. The folks on the Downtube thread will tell you why the Downtubes are closer to standard, and thus easier to customize, than the Origami. The tires you're talking about are called "Big Apple".

    Since your wife is short, although a bit taller than I am, may I recommend a folding bike for her as well? 20" wheel bike is very comfy upright riding position instead of having to sprawl out over a full-size Walmart frame. Origami doesn't stock a 'cruiser' lookalike bike though, she will probably better like the looks at Citizen Bikes and get one near the $179 price point. But Citizen doesn't stock a decent suspension bike so you will have to shop elsewhere. Oh well. I don't think that shipping costs combine on bulky items like bikes, anyway.

    One thing you DO want to get at Wal-Mart is the Schwinn adjustable bottle holder. It's great to be able to buy and bring whatever drink you want instead of whatever bottles HAPPEN to fit the fixed diameter of the other bottle holders.

  5. #5
    Senior Member GeorgePaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimonoskunk View Post
    But, aren't there a tire called Apples something, that are so cushioned, that I can install them on any wheel for a soft ride, gahhhh so many ideas.... brain cramp, owieeee.
    Schwalbe Big Apple tires are balloon tires that, while heavy, provide lots of cushioning. And I think that you should focus on bicycles with front suspension only, rather than full suspension. The rear suspension won't help you much with your wrists, but will add weight and bulk.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Pinigis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimonoskunk View Post
    Ahhhh thank you for the quick reply....
    Are these good bikes? Customisable?

    KSkunk
    The Origami bikes use standard-sized coponents so they are easy to modify if you wish.

  7. #7
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    FYI:

    1. the message from Pinigis is an advertisement. he is the seller.

    2. Citizen brand bikes ARE "Walmart quality" bicycles.

    3. Schwalbe Big Apples are not heavy.

    4. Philly craigslist is almost always loaded with good buys on high quality used folding bikes.

    http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/3861841975.html

    http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/3855818543.html

    http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/3859564894.html

    5. Americans have forgotten how to haggle and bargain. don't be a rube. always offer 30% less than what the seller is asking with the idea that you will be happy to pay 20% less.
    Last edited by smallwheeler; 06-10-13 at 01:47 PM. Reason: 5

  8. #8
    Senior Member Pinigis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
    FYI:

    1. the message from Pinigis is an advertisement. he is the seller.
    Not an advertisement, Just information. I own the Origami Bicycle Company and I am happy to answer any questions you may have.

  9. #9
    Senior Member snafu21's Avatar
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    3. Schwalbe Big Apples are not heavy:

    They're not 'light', either:

    -------------------------------

    Durano 20": 195 grams

    Kojak 20": 230 grams

    Big Apple 20": 590 grams- about the same as a 26" MTB/City tyre or two and a half 20" Kojak tyres.

    Source: www.schwalbe.co.uk

    -------------------------------

    The usual suspect 20" OEM folder tyre like a Kenda Kwest is about 300 grams in 40-406. Weight though, is not always the primary choice in tyre selection or we would all be skidding about on Duranos.

    Some of the 'nicest' tyres for folders and 26" wheel bikes are the old skule amber-wall types like the Kenda Kwest or now, Dahon Rotolo.

    These leave the tread compound off the carcass at the side-walls, so there is less mass and a little more sidewall flex for the same air volume. Deeper tread on the shoulders works on gravel slaloms. Sweet to ride, I opine.
    Last edited by snafu21; 06-10-13 at 03:04 PM.
    - every mile of road has two miles of ditch -

  10. #10
    New usename ThorUSA brakemeister's Avatar
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    well well...... me thinks that Origamis are as easily upgradet as many Terns or Dahons .... just sayin .... of course I am a seller too ...just for good measure .... lol ...

    of course there is no stopping ..modding these bikes ... give me a couple 2 or 3 thousand dollar and I have parts for them ...to make you 3 miles faster on avaerage ... but of so bling bling ...

    and of course also stuff which works real nice in day to day operations... like klickfix frame mounts and accessories like baskets and and and ( Origami has those too ?? )

    Anyhow
    Smallwheeler found some quick good choices.... unfortunatyely like ebay and craigslist those prices are pretty up there, considering that I sell you a new bike for the same ( free shipping ) ..lol ( or almost the same )

    Big fat heavy cruiser for the petite lady ..... forget it... she will be so bored with that bike, she will use it 3 times....
    get her something nice and maybe u have a chance to keep her on a bike much longer ...

    Not a bad idea to look for used bikes... versus walmart crap .... yeah they sell a folder, based on my design 30 years ago ..but its just looking like the one its not even close to the performance or weight from my old design ... ( they cant bend crmo tubes the way the frame "loops" around.... so its very heavy mild steel )

    Anyhow ..lurk a little and find what u like best ...
    A nice Tern D8 would be a good bike....

    Big apples are somewhat heavy compared to high performance small tires. but they offer a surprising good rolling characteristics, you can pump them up or ride them with lower pressure for a sooooth ride. Not taht much more weight than cheapo tires actually...

    You will most likely find that the position on a folder will be better to your hands and forearms than a regular bike and u should not have any problems

    best Thor

  11. #11
    Senior Member GeorgePaul's Avatar
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    Thanks for the numbers, snafu. It's obvious from holding these tires in one's hand that they're quite heavy. I'm amazed that we're even arguing about this.

  12. #12
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    i dont think it would come as a surprise to anyone that a 2" wide ballon tire is going to be heavier than the lightest racing slicks produced by a manufacturer in a given size. the interest of the OP was to find some effective suspension for his ride. a more relevant comparison would be to standard 1.5" and 1.75" road tires or other 2" tires.

    big apple 20" x 2" 406 weighs 495g

    http://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_ti...ires/big_apple

    marathon 20" x 1.5" 406 = 530g

    marathon 20" x 1.75" 406 = 640g

    http://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_ti...s/marathon_420

    road cruiser 20" x 1.75" 406 = 545g

    http://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_ti...s/road_cruiser

    and another excellent fat tire from a different manufacturer:

    maxxis hookworm 20" x 1.95" weighs 720g

    http://www.maxxis.com/Bicycle/BMX/Hookworm.aspx

    the point is, ballon tires have evolved. they are no longer the massive, slow, heavy tires one would find on a 1958 Schwinn beach cruiser.

    more interesting and relevant info that may interest the OP:

    http://www.balloonbikes.com/en/

  13. #13
    New usename ThorUSA brakemeister's Avatar
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    the marathons are the plus with extra puncture protection ... but it shows that the big apple are comparable not that bad

    best thor

  14. #14
    Senior Member snafu21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgePaul View Post
    Thanks for the numbers, snafu. It's obvious from holding these tires in one's hand that they're quite heavy. I'm amazed that we're even arguing about this.
    Mass is mass. Sometimes mass is good; on gravity-powered vehicles like downhill MTB's. Sometimes it's bad; on human-powered city bikes which stop and start every 500 metres. Unsprung rotating mass is Very Bad, it takes energy to rotate it, and more (comparatively) to lift it out of road indentations, whereas; if it's not rotating and sprung (above suspension) these two energy sappers are not present. Adding twice the mass to a road bike rim (Kenda Kwest v. big Apple for instance) especially as it rotates more per mile than a 700c rim is not optimal, - especially if it is possible not to at the purchase stage and there are no further obvious benefits.

    Fat tyres have shortcomings compared to sprung mechanical suspension, especially in terms of acceleration, and sudden compression. Lower 'comfort' pressures can and do introduce pinch flats in urban riding, and compromise acceleration.

    The final question is: If the only constraint is an arm/hand injury, and sprung bikes are in budget, why would anyone compromise their whole cycling experience by fitting slow, heavy tyres?

    A folder with an upright riding position, (thanks Thor) with an adjustable stem to tilt the bars back toward the rider to to relieve hand pressure, medium pressure tyres (40-60 PSI) coupled with damped spring front suspension is a much more flexible and sporty option for hand/arm injuries than fitting Big Apples to an average folder, as we all will agree.

    So, on a budget, that's an alloy-framed, (lower mass) customisable DownTube FS or similar, with adjustable handlebar stem, front sprung suspension with 2" or so of fork travel, medium pressure tyres for handling and rear swing-arm shock damping. As Mr SkunkWerke has already divined, and I have already ridden, with great pleasure.

    My work here is done. :-)


    ~~~ Ignore this ~~~

    The big, fat, low pressure tyre versus the lighter medium pressure tyre with suspension argument was dispelled by Dr Alex Moulton, fifty years ago. Rotating unsprung mass is Jolly Bad, he proved, with formulae.

    A bike designed by an engineer with a Doctorate (DownTube, Dahon, Moulton), with suspension, is scientifically preferred by some, rather than whacking a pair of overweight Schwalbe fatties onto a super-market boat anchor, letting the air out, and praying that the guys on the internet with their love of heavy-weight German rubber-wear are right.

    Ya pays ya money, and ya takes the pain. Science is your new friend.
    Last edited by snafu21; 06-11-13 at 02:06 AM.
    - every mile of road has two miles of ditch -

  15. #15
    Senior Member badmother's Avatar
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    "Science is your new friend."

    Got yourself worked up there! Is it raining where you are? Most of what is presented here (BF) would not qualify as science, BA`s with low preassure does not automatically lead to pinchflats (but ignorant riders/owners do). Most of the low budget slow rolling bikes I`ve had my hands on is not rolling slow becouse of heavy tyres (unless they are knobbys).

    Suspension: Some riders are so light that the (cheap) suspension on theyr bikes has got no effect. Some riders are so fat that the suspension (or BA`s) is just a fraction of the total weight and also bottoms out almost constantly.

    We should tell others what we like and why- and what we do not like and why. What is right and wrong for others is almost impossible to say (especially over the internet).

    And lets face it.. some peopel can not be "saved".. Edit: (Nothing to do with the op just a general comment about the "fight" for what is "right or wrong").
    Last edited by badmother; 06-11-13 at 03:17 AM.
    °Empty drums make a lot of noice... (Old Hungarian proverb).

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    It would be a pity if anyone reading this were to be put off Big Apples; while they won't do what suspension can, they are great all round tyres for bike paths, cobblestones and stony tracks. 'Serious' cyclists (present company excepted) may poo poo them - but oddly I rarely see this genus on droveroads, in foul weather, or loading up their shopping at the supermarket*. Look at them as a suitable tyre for leisure and utility riding. They do absorb quite a bit of road vibration, and they can take the edge off the squirrelyness of some small-wheelers. And no, they are not slow, or squishy.

    As an aside, the 20 x 2.0 size does indeed weigh 495 g** - and this is lighter than many a run-of-the-mill 1.75 wide tyre.

    One disadvantage to be aware of is that you may have to deflate the tyre to fit or remove, due to less clearance in the frame.

    Oh, and welcome, Kimonoskunk

    ----------

    * and when I do, they never say hi, so screw 'em

    ** yes, I really did weigh one once - sad isn't it?
    Last edited by Elvis Shumaker; 06-11-13 at 04:20 AM.

  17. #17
    Senior Member snafu21's Avatar
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    ^^^ Yes, cannot disagree with that. Though some say that these John Deere tyres need to be crow-bar 'd in under the fenders.

    Anyway, its no good asking me any 'serious' rider stuff. My main wheels are a Dahon Vitesse, with fenders.

    And yes, it is raining here.
    Last edited by snafu21; 06-11-13 at 05:26 AM.
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  18. #18
    jur
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    Cheap suspension cannot hold a candle to Big Apples. Too many disadvantages.
    * Suspension is a LOT heavier than the weight penalty of BA.
    * Cheap suspension is usually not adjustable, especially the damping, leaving you with a bouncy energy sapping ride.
    * Cheap suspension will usually have poor tolerance, which results in sloppy frame movement. Very Bad.
    * The unsprung weight of any suspension is much bigger than the unsprung weight of BAs, which is zero.

    Then there is the cost argument. A bike cheap enough to fit an entry-level budget, will generally be of poorer quality than a same priced bike without suspension. More welds, more parts, more moving parts.

    As for rotating mass, that is a red herring. The rim, spokes and hub are a much bigger fraction of the total weight especially in a cheap bike, than the few 100g of a set of big apples. Not to mention the vastly bigger amount of mass of the rider that has to be accelerated. Light wheels are of course nicer than concrete donuts but let's not lose perspective here while discussing the merits of BAs.

    Big Apples are streets ahead. And don't be misled by the rather silly argument about pinch flats. If you are pinch flatting Big Apples, put more air in, they will still be cushy. The pressure required depends on the mass of the rider.

  19. #19
    The Recumbent Quant cplager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snafu21 View Post
    Unsprung rotating mass is Very Bad, it takes energy to rotate it, and more (comparatively) to lift it out of road indentations
    Oy vey.

    O.k. Let's actually put some numbers here.

    At worst, for accelerating ONLY, the mass of the tire counts twice its normal mass (this assumes the mass of the tire is entirely at it's largest radius, but this isn't a horrible approximation). The heaviest tire smallwheeler listed above was 720g. 720g * 2 (tires) * 2 (rotation) = 2.9 Kg or 6.3 lbs.

    If you are tiny (say, 100 lbs) and you have a light folding bike (rest, say 25 lbs), this is less than a 5% effect (and we are comparing the heaviest tire to an 0 weight tire). If you compare Big Apples to something half their weight, you're talking about 250g difference * 4 = 1 Kg which is less than a 2% effect. And that's assuming you're tiny. For me and my bike, I've got a factor of two on those numbers, so wheel weight is a factor of 2 less important. AND this is only true for accelerating, not riding at a constant speed and not climbing. As far as road imperfections, it's the total (bike + rider) weight, not wheel weight that matters.

    If you're not racing, tire weight is virtually irrelevant. What isn't irrelevant is rolling resistance and this can make a big difference to noticeable speeds.

    To the OP, I'm not a big fan of suspension on upright (as opposed to recumbent) bicycles. It is often lossy and as badmother points out, may not work well if you are on one end or the other of the weight spectrum. That being said, it might help for the reason you are looking. Being more upright (less weight on your hands) will help a lot; thick gel gloves helped me too).

    I'd recommend against the $200 Ebay folders. Used bikes are a great way to go if you or a friend know about bikes. I like my Origami Mantis, but you'd hardly recognize it now as it is (and I never rode it in its original configuration).

    Cheers,
    Charles
    http://Charles.Plager.net
    http://RecumbentQuant.blogspot.com

  20. #20
    Senior Member snafu21's Avatar
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    "tire weight is virtually irrelevant."

    Unless you have to carry the bike. :-)

    Whoa! Isn't that a bit like going up hill? Do we get the extra half a kilo up there without an increase in energy expenditure? Do you have anti-matter tyres, Charles? Actually half a kilo is less than the weight of a full water bottle. But, still, yannow....

    "I'm not a big fan of suspension on upright (as opposed to recumbent) bicycles. It is often lossy'

    That's what Jur said in his eloquent list of generalisations. Come on Charles, you know that bouncing around on a fat floppy tyre heats the air inside it through compression and flexes the tyre wall. That's a bit, um, er lossy, isn't it? Stiffen up, man!

    Oh you have. That suspension fork on your 'bent looks just like the one on a DownTube/Origami. You see, you know you like suspension, really. No fat heavy tyres on that.

    Anyway. None of this matters. Who cares what the OP rides? We want him to be happy. He can have fat, heavy, lossy, flexy tyres full of hot air instead of suspension if he wants. :-)

    Actually, in response the criticisms, obviously unfounded, that Big Apples were fat, heavy and slow, Schwalbe brought out Big Apple Liteskins a while ago. Anyone weighed those?

    (Hi Jur)
    Last edited by snafu21; 06-11-13 at 08:38 AM.
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  21. #21
    New usename ThorUSA brakemeister's Avatar
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    lets just throw this in the mix.... a good mtb suspension fork is between 600 and 1200 dlr....
    how much does a suspension fork cost, when its on a whole bike for under 400 bucks....

    I love front suspension ..but I almost insist on the suspension being adjustable, otherwise you are schwinging and bouncing around and loose much energie, much more than big apples .... and again big apples are nicer than they appear on paper, they are good tires.

  22. #22
    The Recumbent Quant cplager's Avatar
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    Hi Snafu,

    Quote Originally Posted by snafu21 View Post
    "tire weight is virtually irrelevant."

    Unless you have to carry the bike. :-)

    Whoa! Isn't that a bit like going up hill? Do we get the extra half a kilo up there without an increase in energy expenditure? Do you have anti-matter tyres, Charles? Actually half a kilo is less than the weight of a full water bottle. But, still, yannow....
    The point is that tire weight is no worse than weight anywhere on the bike or even the rider for climbing. And weight doesn't affect bicycle performance much at all on level ground.

    Getting big tires is probably lighter overall than suspension, so there you go. And for most of us, if we're going to worry about a couple hundred grams, we should pay attention to what we're eating instead of what tires we're riding.

    (Anti-matter is affected by gravity the same way matter is, so it would not add negative mass to the tires. It would cause the tires to explode when they touched the air or road (or anything else), so for that reason, they wouldn't ride very smoothly at all... )


    Quote Originally Posted by snafu21 View Post
    "I'm not a big fan of suspension on upright (as opposed to recumbent) bicycles. It is often lossy'

    That's what Jur said in his eloquent list of generalisations. Come on Charles, you know that bouncing around on a fat floppy tyre heats the air inside it through compression and flexes the tyre wall. That's a bit, um, er lossy, isn't it? Stiffen up, man!
    First, you're now talking about rolling resistance which can make a big difference. Second, you can have heavy tires with low rolling resistance and light tires with high rolling resistance. So, again, tire weight isn't terribly relevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by snafu21 View Post
    Oh you have. That suspension fork on your 'bent looks just like the one on a DownTube/Origami. You see, you know you like suspension, really. No fat heavy tyres on that.
    On my Origami converted 'bent, it should look exactly like it does on an Origami Mantis, because it is. But there are two big differences between uprights and my bents:

    1) On an upright, you can lift yourself out of the saddle going over bumps. You can't do that nearly as easily on a 'bent.

    2) Pedaling on my bike is almost completely orthogonal to the direction of compression of the suspension, so it is much less lossy. My hybrid with front suspension, by contrast, bounces horribly when I'm really mashing on it. And as I did point out, it still may be what the OP wants given his condition.

    For a folding bike, weight matters because you carry the bike folded. Reducing bike weight (and rotating weight) is a common goal among bicyclists wanting to go faster. It just isn't a terribly reasonable one in most cases.

    In any case, we agree on the most important:

    Quote Originally Posted by snafu21 View Post
    We want him to be happy.
    If suspension makes him happy (and it might), then he should get that. If BAs will make him happy, then that's what he should do. (Or even both.) The rub comes where he really needs to ride different things to figure out what works for him.

    Cheers,
    Charles
    http://Charles.Plager.net
    http://RecumbentQuant.blogspot.com

  23. #23
    jur
    jur is offline
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    that bouncing around on a fat floppy tyre heats the air inside it through compression...
    Tyre pressure, temperature and volume remains essentially constant when riding and bouncing. There is sidewall flexing that heats the sidewall, but no compression.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfamelba View Post
    Hi Yan,

    What I mean is to turn left or right there is a little resistance before the handlebar turns. Then when straightening up you can feel when you are in the straight ahead position. I could compare it to a balance control on a hi-fi where the centre position as a detent or the aperture control on a traditional slr camera where there is resistance moving from each f-stop position.

    Regards, Andrew.
    Quote Originally Posted by brakemeister View Post
    lets just throw this in the mix.... a good mtb suspension fork is between 600 and 1200 dlr....
    how much does a suspension fork cost, when its on a whole bike for under 400 bucks....

    I love front suspension ..but I almost insist on the suspension being adjustable, otherwise you are schwinging and bouncing around and loose much energie, much more than big apples .... and again big apples are nicer than they appear on paper, they are good tires.
    Quote Originally Posted by cplager View Post
    Hi Snafu,



    The point is that tire weight is no worse than weight anywhere on the bike or even the rider for climbing. And weight doesn't affect bicycle performance much at all on level ground.

    Getting big tires is probably lighter overall than suspension, so there you go. And for most of us, if we're going to worry about a couple hundred grams, we should pay attention to what we're eating instead of what tires we're riding.

    (Anti-matter is affected by gravity the same way matter is, so it would not add negative mass to the tires. It would cause the tires to explode when they touched the air or road (or anything else), so for that reason, they wouldn't ride very smoothly at all... )




    First, you're now talking about rolling resistance which can make a big difference. Second, you can have heavy tires with low rolling resistance and light tires with high rolling resistance. So, again, tire weight isn't terribly relevant.



    On my Origami converted 'bent, it should look exactly like it does on an Origami Mantis, because it is. But there are two big differences between uprights and my bents:

    What's a bent?


    1) On an upright, you can lift yourself out of the saddle going over bumps. You can't do that nearly as easily on a 'bent.

    2) Pedaling on my bike is almost completely orthogonal to the direction of compression of the suspension, so it is much less lossy. My hybrid with front suspension, by contrast, bounces horribly when I'm really mashing on it. And as I did point out, it still may be what the OP wants given his condition.

    For a folding bike, weight matters because you carry the bike folded. Reducing bike weight (and rotating weight) is a common goal among bicyclists wanting to go faster. It just isn't a terribly reasonable one in most cases.

    In any case, we agree on the most important:



    If suspension makes him happy (and it might), then he should get that. If BAs will make him happy, then that's what he should do. (Or even both.) The rub comes where he really needs to ride different things to figure out what works for him.

    Cheers,
    Charles
    Bingo, you said it best there..... heeee. I believe a full suspension will make me happiest with the BA's installed. If anyone wishes me to try other bikes, I may, whether they are hardtails, front, or full suspended bikes, with the option of having the BA's installed.

    Quote Originally Posted by KlibanQat View Post
    Rouse 'Bill Fold' and/or look up what he already posted, he did more mods to his Origami than I did to mine. The folks on the Downtube thread will tell you why the Downtubes are closer to standard, and thus easier to customize, than the Origami. The tires you're talking about are called "Big Apple".

    Since your wife is short, although a bit taller than I am, may I recommend a folding bike for her as well? 20" wheel bike is very comfy upright riding position instead of having to sprawl out over a full-size Walmart frame. Origami doesn't stock a 'cruiser' lookalike bike though, she will probably better like the looks at Citizen Bikes and get one near the $179 price point. But Citizen doesn't stock a decent suspension bike so you will have to shop elsewhere. Oh well. I don't think that shipping costs combine on bulky items like bikes, anyway.

    Actually I think I have talked her into looking at folders with me.

    One thing you DO want to get at Wal-Mart is the Schwinn adjustable bottle holder. It's great to be able to buy and bring whatever drink you want instead of whatever bottles HAPPEN to fit the fixed diameter of the other bottle holders.
    Ok, will definately check those out. Thank you for the tip.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinigis View Post
    The Origami bikes use standard-sized coponents so they are easy to modify if you wish.

  25. #25
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    After surfing these forums a good bit, I can say I honestly learned quite a bit, and even some physics (wooo science \o/. )
    Also read other posts by Paul and was impressed with how he responded and dealt with some issues other customers had, amd I think it's great the owners of companies like Paul, Brakemeister, and Dr. Yan are full on posters here not only hoping to make a few bucks, but to offer advice when they can give it.

    Like I just mentioned above, I may have converted my wife to folders, and now planning on taking a small trip down to Paul's Origami store, might be mid-august or such, as my Worker's Comp case was in front of a judge, but he granted the defense another continuance, forcing me to wait yet another block of time.

    Was wondering if Paul could allow me and wife to try a few bikes before we buy? I will contact Paul a few days before I can come down in a few weeks time, warning him, giggles.

    And whomever thought there were anti-matter tires out already, can you say Warp Speed, or Ludacrist Speed? (know where that quote came from?)

    Thank you all for the great replies, and Paul for how you handled yourself with responding to posters and other customers querries has now gained you a family of customers. Thank you, I don't feel bad or wary spending my cash here, to get riding again.

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