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  1. #1
    Senior Member Still Pedaling's Avatar
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    Mando Footloose?

    I just recently came across the Mando Footloose folding bike. All I could find is info on a pre-production model. Does anyone know if they are in production yet? It sure looks awesome, but I can only imagine that it would come with a hefty price tag.

  2. #2
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    Hi,

    The utter inanity of :

    "Remove the HMI and the bike automatically locks, meaning any
    potential thieves will need to use pedal force alone to get away."

    It has no chain ! Not that that has occurred to the copy writer.

    And this nonsense :

    "An Electronic Control Unit (ECU) will monitor your terrain via
    embedded sensors, adjusting the gears automatically so you
    don’t waste energy - be it electrical or sweat-inducing."

    There are clearly no gears.

    The bike is utter nonsense, whilst a chain is 95% efficient here you are looking
    at best 25% efficiency pedalled alternator to a motor drive, probably a lot less.

    A cluelessly specified / described "bike" of no design
    merit whatsoever, and very far from being "awesome".

    rgds, sreten.

    If they ever make such a bad bike it will priced as
    a small run for the very rich and totally clueless.
    Last edited by sreten; 07-13-13 at 03:33 PM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    Designed by Mark Sanders

    http://www.mandofootloose.com/eng/product/design.asp

    I would not discount it that quickly. The range figure in the spec sheet suggests that it is a plug-in, that is, you charge at night and use during the day. Pedal to wheel efficiency can be significantly lower than a chain but the energy storage can compensate. You accumulate energy in downhill and flat ride and use it in uphill or acceleration.

    Electrical 'transmission' is a old and tested concept http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_...iesel-electric
    Happier than a camel on wednesday.

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    As fas as I know it has other issues:

    - 21.7 kg

    - Singapore price: S$5,800 (US$4,660.13)

    More info here: http://bicycledesign.net/2012/09/man...hybrid-e-bike/
    Last edited by Carlos71; 07-13-13 at 06:13 PM.

  5. #5
    Banned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamtsa View Post
    Designed by Mark Sanders
    Hi,

    Yes and full of the pretentious crap of the talentless that panders to
    the rich and clueless with expensive and ultimately pointless toys.

    rgds, sreten.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Still Pedaling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sreten View Post
    Hi,

    Yes and full of the pretentious crap of the talentless that panders to
    the rich and clueless with expensive and ultimately pointless toys.

    rgds, sreten.
    I feel that way at times, depending on my mood. But I wonder -- would you feel that way if you won the lottery or perhaps the Publisher's Clearinghouse Sweepstakes? I know I won't. Man if I had the money I would love to indulge in some of those "ultimately pointless toys".



    Wayne

  7. #7
    Senior Member Still Pedaling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos71 View Post
    As fas as I know it has other issues:

    - 21.7 kg

    - Singapore price: S$5,800 (US$4,660.13)

    More info here: http://bicycledesign.net/2012/09/man...hybrid-e-bike/
    That's a lot of do-ray-me, but hey -- if you have the money, why not.

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    Please read the comment thread on bicycledesign.net. It may not be as inefficient as sreten proclaimed. Sure, Mando could've done a better job translating the information, but as an enthusiast I'd rather judge Footloose on its design and engineering. The bike is obviously aimed at a different customer base and use cases, and hence the innovative solution (fly-by-wire). I happen to believe that once the price point of the technology drops to a more accessible level, many e-bikes/pedelecs will adopt a similar system.

    And yes, the bike is in production. It's currently available on in Korea (for about US$4000) and Singapore (for about US$4600). I've seen a couple eBay sellers advertising it for US$5500 including shipping.

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    And another thing to consider. Once the battery is dead you'll have to PUSH (literally) the bike, as it is unable to run without batteries. In this case a Gocycle should be a better choice but it doesn't fold.

    Checking the range, efficiency seems to be about 50%? (30 km without pedaling and 45 km pedaling).
    Last edited by Carlos71; 07-16-13 at 01:49 PM.

  10. #10
    New usename ThorUSA brakemeister's Avatar
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    somebody did the math .... besides the theoretical approach from the sellers ( and designers) and came to about 50 % isch.... now a regular old chain is about 95 isch ... or double .... meaning you have to peddle double as fast or hard to get the same distance as a normal bike .... than add the weight of that beauty ... rougly double than a normal bike .... you get the idea ? And yes if the battery os down there is nothing which moves the bike .... wonder if you can peddle standing still for an hour and than keeping peddling you might make it the next 5 miles before the battery is down again ....

    hmmm ???
    It sure is a looker though
    :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by brakemeister View Post
    .... wonder if you can peddle standing still for an hour and than keeping peddling you might make it the next 5 miles before the battery is down again ....
    Wait! Maybe what we have here is... the first Spinning-folding bike!

  12. #12
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brakemeister View Post
    somebody did the math .... besides the theoretical approach from the sellers ( and designers) and came to about 50 % isch.... now a regular old chain is about 95 isch ... or double .... meaning you have to peddle double as fast or hard to get the same distance as a normal bike ....
    '

    Actually it can be 100% or even higher. The battery provides the extra power. This is why they mention 'range' in the spec. You charge it at home and then have 30-45km of very good user experience. After that go slow or call a taxi.
    Happier than a camel on wednesday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kamtsa View Post
    '

    Actually it can be 100% or even higher. The battery provides the extra power. This is why they mention 'range' in the spec. You charge it at home and then have 30-45km of very good user experience. After that go slow or call a taxi.
    Not really, according to this review:

    http://asia.cnet.com/ride-test-mando...e-62221119.htm

    As an e-bike, the Footloose has a range of 30km on a full-charge. Iif you're pedaling as you zip along, this extends by another 15km to 45km. The pedals serve as a dynamo to charge the battery. We're told that there's a limit to how much it can charge--50 percent--which explains the extra 15km range. The downside to this is that if the bicycle dies, you won't be able to continue traveling until the Footloose gets recharged.

  14. #14
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos71 View Post
    Not really, according to this review:

    http://asia.cnet.com/ride-test-mando...e-62221119.htm
    I see, after 30-45km you walk or call a taxi. No slow riding. Hence the 'range' specification.

    The review is favorable.

    This kind of bike opens the door for a lot of creativity in the software. For example, the power to the wheel can be proportional to your pedaling speed (using the pedal as an input device), the resistance on the pedal can change with the pedal angle (similar to elliptic chain wheel), turning the pedal backward can apply reverse force on the wheel (coaster brakes, with power regeneration), vertical pedaling (you crank the pedals up/down, not full rotations), one legged person pedaling (you press a pedal, and then it come up back by using the generator as a motor) etc. I would not be surprised if they already filed a bunch of patents for similar ideas.
    Last edited by kamtsa; 07-17-13 at 12:33 PM.
    Happier than a camel on wednesday.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamtsa View Post
    This kind of bike opens the door for a lot of creativity in the software. For example, the power to the wheel can be proportional to your pedaling speed (using the pedal as an input device), the resistance on the pedal can change with the pedal angle (similar to elliptic chain wheel), turning the pedal backward can apply reverse force on the wheel (coaster brakes, with power regeneration), vertical pedaling (you crank the pedals up/down, not full rotations), one legged person pedaling (you press a pedal, and then it come up back by using the generator as a motor) etc. I would not be surprised if they already filed a bunch of patents for similar ideas.
    Certainly. This is the type of discourses needed when it comes to e-bikes. Judging them using traditional criteria kind of misses the point.

  16. #16
    jur
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    Quote Originally Posted by sreten View Post
    Hi,

    The utter inanity of :

    "Remove the HMI and the bike automatically locks, meaning any
    potential thieves will need to use pedal force alone to get away."

    It has no chain ! Not that that has occurred to the copy writer.

    And this nonsense :

    "An Electronic Control Unit (ECU) will monitor your terrain via
    embedded sensors, adjusting the gears automatically so you
    don’t waste energy - be it electrical or sweat-inducing."

    There are clearly no gears.

    The bike is utter nonsense, whilst a chain is 95% efficient here you are looking
    at best 25% efficiency pedalled alternator to a motor drive, probably a lot less.

    A cluelessly specified / described "bike" of no design
    merit whatsoever, and very far from being "awesome".

    rgds, sreten.

    If they ever make such a bad bike it will priced as
    a small run for the very rich and totally clueless.
    Did you ride the bike?

    If not, why do you pollute this forum with this inane drivel??

  17. #17
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    I will love to test ride it. Looks more useful than a Sageway.
    Happier than a camel on wednesday.

  18. #18
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    The bike is finally available for purchase in Europe. Mando has opened a pop-up store in Berlin:

    http://www.klonblog.com/2013/08/06/m...ke-ohne-kette/

    Certainly not cheap at €3999. During the promotional period you get a free carrying case or Brooks saddle + grips.


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    Prio Energy in Portugal has bought a fleet of Footlooses to promote their EV/e-bike charging stations. Here are some pictures on their Facebook page:
    https://www.facebook.com/PrioEnergy/photos_albums

    A review video, including an uphill climb:
    http://exameinformatica.sapo.pt/life...a-sem-corrente

    BTW, I wonder if Footloose can take advantage of the EV fast charging stations that are bound to appear in many neighborhoods soon. It'd alleviate the range-anxiety stemming from the lack of chain. Even if it can't be fast-charged, I'm sure other future e-bikes will support that.

  20. #20
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fwd-bwd View Post
    BTW, I wonder if Footloose can take advantage of the EV fast charging stations that are bound to appear in many neighborhoods soon. It'd alleviate the range-anxiety stemming from the lack of chain. Even if it can't be fast-charged, I'm sure other future e-bikes will support that.
    Considering the small battery size compared to electric cars, every charging station should have enough power to fast charge it. It's up to the bike designers to make it compatible with existing charging stations.

    Edit: on a second thought, Tesla could rebrand them and sell with their cars. Ample trunk room and charging energy for a couple of Mandos and they already have the market of electron huggers with money to spare.
    Last edited by kamtsa; 08-11-13 at 02:11 PM.
    Happier than a camel on wednesday.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Ozonation's Avatar
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    Cool. Love to see designs that push the boundaries: whether or not it is truly efficient and effective will be decided fairly quickly in the market place under real conditions.

    sreten can be skeptical, but looking at alternatives to a conventional bike drivetrain is what innovation is all about. We have fly by wire, drive by wire, even cameras are focus by wire now. It doesn't mean it's better, but we shouldn't dismiss new concepts too quickly. I'm sure the first folding bike was met with considerable derision. And who would have ever thought a mini-van even even had a market?
    Rivendell Sam Hillborne and Hunqapillar; Brompton M6R Sage Green; Salsa Mukluk 3 FAT Bike; Nerdy Academic; Nikonian; Wing Chun; and a Patridge in a Pear Tree.

  22. #22
    Senior Member kamtsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozonation View Post
    And who would have ever thought a mini-van even even had a market?
    Or a telephone, camera, rolodex and a clock, all in one box. Samsung is selling tons of them these days.
    Happier than a camel on wednesday.

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    I recently purchased this bike from Europe, I'm presently in Canada. Upon receiving the bike I unfortunately noticed that when in auto mode the speed is set to European standard 6 kph. At this speed the bike is it is practically un-ridable. We tried contacting Mando Footloose but we are getting no help at the moment on adjusting the speed to American standard which is 25 kph. Does anyone know if there is a way change the speed to 25 kph. Thanks in advance.

  24. #24
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    ha! "a fool and his money are soon parted" still applies.. ^^^ 1st ask the company via their website seems a better thing to do
    than ask strangers , here...,


    you got all the circuitry diagrams with the owners manual?
    Last edited by fietsbob; 08-12-14 at 02:03 PM.

  25. #25
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sreten View Post
    Hi,

    Yes and full of the pretentious crap of the talentless that panders to
    the rich and clueless with expensive and ultimately pointless toys.

    rgds, sreten.
    i miss you, sreten.


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