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Old 09-06-13, 10:13 AM   #1
Still Pedaling
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Dahon vs Tern (seem the same) but . . .

. . . which is better. I was looking at the Dahon Mariner yesterday and I loved the smooth shifting. I just found out that there is a dedicated folding bike store just down the road from Landis Cyclery I visited. If only I knew. They sell some of the Tern models and I was wondering, before I head out there tomorrow, if this brand is OK. They seem to look very much like the Dahons. I noticed on this stores website ( http://portapedalbike.com/ ) that they sell the Tern Link C7 for $480. Not bad, but it doesn't come with a rear rack or fenders. Those can always be added later. But I do like the fact that it has a front attachment bracket that will allow for a front mounted bag -- nice! Since I was looking at the Dahon Mariner, would the Link C7 be of similar quality? If I add the rack and fenders as accessories to the Link C7 it would bring the two bikes around the same price. So which would be the better deal do you think? I have no idea. One thing I noticed with the C7 is that it uses the Shimano Tourney derailleur. Any good? I don't know what is on the Mariner, but it does operate very smoothly.

Cheers
Wayne
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Old 09-06-13, 07:21 PM   #2
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Tern is fine quality. In fact, started by the son of Dahon's owner David Hon (Joshua), so there's some family lineage.

As far as derailleurs, the Shimano Tourney is definitely low-end but gets the job done. Keep in mind that when manufacturing a folding bike, much goes into the frame and in order to keep a certain price point, need to use cheaper components. Derailleurs can always be swapped, I wouldn't worry about that.
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Old 09-06-13, 07:26 PM   #3
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Tern is run by the son and wife of the owner of Dahon. From what I've seen (which isn't much) they are of similar quality
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Old 09-07-13, 08:50 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Still Pedaling View Post
it uses the Shimano Tourney derailleur. Any good?
This is a low end derailleur but should work just fine. My wife has one on her Nova with 1500miles on it and no problem whatsoever. If it will go bad, you can replace it for less than $15. Note that there are several versions and you will need one that fits the hanger on your bike.

As for dahon vs tern. Until recently there were two separate companies using the Dahon name, Dahon China (father and uncle) and Dahon Taiwan (son and mother). Dahon Taiwan is now using the brand Tern and gave the dahon.com domain to Dahon China. I would expect tern to but just the same quality if not better.
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Old 09-07-13, 09:01 AM   #5
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the Tourney is Adequate.. got the need to fit the pricier RD? no one will stop you.
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Old 09-07-13, 11:00 AM   #6
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the Tourney is Adequate.. got the need to fit the pricier RD? no one will stop you.
That's a lot better than having to change out the rear hub and have the wheel re-spoked on my L' Cheapo FB, which, by the way, needs to be done. Reason for going back. I have just read a ton of reviews from C7 users in the UK, and they all agree that it's a great bike for the money. One guy mentioned that he has ridden his over 7000 mikes and its still running like new. Or was that 7000 kilometers? Can't beat that. The folder that I have at present I doubt would see 7000 m/km, but perhaps if parts are swapped out along the way, and in the long run that would make the L' Cheapo more expensive.
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Old 09-07-13, 11:14 AM   #7
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RD just shoves the chain sideways it's the chain that moves your wheel . it, your RD does not have to be jewelry,
but if that is your need to have the best RD , thats your choice.

My un cheap bikes have internal gear hubs the folder a Brompton .. 3 speed ,+ 2 speed IG crank .. Swiss.

The other un cheap one , Rohloff.. as all 14 gear ratios are in sequence , when I was mid deluge wearing my rain cape

I didn't have to see what the gear ratio in sequence was . unlike double and triple derailleurs ..

AZ as a desert , your weather is different , the window gimmicks on the 2 shifters may be fine..
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Old 09-07-13, 12:21 PM   #8
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RD just shoves the chain sideways it's the chain that moves your wheel . it, your RD does not have to be jewelry,
but if that is your need to have the best RD , thats your choice.
That's what I'm trying to avoid -- changing out parts. If I was to get the C7 or any other bike, for that matter, I will not change parts unless it was necessary. It would suit me if it lasts many years to come with stock inventory. The only thing I would do is add accessories for needs only.
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Old 09-07-13, 12:35 PM   #9
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Chain and the chain-wheels front and back is where the wear takes place, and the brake pads and rims to stop.
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Old 09-07-13, 12:57 PM   #10
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Hi,

I got two bikes with real low end Shimano derailleurs, stuff you can't buy even
if you wanted to. The cheapest one works but needs a little overshifting going
down the gears, on the folder, the long cabling doesn't help. The next step up
fitted to the road bike works perfectly well, I've no issues with it at all.

The Tourney being better still should be fine, and simply do the job well.

rgds, sreten.
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Old 09-14-13, 05:20 PM   #11
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I'll piggy-back on that thread instead of starting a new one:
  1. With Tern bikes, what's the difference between their Link and Verge models? It seems like Link is commuter bikes while Verge is more road-bikes.
  2. I don't know if I'll go for a Dahon or Tern ultimately, but I'd like to find a good road bike for touring, with a lot of speeds (18-30), and still be able to carry a 7-10kg bag in the front so weight is more evenly spread and I don't hit the bag with my heels: Is there a good solution to somehow put a bag of that weight in the front?

Thank you.
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Old 09-14-13, 05:32 PM   #12
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I'll piggy-back on that thread instead of starting a new one:
  1. With Tern bikes, what's the difference between their Link and Verge models? It seems like Link is commuter bikes while Verge is more road-bikes.
  2. I don't know if I'll go for a Dahon or Tern ultimately, but I'd like to find a good road bike for touring, with a lot of speeds (18-30), and still be able to carry a 7-10kg bag in the front so weight is more evenly spread and I don't hit the bag with my heels: Is there a good solution to somehow put a bag of that weight in the front?

Thank you.
I don't know what you are planning on spending, but I just purchased a Brompton and they are awesome for touring. Just ask one of the friends here (EvilV) for example.
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Old 09-14-13, 07:19 PM   #13
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Just my two cents here, YMMV. I have a high end Dahon (Speed Pro TT) as well as a Brompton M3L, and a bunch of other folders, so here goes.

They are entirely different in presentation and execution. Dahon has a 3x hub with widerange 9-sp cluster, so super wide gearing, while the Brommie has the BSR standard 3-speed hub with fairly close ratios, which I find quite limiting and especially lacking on the low end.

Dahon fold isn't anywhere near as quick, tidy or well-engineered as the Brompton. It seems almost ungainly in comparison.

Brompton uses more proprietary parts, Dahon uses more standard, although I hate the Dahon's KORE seatpost which uses its own saddle clamp - can't use standard saddles, have to use KORE saddles unless I swap the seatpost with a standard one.

Riding position is not optimal for me on the Brompton; I feel a bit stretched out. Dahon a bit more adjustable but not optimal.

I get the feeling that my Brommie will last much longer than the Dahon. This is subjective.

I like them both, but despite all the Brommie quirks, I still feel it's the better of two bikes, and definitely a tour-de-force of engineering.
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Old 09-14-13, 09:38 PM   #14
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Just my two cents here, YMMV. I have a high end Dahon (Speed Pro TT) as well as a Brompton M3L, and a bunch of other folders, so here goes.

They are entirely different in presentation and execution. Dahon has a 3x hub with widerange 9-sp cluster, so super wide gearing, while the Brommie has the BSR standard 3-speed hub with fairly close ratios, which I find quite limiting and especially lacking on the low end.

Dahon fold isn't anywhere near as quick, tidy or well-engineered as the Brompton. It seems almost ungainly in comparison.

Brompton uses more proprietary parts, Dahon uses more standard, although I hate the Dahon's KORE seatpost which uses its own saddle clamp - can't use standard saddles, have to use KORE saddles unless I swap the seatpost with a standard one.

Riding position is not optimal for me on the Brompton; I feel a bit stretched out. Dahon a bit more adjustable but not optimal.

I get the feeling that my Brommie will last much longer than the Dahon. This is subjective.

I like them both, but despite all the Brommie quirks, I still feel it's the better of two bikes, and definitely a tour-de-force of engineering.
Nice comparison. Don't know anything really about the Dahon, but I love my Brommie. Regarding the 3 speed Brommie -- mine is a 6 speed. There is a two cog cluster at the rear hub allowing for a wider range coupled with the 3 speed Sturmey Archer hub. As far as speed is concerned, the Brommie flies. Reminds me a bit of my road bike days.

Cheers
Wayne
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Old 09-15-13, 12:17 AM   #15
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I hate the Dahon's KORE seatpost which uses its own saddle clamp - can't use standard saddles, have to use KORE saddles unless I swap the seatpost with a standard one.
You can buy an adapter to fit normal 2 rail saddles to the i beam post. Look on this page for 'Kore I Beam adapter'. http://www.thorusa.com/accessories/seatpost.htm

Last edited by freebooter; 09-15-13 at 04:04 AM.
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Old 09-15-13, 02:38 AM   #16
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A brommie is not a better bike than a dahon speed tt. Look at the specs and feel the speed and handling!!
If neither bike folded it would be difficult to make any agurement other than a brommie might fit somepeople better or be better on gravel.

Maybe better to say brommie better folder.
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Old 09-15-13, 06:44 AM   #17
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Freebooter, thanks for the heads up on the KORE adapter. I might just get one.

bhkyte, your point is well taken, but "better" is subjective in this context, which is why I gave it as my opinion only, YMMV, etc. I'm not as infatuated with the Speed Pro TT as I thought I'd be when I first got it.
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Old 09-15-13, 09:33 AM   #18
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Dahon tt is a better bike, that's not subjective opinion. It may not be your "preference", but its is a large technological leap up from a brommie.



I am obviously discounting the fold.

Last edited by bhkyte; 09-15-13 at 01:22 PM. Reason: remove "not " from last sentence to give intended meaning
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Old 09-15-13, 10:12 AM   #19
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Ah. OK, thanks for reminding me. One other design quirk of the Speed Pro TT I forgot to mention.

Original setup, which I still have, is a Shimano drivetrain w/Tiagra brifters & Ultegra RD, with the left brifter shifting what I remember as a SRAM 3x internally geared hub.

Now I'm a mechanic and keep that IGH chainbox aligned as best I can. Still, there are times when I try to shift the hub gear with the left brifter and find myself spinning wildly in no-man's land, as the IGH gets stuck between gears. Very annoying.

I couldn't figure out why this was happening, so I did a little research, and found that Shimano does not necessarily recommend using any brifter with an IGH because the cable pulls can be ever so slightly different. That's exactly what happens to me no matter how I tweak the chainbox alignment. I'll set it precisely, ride some and then it creeps up again. I've tried replacing the cable with no effect.

I could replace the left brifter with something that would shift the IGH better, say a bar-end shifter, but that would be tough with the Dahon's bullhorn bars, plus I'd still need the left brifter for braking unless I replaced the left brake lever too. All that would look plenty strange on this bike assuming I could do it at all.

I don't see myself keeping this bike long-term unless I find a solution for this.
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Old 09-15-13, 10:36 AM   #20
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Hi on the dual drive.
The sram dual drive is compatable with shimano brifters and any shimano sis changers of the same number. This is the advise from fisher uk who import sram.
You can discount the advise about shimano not compactable with an ihg as the dualdrive is set to shift at the same cable pull as a tripple shifter. Ie.

From my experience its usually down to friction in the long cable runs on folders and changing to teflon linned inners has usually worked to sort problems with the ihg shifting.

Else check the click box selector pin is not bent, loose.

The other time that can help is to increase the spring back of the cable with elastic bands,pen springs or a hair bobble.
This cable friction is a common problem with folders not just dd.

Hope my suggestions do the trick for you
I have teflon linned cables and telfon linned kevla cables on my 5 speed brommie and still need to use a hair bobble to get it to shift down well.
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Old 09-15-13, 10:42 AM   #21
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Hi on the dual drive.
The sram dual drive is compatable with shimano brifters and any shimano sis changers of the same number. This is the advise from fisher uk who import sram.
You can discount the advise about shimano not compactable with an ihg as the dualdrive is set to shift at the same cable pull as a tripple shifter. Ie.

From my experience its usually down to friction in the long cable runs on folders and changing to teflon linned inners has usually worked to sort problems with the ihg shifting.

Else check the click box selector pin is not bent, loose.

The other time that can help is to increase the spring back of the cable with elastic bands,pen springs or a hair bobble.
This cable friction is a common problem with folders not just dd.

Hope my suggestions do the trick for you
I have teflon linned cables and telfon linned kevla cables on my 5 speed brommie and still need to use a hair bobble to get it to shift down well.
Interesting thoughts! Chainbox pin is not loose or bent, so I can only assume that it just needs a little extra as you mentioned. Appreciate the heads up!
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Old 09-15-13, 11:40 AM   #22
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Bromptons and TTs are apples and oranges. I like apples.
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Old 09-15-13, 01:19 PM   #23
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Bromptons and TTs are apples and oranges. I like apples.
Oranges are better.

Bit of a silly debate I guess.
But if we start calling basic bikes superior to a much more techinical bike,outsiders might feel we have lost it !
Concept and synergy only go so far!
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Old 09-15-13, 04:38 PM   #24
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Apparently, the Dahon Speed TT has ben replaced by the Vector X27H.

Thanks much for the feedback about Brommie vs. Dahon/Tern.

I don't use a folder to commute but rather for touring + train trips (and possibly plane trips, but I haven't tried yet), so folding isn't a big issue since Dahon/Tern fold small enough to fit.

For that purpose, I'd rather get a folder with 20" wheels and more standard parts, so it'll probably be a Dahon/Tern (or maybe an OriBikes, although they're hard to get in Europe.) Since I'll be upgrading from a Birdy World Speed and its 56T chainring + 8 speeds, I'm looking for something with more gears (2x10 sounds good) that I can ride for about 100km per day without hurting too much, all road.

Those look good:
Thank you.
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Old 09-15-13, 08:40 PM   #25
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DaHon .. PRC, Tern .. ROC ..
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