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Old 09-19-13, 01:38 PM   #1
chaadster
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Ti spoked 406s?

Folks,

Has anyone thoughts on the feasibility of, or better yet, experience using, titanium spoked 406 wheels?

I'm wondering particularly if the Ti spokes might take some edge off high-pressure tires without resulting in unwelcome wheel flex.

What else should be considered before undertaking such a wheel build?
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Old 09-19-13, 01:46 PM   #2
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Ti spokes on a 406 wheel? At first I thought maybe you were angling for weight savings, but the argument for ti instead of stainless steel spokes or whatever seems reasonable.

Me personally, I wouldn't go there. If I wanted to reduce the harshness in a 406 wheel, my first thought is very careful selection of tires. Ride quality depends hugely on tires, so do a few searches here for the latest thinking. It's very similar to tires on a car - the right tire can really transform the ride.
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Old 09-19-13, 03:08 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by bargainguy View Post
Ti spokes on a 406 wheel? At first I thought maybe you were angling for weight savings, but the argument for ti instead of stainless steel spokes or whatever seems reasonable.

Me personally, I wouldn't go there. If I wanted to reduce the harshness in a 406 wheel, my first thought is very careful selection of tires. Ride quality depends hugely on tires, so do a few searches here for the latest thinking. It's very similar to tires on a car - the right tire can really transform the ride.
Yeah, I don't know if there would be weight savings or not, but the possibility of getting Ti spokes in cool anodized colors is pretty appealing, too!

I agree with your point regarding tires, and am quite happy with the improvement the Schwalbe Kojaks offered over my stock Kenda Kwest low pressure tires, despite the additional psi and narrower width. The Kojak sidewalls are supple!

But yes, the main consideration with Ti is the ride feel. I tried a set of Ti spoked 26" MTB wheels back in the early '90s, and they were a hot mess to ride on, just flopping, practically, all over the place and they felt generally vague, not crisp and athletic. Aside from that, though, I've no experience with Ti spokes, which is why I brought the question here.
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Old 09-23-13, 05:21 AM   #4
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The last wheel I had built at the LBS I asked for Ti spokes and they said NO NO, Ti spokes just don't hold up.
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Old 09-23-13, 09:56 AM   #5
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Ti, Why? they're already light because they're short.

maybe cut down a DB and use nips for the 15ga thinner portion of a 14-15 DB spoke .
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Old 09-24-13, 10:38 AM   #6
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Ti spokes need constant retruing and than eventually they make this POP noise... their fatigue life sucks. Yes there are bmx racers who use them but them rebuilt/ true every wheel after every race. The funky colored ti spokes are no longer available.
Much better choice is to use the Sapim CX Ray spokes they are almost as pricey as Ti Spokes but just a hair heavier and super super strong. Use about 20 % more torque on them and they will last a lifetime.

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Old 09-25-13, 06:14 PM   #7
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Wow brakemeister these spokes have just made drool all over my keyboard!!

Can you explain what the difference is between CX Superspoke and CX Ray? 3x price diffs, I am curious...

Just waiting for the end of the month to get some of these beauties for my Swift. My Swift deserves only the best.
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Old 09-25-13, 07:59 PM   #8
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Wow brakemeister these spokes have just made drool all over my keyboard!!

Can you explain what the difference is between CX Superspoke and CX Ray? 3x price diffs, I am curious...

Just waiting for the end of the month to get some of these beauties for my Swift. My Swift deserves only the best.
the superspoke is made from a different steel, more handlabour ( MUCH more) and is a 15 ga spoke .. the cxray is almost a classic by now and has a lot of hand labour too. Superlight but with the correct tension ( about 20 % more ) super strong .... think zipp sram enve reynolds boyd and and and basically all top wheelbuilder using them ..... downhill tandems etc etc .. not cheap but well worth it
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Old 09-26-13, 12:19 AM   #9
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OK since you got the talking points down sitting in the booth all weekend

I understand the hand labor when making up one spoke, [been there , done that]

but mass producing spokes has a machine tool forging the head and bending the hook

at a fair clip ... in order to have the thousands of them made .. before lunch ,
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Old 09-26-13, 05:34 AM   #10
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The funky colored ti spokes are no longer available.
Have you spoken with Marwi lately? They seem to be offering them still, and built into carbon wheel sets, even:

http://www.marwi.com.tw/index.php?pa...id=200&lang=en

Anyway, thanks for the feedback; my Ti spoke experience was awful, too, but it was a long time ago, and things can change, so I just wanted to see if things had improved for this application, but it sounds like not.
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Old 09-26-13, 02:40 PM   #11
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OK since you got the talking points down sitting in the booth all weekend

I understand the hand labor when making up one spoke, [been there , done that]

but mass producing spokes has a machine tool forging the head and bending the hook

at a fair clip ... in order to have the thousands of them made .. before lunch ,
Not quite .... at least not the CX Rays or the Superspokes... both have a couple steps inbetween where Sapim utilizes real people who are all very well trained and absolute experts. Nobody can touch the spokes until they are not at least 5 years working there. Couple folks who do this are 20 and 30 years Sapim employees....
I cant tell you more about how and why as this is company secret...

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Old 10-27-13, 02:18 AM   #12
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I utilise Sapim CX-rays for my Moulton APB's wheels.
Because my hubs are heavy, I wanted to find a balance between strength and weight.
I use a Sondelux front dynohub and a Sram Dualdrive (three speed internal with cassette).
I'm in Australia but sent to California to have my wheels custom built by the good people at wheelbuilder.com
I'm happy with my choice of hubs, CX-Rays and 36H Velocity Aeroheat (Dyad extrusion in 406) rims.
Apparently they were a painful build for the wheelsmith.
Its been over a year now and they have really covered some miles including an across Australia tour.







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