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  1. #51
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomasw333 View Post
    What folding bike do you have? Do you do any upgrades to your bikes?
    sorry, i should have clarified what i meant by my previous statement. firstly, i'm not ripping on your bike choice. but, here's a fact - you get what you pay for. folding bikes are different from other bikes in that they have more parts. the more moving parts you have, the greater the possibility for problems. this is true even with more expensive folding bikes.

    however, inexpensive folding bikes have cheap parts and are more frequently made using automated processes and with the cheapest labor imaginable. that's why you can buy a shiny new one for less than 400 dollars. they are assembled hurriedly using pneumatic tools and the parts that you as a rider rely on most are often under-greased and over-tightened. but, that's also why, after riding the bike only a few times, you begin to notice problems and start contemplating upgrades.

    once this process begins, you are now throwing good money after bad. unless you are mechanically inclined and have bike tools, you will have to pay someone to make the changes you desire. also, consider that most likely you will be paying retail for the parts you add to this bike. very quickly, you will find that you have arrived at the 600 dollar price point for a bike that began to depreciate the minute you opened the box.

    for near the same expenditure, you can find great deals on used bikes that come with very good quality components as stock. consider that a higher-end used bike will likely have been properly cared for as it was expensive for the owner and has probably been under-utilized and that is why it is being sold. that's "value for money". the caveat for buying a used bike is that it takes patience and research. but, probably not much more time that you spent contemplating whether or not to buy the bike you currently have.

    as you mentioned in a previous post, you don't exactly have disposable income at this time in your life to pour into a pet bike project. this is why i say upgrading is not worth it. my advice would be to ride the bike as is and take note of the things you don't like about it and keep that list in mind when next you shop for a bike. also, if it really isn't meeting your needs, sell it sooner than later.

    regarding cplager's recumbent conversion origami, i'm pretty sure i expressed to him previously that it is super cool conversion and i think he did an awesome job on it. for purposes of this conversation, just consider that he is an older guy with an established career and probably has a few bikes and some disposable income to use to play around with his hobby.

  2. #52
    The Recumbent Quant cplager's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Quote Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
    regarding cplager's recumbent conversion origami, i'm pretty sure i expressed to him previously that it is super cool conversion and i think he did an awesome job on it. for purposes of this conversation, just consider that he is an older guy with an established career and probably has a few bikes and some disposable income to use to play around with his hobby.
    You have, I am, I do (too many, in fact), and I don't but I wish (and act like) I do.

    (Yes, I was being a bit b|tchy in my response...)

    Even with my Greenzone (a bike that I had completely trashed (long-story-short - don't ride your folding bike in a foot and a half of water), but have now built back up using the parts I took off of the Origami Mantis), I had a bike that I got my $200 worth out of. Now that I've hacked it and have the Origami stem on it, it's not too bad.

    The biggest problem with folders are the parts that you can't easily replace (the hinge and often the stem). On my Origami, these are considerably nicer than on my Greenzone (the frame on the Greenzone is fine, the stem is and always was a POS).

    For people who are willing to tune their own bikes, I think the Origami are fine bikes (as I've said before, I'm happy with the frame). After putting several hundred miles on them, you may realize the pieces you want to upgrade, but by watching Craigslist and what not for parts (wheels being the big one), you can end up with quite a nice bike for not a lot of money. And with Origami, the owner is actively trying to work with his clients (which is worth a lot).

    Cheers,
    Charles
    Last edited by cplager; 10-07-13 at 04:55 PM.
    http://Charles.Plager.net
    http://RecumbentQuant.blogspot.com

  3. #53
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cplager View Post
    You have, I am, I do (too many, in fact), and I don't but I wish (and act like) I did.

    (Yes, I was being a bit b|tchy in my response...)
    hehe.. it was a little snippy... but, i like to imagine you've calmed down and are sitting on a veranda listening to bach's brandenburg concertos while sipping some chamomile tea....

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by cplager View Post
    You have, I am, I do (too many, in fact), and I don't but I wish (and act like) I did.

    (Yes, I was being a bit b|tchy in my response...)
    I just realized I've been wrongfully assuming you were Emmanuel Derman. Sorry!

  5. #55
    Member thomasw333's Avatar
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    smallwheeler, that is a fine and rational response. But we still want to know what folding bikes you have. You have a picture of one as your avatar but I cannot tell what it is.

  6. #56
    Member thomasw333's Avatar
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    Argh!!! Ok, so I just put the front brake back on, just because, just to be safe, and to practice adjusting things. I got the brake on really good, it could be a little tighter, but its good.

    So, I ride it around in a few circles, and I notice that the headset is loose, omg this bike is having so many little problems.
    Does anyone know what type of headset this is, and if it is easy to be tightened?

  7. #57
    The Recumbent Quant cplager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by landhere View Post
    I just realized I've been wrongfully assuming you were Emmanuel Derman. Sorry!
    Ha!! Yes, we're both former physicists who have gone to the dark side (finance). He's a bit more, shall we say, seasoned than I am.
    http://Charles.Plager.net
    http://RecumbentQuant.blogspot.com

  8. #58
    The Recumbent Quant cplager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
    hehe.. it was a little snippy... but, i like to imagine you've calmed down and are sitting on a veranda listening to bach's brandenburg concertos while sipping some chamomile tea....
    I'm actually much more of a Genmai-Cha green tea kind of guy (if you haven't tried it before, I highly recommend it even though it sounds quite weird).
    http://Charles.Plager.net
    http://RecumbentQuant.blogspot.com

  9. #59
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cplager View Post
    I'm actually much more of a Genmai-Cha green tea kind of guy (if you haven't tried it before, I highly recommend it even though it sounds quite weird).
    actually, been drinking genmaicha for years and i love it.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by cplager View Post
    I'm actually much more of a Genmai-Cha green tea kind of guy (if you haven't tried it before, I highly recommend it even though it sounds quite weird).
    Matcha for me, I find if I put it into a tea thermos that has a strainer, all the bumps will give it a good enough shaking and it'll be all frothy when you're ready for a tea break.

  11. #61
    Member thomasw333's Avatar
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    These bikes use a threadless headset, and while youtube makes it look east to tighten, that is with a normal bike, with the folding handle post, I will let the bike shop tighten it tomorrow.

  12. #62
    Member thomasw333's Avatar
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    Took bike to LBS, picked up Sunlite Slick Brake Cable with Housing, and Sunlite Slick Shifter Cable with Housing.

    http://sunlitecycling.com/product_de...ing&cl1=CABLES

    They are Teflon cables, and pretty cheap, $5 each. Not Stainless Steel, but Teflon coated, and the next step up was some Teflon and Stainless Jagwire cable, it was $8 just for the cable and needed housing. Talked to my GF and she made me realize that this is an entry level bike, and I should not get too expensive components, and I agree. Sunlite and Origin8 are at the basic level, but they make quality parts from what I have seen. Teflon coating seemed the most important, I don't see the need for stainless steel, and braided line is way to expensive. And the line is galvanized, which with housing should mean no rust issues. Remember I do not ride in the rain, I am a fair-weather rider, and my bike is in my trunk when not being ridden.

    Also got an Origin8 Comfortech Saddle,

    http://www.amazon.com/Origin8-Comfor...n8+comforttech

    This saddle for $30 looked good. The LBS did not have a good selection of lower priced seats, it was this, or spend 50 to 150. LBS are nice though, he said buy and seat ride it for a week, if you don't like it, bring it back for a refund, or try another. This seat is a little wider and thicker than the stock I am hoping it is more comfortable.

    I was also looking at the, Planet Bike Men A.R.S. Anatmoic Relief seat, but it looked to bulky for the bike.
    The Avenir Men 100 series Mountain seat looked nice also. Both on Amazon for about $20 bucks.

    Also got some Origin8 Pro Force Brake Levers, they looked really good, and felt good, was looking at these of some Origin8 Minis, but the LBS had the Pro Force Levers in stock. $25 at the LBS.

    http://www.amazon.com/Origin8-Pro-Fo...=origin8+lever

    Also of course told them to tighten the Headset.
    I think I am done with upgrades for now, would like a better shifter, but that is for later, already spent too much money on these upgrades, and getting it set-up. In the future it would be nice to get a higher quality Bottom Bracket, Crank, Wheels or really, Wheel Bearings, Rear Derailleur, and that would make the bike about perfect.

  13. #63
    Member thomasw333's Avatar
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    Bike is good, now, new seat, brake levers, fixed headset, new brake cable and shifter cable. Full review coming soon.

  14. #64
    Member thomasw333's Avatar
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    Rode for an hour today, everything is good, but the chain fell off once, do not know why.

  15. #65
    Member thomasw333's Avatar
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    Another day, another one hour ride with no issues, going to bike the neck on Wednesday.
    http://www.sctrails.net/trails/MAPS/...eck%20map.html

    Bike is new but wish I had some Schwalbe Kojak tires, 20x1.35.
    http://www.amazon.com/Schwalbe-Kojak.../dp/B004XVOLBG

  16. #66
    Member thomasw333's Avatar
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    Here are some pictures, of the Origami crane folded next to the Citizen Gathom 2. Also pics of the new seat, and brake levers. Shot with cell phone so not the best quality.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasw...7636566605833/

  17. #67
    Senior Member Pinigis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomasw333 View Post
    Here are some pictures, of the Origami crane folded next to the Citizen Gathom 2. Also pics of the new seat, and brake levers. Shot with cell phone so not the best quality.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasw...7636566605833/
    Thanks for posting the photos. I like to see that the Origami folds more neatly than the Citizen since the handlebar nests in the folded frame.

  18. #68
    Member 87gerG's Avatar
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    I had the Planet Bike ARS men seat on my Trek 930 that I sold a couple of years ago. I really liked that seat. I just ordered another one for my Origami Cricket and will post a photo of it installed, I don't think it will be too bulky for the bike.

    I've had my Cricket out several more times (approaching 30 miles total) and am really enjoying this bike. Once I get the seat replaced and the pedals I'm thinking about thinner tires.
    Greg

  19. #69
    Member thomasw333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 87gerG View Post
    I had the Planet Bike ARS men seat on my Trek 930 that I sold a couple of years ago. I really liked that seat. I just ordered another one for my Origami Cricket and will post a photo of it installed, I don't think it will be too bulky for the bike.

    I've had my Cricket out several more times (approaching 30 miles total) and am really enjoying this bike. Once I get the seat replaced and the pedals I'm thinking about thinner tires.
    I was looking at the Planet Bike ARS seat also, i think it will be more comfortable than the Origin8 seat I got, but it was at the LBS and I was getting work done, and I like the look. I can handle a little less comfort for a sleeker look.

    I just did 12 miles today, everything worked fine. I will also go to a thinner tire, looking either at Schwalbe Marathon 1.5 inch, or Schwalbe Kojak 1.35 inch, just have to make sure the Kojaks are not too small. Of course I would like to get some life out of the stock tires. Also, I am going to change the shifter, the revo shift digs into my hand It has to go. Also thinking of getting a 12-28t or 12-24t, I do not even know what is available in 7 speeds, but the 14t high gear is too short, and gears 1 and 2 for me are a waste. Will also change out the rear derailleur. When exactly this will happen, I do not know.

  20. #70
    Member thomasw333's Avatar
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    Better pictures, with my Olympus Pen camera.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasw...7636667900224/

  21. #71
    Member thomasw333's Avatar
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    Changed my mind, why do a full review in another thread, just wastes space this thread is fine. And by now I have said so much about the bike.

    So I will just put up the rest of my review here.

    Is this bike worth the money? Yes. Is this bike amazing, is it the best, obviously not. It is a good bike at a good price.
    You get the most basic components. But you do get a sturdy frame and hinge design which is very important.

    If you get any bike from the web and not from a LBS take the normal steps to have it checked out at a LBS.
    Make sure they check the headset, mine was not installed correctly, and the LBS said they also had to add a shim to make it right.
    Make sure the rear wheel is true, front wheel if you have money to burn.
    Make sure the brakes are adjusted.
    Make sure the shifter is adjusted.
    Make sure every bolt is tight, seat clamp, handle bars, crank, etc. Check them all even if they feel tight.
    If i had gone in more preapared, with a list of things to check, I would have been able to save some money, because I did not tell the first LBS to check the headset, and I changed the Brake Levers and cables after the first check and was charged again. If I had changed the levers and cables and told them to check everything all at once, I think I could have save $35-45 dollars.

    If you are smart, and get everything checked out the first time, and do not need a wheel to be trued, you will probably pay $35-40 dollars. Add another 30-40 if the wheel must be trued.

    I am not a person that is satisfied with lower end products, I like my things to work well and I like them to have a certain style.
    So while not necessary for all, I found it necessary to change out several components:
    Brake Levers, Seat, Brake and Shifter Cables. I am still not happy with the brake, but it has come down to the pads themselves, since the cables are fine, the levers are fine, and the v-brake is good enough, and everything is adjusted perfectly, that leaves the pads. Now with the new levers and adjustments I will say that the brakes work fine, but for me a will not be happy until I get nicer brake pads.

    My seat is not perfect but at $30 it looks nice and I will learn to love it, I need to ride more and get used to it. I do not really want a giant seat even if it is super comfortable because it would look weird to me.

    The gearing is ok, it goes from 14-28t. I would rather have a 12-24t set, because I find 1st gear to be nearly useless (second gear as well) and 7th gear is too slow, from 14t to 12t would be nice, and I am being realistic with the range since it is a 7 speed. In a perfect world I would have a ten speed, from 11-34t.

    The revoshift has got to go, I will replace it, it rubs into my hand (my thumb get irritated) in a bad way on rides over 10 miles. A basic tourney shifter that I have linked before will be put on. This is going to take time though, as money is always tight and GF's don't like you spending money to fix/replace things that "work."

    The tires are ok, but again one day some Marathon 1.5 or Kojak 1.35 tires will be put on.

    And again if this was a fantasy world, it would be nice to have lighter wheels, and best bearings all around, but for this level price point it would make more sense to but a higher end bike, like a Tern.

    Now, in comparing this bike to my old Citizen Gotham2, the Crane is noticeably lighter, it makes a big difference and is so much easier to put in my trunk. It is also easier to get going on, it takes off faster. And my GF is now riding the Gotham2, she does not like how the handle bar is flat, I agree, having a slight bend in the handle bar, like on the Crane, is nice. It puts the hand grips a little closer to you, and you can relax and sit up a little straighter when you ride. Also as mentioned before, the tighter and neater fold is great.

    So that is it, the bike is worth the money, but it is a basic bike, know what you are buying.

    this may be my last folder, I am tired of folders, a "comfort" bike with 700c tires or 26 inch tires, with no suspension just rides so much faster/nicer/easier to me.

    The only reason I went to folders was because I have had poor living arrangements, and do not have anywhere to put a normal size bike. When I get to a place where I can store a regular sized bike I will hopefully go back to that. Bikes I like, are the Fuji Crosstown, and Specialized Crossroads. I will also take a road bike with relaxed geometry, and at least a 700X35C tires. I do not like 700X23, 25, 28, 30 tires, too thin for me.

    Of course, check my flickr page for pictures, and I will update this thread if new things happen.

  22. #72
    Member 87gerG's Avatar
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    Nice review thomasw333. I got my Planet Bike ARS seat today and installed it. It is almost exactly the same size as the Origami seat that came on my Cricket. I'll post some pics in a second.
    Greg

  23. #73
    Member 87gerG's Avatar
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    Origami comfort saddle side view:

    Planet bike ARS saddle side view:

    Origami comfort saddle top view:

    Planet bike ARS saddle top view:

    Side view Origami comfort saddle with Planet bike ARS saddle on top:

    Top view of Origami comfort saddle with Planet bike ARS saddle on top:

    Did a 6 mile ride after installing Planet bike ARS saddle and it was so much nicer. The Origami comfort saddle is too soft and after about 2-3 miles kills me.
    Greg

  24. #74
    Member thomasw333's Avatar
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    The Planet ARS seat looks good, the shape and design of the back end, looks like it has better support than the stock seat. They are similar in size but it looks to me that the ARS seat is a little wider in the rear and that can make a lot of difference. Also the channel down the middle looks a little deeper and wider which is important to stop numbness. Actually it looks so nice I wish I had gotten it myself, because my Origin8 seat works, but it is not the best seat I have ever had.

  25. #75
    Member 87gerG's Avatar
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    The Planet bike ARS doesn't slope down as much on the back end sides as the Origami comfort does which gives you more "sit" area but is still very close to the same width overall.
    Greg

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