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-   -   Double kickstand for Dahon Speed TR? (http://www.bikeforums.net/folding-bikes/918367-double-kickstand-dahon-speed-tr.html)

pampera 10-17-13 02:47 PM

Double kickstand for Dahon Speed TR?
 
Regards to all of you nice forum members!

At last I realized my Dahon Speed TR is kind of the family SUV and therefore, no need for slim tires as I was looking for before the summer, but... I do need one good double kickstand.
(In fact both the big apple and the bmx tire inflated at 3/4 % are great cushions).

I'm carrying my little one with a rear seat (heavy both, the kid and the seat) and the bike is not stable with the kickstand even with the empty seat. In fact I remember the bike falling with the kickstand before attaching the seat.

By the way, for who may be interested, the Yepp rear seat works absolutely perfect with the Dahon.

Well, could you be so kind to tell me about a good double kisckstand ready to use with the Dahon and available from Spain? (I mean, dont want to cut a regular quickstand nor mechanical adaptations needed).

Thank you in advance!

brakemeister 10-17-13 03:13 PM

Pletscher made in switzerland ..cost is about 40 bucks .... BUT freight to spain is another 40 dlr ... u should be able to find one over there ..

best Thor

pampera 10-17-13 03:19 PM

Thanks Thor! If not brought in hand from US I dont trust customs, lost shippings before. So I'll look for an UE seller.
Any model in particular?
(Just to go for the one wich will fit).

zebede 10-18-13 10:59 AM

The stock kick stand that came with my Speed TR was a tad short for my liking. I replaced with a Greenfield. Much better now. Its not a double though.

chagzuki 10-18-13 11:11 AM

I thought that double kickstands don't work with derailleur Dahons, the chain being lower and therefore catching on the protruding leg.

kamtsa 10-18-13 10:13 PM

Got this once from Velo Orange for our Nova and did not like it at all. It was monstrous.

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...kickstand.html

brakemeister 10-21-13 10:33 AM

velo orange one is indeed a monster ..... the pletscher folds to the left side of the wheel and is not in the way ...

best Thor

jmm 10-21-13 07:01 PM

If you put Big Apples on a bike that that had a proper length single arm side kickstand for conventional sized tires, the stand will then be too short and the bike will lean excessively when on the stand due to the larger diameter of the BAs. The nice thing about the Pletscher Zoom ESGE Single Arm Side Kickstand is that the length is adjustable so you can set the lean of the bike for optimum stability. I have put Big Apples on three of my folders and have replaced all the OEM stands with adjustable Pletschers after wasting time making an extension for one of the original stands and also getting a new uncut Greenfield and shortening it so that it was a little longer than the original (most Greenfield models are sized for bikes with 26" or 700C wheels, so they always have to be cut when mounted on a small wheeled folder). I did cut off a little bit of the excess length of the metal leg of the Pletschers after deciding on the right length for the adjustable plastic tip.
John

pampera 10-23-13 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmm (Post 16179933)
If you put Big Apples on a bike that that had a proper length single arm side kickstand for conventional sized tires, the stand will then be too short and the bike will lean excessively when on the stand due to the larger diameter of the BAs. The nice thing about the Pletscher Zoom ESGE Single Arm Side Kickstand is that the length is adjustable so you can set the lean of the bike for optimum stability. I have put Big Apples on three of my folders and have replaced all the OEM stands with adjustable Pletschers after wasting time making an extension for one of the original stands and also getting a new uncut Greenfield and shortening it so that it was a little longer than the original (most Greenfield models are sized for bikes with 26" or 700C wheels, so they always have to be cut when mounted on a small wheeled folder). I did cut off a little bit of the excess length of the metal leg of the Pletschers after deciding on the right length for the adjustable plastic tip.
John

I have one big apple (front) and one bmx (rear) tires. Wich model would you suggest?

gdb415 10-23-13 03:44 PM

I have a speed TR with stock big apples ,front and rear ,in use with the double Pletscher kickstand. This combo works perfectly and I love it.

2_i 10-24-13 08:44 PM

In the long-term, I found the Pletscher double-legged stands to be flimsy and currently stay away from them. Unfortunately sturdier double-legged stands tend to be too bulky for a folder. However, just as jmm, I found that an adjustable single-legged stand was a good solution for a folder in terms of combining stability with unobtrusiveness. My favorite is this model sold after different trade names.

brakemeister 10-25-13 09:11 AM

flimsy ? you got to be kidding ..... and than suggesting a cheap chinese fits all stand ?

The pletscher is nice, not because we are selling them, but cause Pletscher has built kickstands like forever, they are holding the ESGE patents since ever as well. The difference is in the folding head parts, where the Pletscher has a very positive over center snap ...in lack of other words.... which prevents wobbling ( on all of their stands , not just the double ) Pletscher is also very easy on warranty, if one breaks , which happens ( like 5 a year ) not bad if you consider that we alone sell about 8000 ( double kickstands, many more single ones ) pieces every year ( USA only )

Although the double is somewhat heavy its considerble less than some others, folds to one side, has a wide stance ,...and doesnt wobble ....

flimsy ? not so much

BikeKraft 10-25-13 11:28 AM

What kickstand come on the Dahon Ciao? In a video posted in another thread it shows a double leg type.

2_i 10-25-13 11:49 AM

Sure flimsy. The design is one for which wobbling incessantly rises. The complex folding mechanism corrodes. The holding bolt can get stuck in the holding alu through corrosion but can strip the thread as well. When I wrote to Pletscher as a customer asking for a spare bolt I think, I never heard back. Another questionable Pletscher design has been their rack with a detachable basket. The basket would fly out with its content on more rapid turns. Yes, I learned to avoid anything that carries load and is detachable on a bike, but why market designs that are flawed - a waste of money for me as a customer.

The stand I suggested has a simple design that works. My own stands are marketed by a Swedish company:

http://www.atranvelo.com/products/kickstands

Can't tell whether they rebrand stands from the same source as the one on Amazon, or that on Amazon is a copy of the Swedish one. Greenfield stands are an identical model to what everybody around the world and their mother manufactures. One could also call them a knock-off.

zebede 10-26-13 11:52 AM

Greenfield is a family owned mfg. who has been designing and mfg quality kickstands long before China came out of the dark age. They have been copied extensively, both in form and function.

I contacted them about how I had purchased the wrong size rear stabilizer. I complained that I could not find the 700c model on the market. Mr. Greenfield, the president himself corresponded with me directly and shipped the longer model gratis and asked that I return the shorter one at my convenience.

I am a fan of Greenfield. I do wish they had a competitive product for the esge double...I have always wanted one but they are very expensive.

lucille 10-26-13 03:23 PM

Both my husband and I have Pletscher double kickstands on our Bike Friday NWTs and don't find them flimsy at all. My only complaint is that when the bike is fully loaded, it's too heavy for me to lift to put on the kickstand. I did have it cut shorter a bit and find it easier. And I do realize that kickstands are not really made to support that much weight.
I love the Pletscher, don't think it's expensive for what you get.

2_i 10-26-13 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucille (Post 16194353)
Both my husband and I have Pletscher double kickstands on our Bike Friday NWTs

That's interesting. In my memory, when I had one on a NWT, I found that I could not fully fold the bike.

lucille 10-26-13 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2_i (Post 16194418)
That's interesting. In my memory, when I had one on a NWT, I found that I could not fully fold the bike.

It folds just fine, you do have to take it off for packing into the suitcase though.

brakemeister 10-28-13 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2_i (Post 16191817)
Sure flimsy. The design is one for which wobbling incessantly rises. The complex folding mechanism corrodes. The holding bolt can get stuck in the holding alu through corrosion but can strip the thread as well. When I wrote to Pletscher as a customer asking for a spare bolt I think, I never heard back. Another questionable Pletscher design has been their rack with a detachable basket. The basket would fly out with its content on more rapid turns. Yes, I learned to avoid anything that carries load and is detachable on a bike, but why market designs that are flawed - a waste of money for me as a customer.

The stand I suggested has a simple design that works. My own stands are marketed by a Swedish company:

http://www.atranvelo.com/products/kickstands

Can't tell whether they rebrand stands from the same source as the one on Amazon, or that on Amazon is a copy of the Swedish one. Greenfield stands are an identical model to what everybody around the world and their mother manufactures. One could also call them a knock-off.

If you write to Pletscher heaquarters in Switzerland than we get a copy. And we do answer every email. If you wrote to Pletscher USA you also got an answer as that is us. There is of course always the possibility that your email gets int some spam filter which nobody has a real way to eliminate that. In case you needed a bolt short, long, hex, or whatever we would have certainly put one into a envelope.

Alloy corrodes if it is not cleaned once in a while in general, if your folding mechanism corroded beyound functioning, that would be the first one I have seen doing that. But than its always a first at one time. I have customers with those on boats in the salt water and they do fine over years, than again they spray them off once in a while I guess.

Pletscher is a family business and makes kickstands much much longer than for example Greenfield. And again the Pletschers have the better positive over center idea, based on patents and a lot of experience. Greenfields are good people who got their start in the bike biz due to the now old defunct Schwinn company did not wanted to pay the high prices for Pletschers when the exchange rate went ballistic in the 70's.

Best Thor

2_i 10-28-13 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brakemeister (Post 16198297)
If you write to Pletscher heaquarters in Switzerland than we get a copy. And we do answer every email. If you wrote to Pletscher USA you also got an answer as that is us.

I am not sure you were already their distributor. According to my records, this was before 2005 and the item I asked for was the backplate from what I see in those records.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brakemeister (Post 16198297)
Alloy corrodes if it is not cleaned once in a while in general, if your folding mechanism corroded beyound functioning, that would be the first one I have seen doing that.

I had to cut the backplate to get the stand off the bike. On another occasion the folding mechanism area got so bad that I could not unfold it - maybe already this was already another Pletscher stand. I went through maybe 3 of them, on different bikes.

Let me elaborate more on what I think is deficient in ESGE-Pletscher and what is good in what you called a cheap knock-off. In general alu is, in my opinion, a questionable material for a kickstand. It is more justified for a folder than another bike and you may try to get around the weakness of the material. The legs in Pletscher are thin, for alu, although of about the same cross section as for other marginal stands such as the reference Greenfield. However, in Pletscher one leg approaches ground at a shallow angle putting extra lateral stress on that leg, and transferred to the top, making the stand extra wobbly. The bolt in Pletscher has about the same diameter as in Greenfield, but is supposed to carry twice the load. The result is that you either risk stripping the thread by overtightening the bolt or having it constantly loosen. The folding mechanism sucks the mud in. I was trying to protect it in winter season by filling spaces with grease but it still did not help.

Now this one-leg stand I indicated has alu parts, but they are thick. The portion of the leg that goes down represents nearly the sum of material cross section for the two Pletscher legs, while the load is half. Sure, one legged-stands have balance and slip problems, but adjustability helps to alleviate those. Still, Pletscher has advantage over many single-legged that are not adjustable and the advantage of folding to one side. For many people who use their bikes once in a while, Pletscher can be sufficient. I use a bike day in day out and such a stand like 2-legged Pletscher is a constant source of anxiety that I cannot tolerate. On full-size bikes, I go with sturdy Hebie 2-legged stands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brakemeister (Post 16198297)
Greenfields are good people who got their start in the bike biz due to the now old defunct Schwinn company did not wanted to pay the high prices for Pletschers when the exchange rate went ballistic in the 70's.

That was more or less my expectation. As to ESGE/Pletscher, I recall their very innovative, for the time, ski bindings. At the moment, though, I do not see them pushing the envelope in the bike area. The designs are frozen in time, at least in my cone of view.

zebede 10-29-13 05:00 AM

greenfield man
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brakemeister (Post 16198297)
If you write to Pletscher heaquarters in Switzerland than we get a copy. And we do answer every email. If you wrote to Pletscher USA you also got an answer as that is us. There is of course always the possibility that your email gets int some spam filter which nobody has a real way to eliminate that. In case you needed a bolt short, long, hex, or whatever we would have certainly put one into a envelope.

Alloy corrodes if it is not cleaned once in a while in general, if your folding mechanism corroded beyound functioning, that would be the first one I have seen doing that. But than its always a first at one time. I have customers with those on boats in the salt water and they do fine over years, than again they spray them off once in a while I guess.

Pletscher is a family business and makes kickstands much much longer than for example Greenfield. And again the Pletschers have the better positive over center idea, based on patents and a lot of experience. Greenfields are good people who got their start in the bike biz due to the now old defunct Schwinn company did not wanted to pay the high prices for Pletschers when the exchange rate went ballistic in the 70's.

Best Thor


My Excellent Dahon Speed TR came with a Cheap kickstand.

The Greenfield rear stabilizer is an excellent alternative to the very nice Esge double at less than half the cost. In addition you can choose corrosion resistant black powder coated model at no additional cost.....signed Fan of Thor


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