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  1. #51
    Senior Member bargainguy's Avatar
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    There is at least one reason why Brommie resale values are so high: Reliability. It's my understanding that component fail rates are fairly low on Brommies but fairly high on Dahon, with better parts support from Brompton as far as availability and delivery. I have no objective data to back this up, though, so pure speculation.

    The Brommie is the ultimate multimodal commuter IMHO: Tiny fold, lifetime bike, incremental engineering. It does not excel at all things. Gearing can be limited and riding position can be wonky for some riders.

  2. #52
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bargainguy View Post
    It's my understanding that component fail rates are fairly low on Brommies but fairly high on Dahon, with better parts support from Brompton as far as availability and delivery. I have no objective data to back this up, though, so pure speculation.
    Then why would you even say this? And what makes you think this is true? FYI,most Dahon components are standard parts used on many bikes. Just about everything on a Brompton is Brompton specific. BTW,I ordered an alloy seatpost for my Brompton through my dealer. After a year,they told me they couldn't get one. I can go to a Dahon dealer or several websites and get a Biologic post for my Dahon.

    Also,you do know that there are many times more Dahons than Bromptons,right? If Dahon had a 1% fail rate,and Brompton had a 10% fail rate,there would be more Dahons failing because there simply more Dahons out there.

    Brommies hold their value because they are expensive to begin with,and because they're all hand made. It's possible to walk into a Dahon dealer and buy anything in the lineup. But if you want a Brommie,you either pick what they have on hand,or order one and wait 1-2 months.

    C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport/Qualifier,Brompton S6L,Dahon Speed Pro TT

  3. #53
    Senior Member mustang1's Avatar
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    Hello Gerald, I've not ridden either of those bikes but have looked into Bromptons as a possible purchase (it's easily foldable thus can hide from the wife ).

    Kidding aside, I've always been under the impression that if you're going to buy a folding bike, a Brompton is the *only* one you should consider. This is what I've *read*: It's more convenient to fold. It's more convenient once it's folded. It's more stable. It rides better. All the features are well integrated (ez wheels, rack, mudguards, bags). It's way more expensive, and that's not even considering the titanium version.

    I was in NY the other month and was surprised to see the number of Dahons around. But popularity doesn't imply it's a better product. In London, there are more Bromptons than any other folding bike (well, it's British right?) At work, it was hammered home yet again: I saw two bromptons folded and sitting in the cloakroom, side by side, and a folded dahon sitting there too. Wow, the fold on a Dahon really does seem like an afterthought, almost like it should be folded only under dire emergencies. The Bromptons are SOOO neat in comparison.

    But like I said, I've not ridden either, just going by my numerous friends who love their Bromptons and the way they look, both unfolded and folded.

    Actually you posted in a timely fashion, as Brompton now have several outlets where we in London can hire from, much like the bike-hire schemes in different cities, and I will give it a shot. incidentally, I'd be interested in the 3 speed IGH, mudguards, ez wheels, straight bar model. You have great colour combinations to choose from as well.
    1992 Peugeot mtb, gone
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  4. #54
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Just sayin, if the Dahon uses a Derailleur shifter , its vulnerable, because the derailleur gets banged around
    when transported folded, because when you bang around a derailleur that happens.

    Brompton's 2 and 6 speed bikes use a unique part that does not stick out..
    it pushes the flanges on its pulley sideways.. and the chain tensioner lets it slip sideways.

  5. #55
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feijai View Post
    ... Greenspeed Scorchers, which are *the* best 349 tire. They are as fast as Schwalbe Kojaks, and are the largest, easily the most comfortable, and grippiest 349 tire on the market. And they are light. They essentially Pareto-dominate everything else. The Scorcher TR is the kevlar-belted version; I'd get that one...
    How's the puncture protection? That is one of the more important criteria in my book for a good commuting tire. Light weight isn't important considering that I usually haul around an extra 30lbs worth of stuff on my commute, sometimes more, so I don't see the point in saving nominal weight in a tire. As for grip, I can't remember when I last washed out in a turn on a bike or skidded during a panic stop (usually the rear wheel comes off of the ground because the front sticks so well) so having more of something I don't really need just because it "looks good on paper" seems senseless to me. I'd rather opt for a higher mileage tire. So no, I probably wouldn't consider Scorchers for commuting. They may be worth considering for sport riding but then I'd be doing that on my Bike Friday anyway, not my Brommie.
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by BassNotBass View Post
    How's the puncture protection?
    They're kevlar-belted (the TR versions anyway)

    So no, I probably wouldn't consider Scorchers for commuting. They may be worth considering for sport riding but then I'd be doing that on my Bike Friday anyway, not my Brommie.
    You missed the critical Scorcher feature: they're 349-40. They are big bouncy tires compared to the Marathons, and are quite a bit more comfortable riding. As close to a Big Apple as 349 can get.

  7. #57
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feijai View Post
    They're kevlar-belted (the TR versions anyway)...
    So were the tires that were punctured by a pebble of blunt glass which I replaced with Schwalbe Marathons.


    So how do you like your Scorchers?
    Last edited by BassNotBass; 12-04-13 at 06:49 AM.
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  8. #58
    Senior Member gringo_gus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
    Then why would you even say this? And what makes you think this is true? FYI,most Dahon components are standard parts used on many bikes. Just about everything on a Brompton is Brompton specific. BTW,I ordered an alloy seatpost for my Brompton through my dealer. After a year,they told me they couldn't get one. I can go to a Dahon dealer or several websites and get a Biologic post for my Dahon.

    Also,you do know that there are many times more Dahons than Bromptons,right? If Dahon had a 1% fail rate,and Brompton had a 10% fail rate,there would be more Dahons failing because there simply more Dahons out there.

    Brommies hold their value because they are expensive to begin with,and because they're all hand made. It's possible to walk into a Dahon dealer and buy anything in the lineup. But if you want a Brommie,you either pick what they have on hand,or order one and wait 1-2 months.
    Hmmm, as I have said before, I am impartial in this, having owned a Dahon, and now a Brommie which I like a lot, but am thinking of selling. Parts for Brommies, in England, are widely available, you can order from SJS cycles online, who usually have almost everything you want. Because they are good I haven't looked elsewhere, although to be honest, the only time I had to order parts anyway was when I owned a Bromcopy. I am not sure what your seat post issue was. The titanium posts did stop being produced, but otherwise, there have always been loads available.

    Contrary to what you say, however, not all Dahon parts are standard, not least because there are a lot of parts associated with the actually folding. On this list people have experienced difficulty getting parts sometimes, but you are right about the numbers of Dahons out there, etc. I think this might follow through into dealers who don't have a commitment to the product (Thor is the exception here).

    Whether Bromptons are expensive because they hold their value, or hold their value because they are expensive, is moot. They are, in my mind the bike with the best fold. But, much as I love it, it might be why I am selling it. I just can't afford to have that much money tied up in a bike which I worry about every time I leave it locked, or for which I carry a real heavy lock which makes all the titanium pointless.
    it aint the size of your wheels, its the rhythm of you cadence. And I got powergrips too.

  9. #59
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Yea I heard they get nicked often, in Britain, because they are many, popular,
    and so resell to someone else , readily through the auction /CL Anonymous internet.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by BassNotBass View Post
    So were the tires that were punctured by a pebble of blunt glass which I replaced with Schwalbe Marathons.


    So how do you like your Scorchers?
    Run over to the Bike Friday Yak group.. they're discussing tires right now... one commuter reported multiple flats in short order with the Scorchers on SF city streets and went back to Marathons (pluses in this case) and flat free.. Scorchers in the 406 size were also prone to sidewall cracking (without being left in the sun) .. I sent a set back for replacements..

  11. #61
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Just sayin, if the Dahon uses a Derailleur shifter , its vulnerable, because the derailleur gets banged around when transported folded, because when you bang around a derailleur that happens.
    Brompton's 2 and 6 speed bikes use a unique part that does not stick out..
    it pushes the flanges on its pulley sideways.. and the chain tensioner lets it slip sideways.
    You don't have to unbolt a derailleur to remove the rear wheel. Oh,and don't lose that bolt,because then the bike's unrideable. Plus,Dahon also has SS and IGH models.

    Quote Originally Posted by gringo_gus View Post
    Contrary to what you say, however, not all Dahon parts are standard, not least because there are a lot of parts associated with the actually folding.
    I was referring to the groupo,not the frameset. Derailleurs,shifters,brakes...all standard bits. Brompton 2spd derailleur,shifters,and calipers are all brand-specific. They can't be easily upgraded for nicer/lighter versions.

    C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport/Qualifier,Brompton S6L,Dahon Speed Pro TT

  12. #62
    Senior Member gringo_gus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
    You don't have to unbolt a derailleur to remove the rear wheel. Oh,and don't lose that bolt,because then the bike's unrideable. Plus,Dahon also has SS and IGH models.



    I was referring to the groupo,not the frameset. Derailleurs,shifters,brakes...all standard bits. Brompton 2spd derailleur,shifters,and calipers are all brand-specific. They can't be easily upgraded for nicer/lighter versions.
    Well, it is a bit of a false distinction. However, that said, I do actually agree. I suspect it probably only happened accidentally, but is now part of their business strategy that Bromptons brand-specific parts do limit the opportunity for upgrades with generic parts, and I for one would like to be able to do this, not just gearing - it would be nice to be able to use normal panniers, for example, as a matter of course. This tinkering with a bike is part of the fun of owning a bike for me, and why in the end I might sell it - I have a personal 'brompton buster' idea that I will share here if I can get it to work.

    However, not everyone is a build/rebuild enthusiast, and if you do what something solid, reliable, with a great fold, and are happy to stay with what you see is what you get, the the Brompton works.
    it aint the size of your wheels, its the rhythm of you cadence. And I got powergrips too.

  13. #63
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Thanks Bruce.
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  14. #64
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    worked on some , rear opening dropout, front opening standard derailleur claw hanger,

    so it had to be removed with wheel replacement for puncture repairs.

    FWIW,
    Custom: Bromfication has a CNC alloy replica chain tensioner for Ti-X Brompton, for further weight reduction

    A Glasgow Brompton shop modifies in Rohloff and SA 8 speed hubs & disc brakes to go into brommies.

    Uk builder even made a tandem out of 2 of them, Park at home, you can stand it up in the hall closet.
    Last edited by fietsbob; 12-05-13 at 08:59 AM.

  15. #65
    Senior Member bhkyte's Avatar
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    Just a casual observation.
    A poster spoke about more seeing more dahons than bromptons etc.

    I live near the train station in biKe friendly york. Which has a shop selling mainly bromptons attached to the station.

    What I notice is the majority of folders I see are not bromptons , but budget folders and dahons. However, at peak commuting times the bromptons appear on the roads.

    In the stations less than 50% of folders are brommies. But again on the real peak times I reckon more than 50% are.

    When I commuted very early out and a tad early for peak travel I used to see more dahons than other makes.

    Space at a premium seems to make the difference.
    Dual drive Mezzo (GOLD), Dual Drive Mezzo with bullbars (black), White Brompton thingy with Dahon Androes stem and bull bars. Birdie (old sytle) 7 speed. Downtube NS8. Birdie red.

  16. #66
    Senior Member Ozonation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bargainguy View Post
    There is at least one reason why Brommie resale values are so high: Reliability. It's my understanding that component fail rates are fairly low on Brommies but fairly high on Dahon, with better parts support from Brompton as far as availability and delivery. I have no objective data to back this up, though, so pure speculation.

    The Brommie is the ultimate multimodal commuter IMHO: Tiny fold, lifetime bike, incremental engineering. It does not excel at all things. Gearing can be limited and riding position can be wonky for some riders.
    Don't know anything about the reliability of Dahons, but that pretty much sums up my Brompton.
    Rivendell Sam Hillborne and Hunqapillar; Brompton M6R Sage Green; Salsa Mukluk 3 FAT Bike; Nerdy Academic; Nikonian; Wing Chun; and a Patridge in a Pear Tree.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceMetras View Post
    Run over to the Bike Friday Yak group.. they're discussing tires right now... one commuter reported multiple flats in short order with the Scorchers on SF city streets and went back to Marathons (pluses in this case) and flat free.. Scorchers in the 406 size were also prone to sidewall cracking (without being left in the sun) .. I sent a set back for replacements..
    Hmmm, it's not clear what model he's using. There are three different kinds: normal, kevlar belted ("TR"), and heavy-duty (which I think are discontinued). The normal ones will get tons of flats no doubt. And like Kojaks, Scorchers are slicks, so they'll pick up all sorts of road debris, which maybe increases puncturability; and thorns going in the sidewall will easily bypass even a belted tire.

    I've used both 349 Marathons and Scorchers on my tikit and have biked a lot in DC and on the brutal San Pietrini road surface in Rome. I've always bought TRs since they usually also have reflective sidewalls. I've had only a few flats with the Scorchers due to punctures: the vast majority are due to worn valve stems, and a few snakebites. The big issue I've had with Scorchers is the reflective sidewall material eventually cracking -- but that's *not* the underlying sidewall canvas, just the reflective stuff. Was that the issue you had?

    In truth though I don't buy these tires based on flat resistance -- if I needed that I'd buy Marathon supremes or something. I buy them because they are *far* more comfortable than my stock Marathons because they are so large, and way faster and grippier.

  18. #68
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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  19. #69
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    this kind of stuff makes me lose. my. mind.

    gotta say tho, they should have bagged those bromptons. being "right" isn't insurance against being thrown off the train at 3am in nowheresville, texas by a power trippin' dingleberry in a funny hat.

    after having a few similar encounters on subways and in doorman attended office buildings, i always use the bike cover before entering. i haven't done it yet, but if and when i do an amtrak/brompton trip, the bike will definitely go in an appropriately sized bag with handles.


  20. #70
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    worked on some , rear opening dropout, front opening standard derailleur claw hanger,
    so it had to be removed with wheel replacement for puncture repairs.
    Oh,come on now,when have you seen a modern bike with one of these? Yeah,I get them occasionally at my clinic,but only on vintage iron.

    Even with the Dual-Drive,I can pull the rear wheel on my SPTT way faster than I can the Brommie's. And my old Mu SL didn't even need a tool. Ditto my old Mezzo,for that matter.

    C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport/Qualifier,Brompton S6L,Dahon Speed Pro TT

  21. #71
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    they were 80's era dahon stuff maybe 'modern' is only post 2K now.


    no more 286

  22. #72
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
    ... Even with the Dual-Drive,I can pull the rear wheel on my SPTT way faster than I can the Brommie's...
    And that folks, can cause you to lose the race commute.
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  23. #73
    Good Ship Ruffles
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    I've used both types of kevlar tyres on my Brompton. The only time I've had an 'instant' puncture was when I rode over a pozidrive screw that was sitting in the road pointing upwards! The punctures I get are from flakes of glass. Unless you go over the tyre and pick them out every few weeks they're bound to work their way through eventually.

  24. #74
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BassNotBass View Post
    And that folks, can cause you to lose the race commute.
    Or just be a serious PITA at the side of the road.

    It's upper 40's,raining,and dark right now. Under those conditions,which would you rather deal with:

    Open V brake,pop QR?

    Open V brake,pop shift box,undo 2x15mm bolt?

    10mm to open brake,unscrew both ends of shift linkage(put it back on the bike so you don't lose it),unscrew 3mm bolt(put bolt back in bike so you don't lose it),unthread tensioner(put somewhere you won't lose or step on),undo 2x15mm bolt?

    C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport/Qualifier,Brompton S6L,Dahon Speed Pro TT

  25. #75
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
    Or just be a serious PITA at the side of the road.

    It's upper 40's,raining,and dark right now. Under those conditions,which would you rather deal with:

    Open V brake,pop QR?

    Open V brake,pop shift box,undo 2x15mm bolt?

    10mm to open brake,unscrew both ends of shift linkage(put it back on the bike so you don't lose it),unscrew 3mm bolt(put bolt back in bike so you don't lose it),unthread tensioner(put somewhere you won't lose or step on),undo 2x15mm bolt?
    none of the above.



    fill it. spin it. pump it. ride home. replace tube at leisure while listening to brandenburg concertos? priceless.

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