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  1. #101
    Senior Member ziqpy's Avatar
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    The Brompton reminds me of ya grandmother going to the shops.

    I saw the price difference, well before I check on part compatibility and pricing on parts.

    What clinched it for me is the Mu frame is really graceful with the nice arch throughout the bicycle. I'll compromise on the fold and slightly larger size just on that alone

    The Dahon website states the spec as budget to luxury based on the drivetrain mostly, all on the same frame. So with the Dahon, you can buy cheap, and upgrade to your pleasure.

    Kinda stuck with hard work on the Brompton to up the spec, and with a larger base price to boot.
    Last edited by ziqpy; 12-09-13 at 02:59 AM.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziqpy View Post
    The Brompton reminds me of ya grandmother going to the shops.

    I saw the price difference, well before I check on part compatibility and pricing on parts.

    What clinched it for me is the Mu frame is really graceful with the nice arch throughout the bicycle. I'll compromise on the fold and slightly larger size just on that alone

    The Dahon website states the spec as budget to luxury based on the drivetrain mostly, all on the same frame. So with the Dahon, you can buy cheap, and upgrade to your pleasure.

    Kinda stuck with hard work on the Brompton to up the spec, and with a larger base price to boot.

    I can see some price justification for Bromptons for people who can justify the high price tag. Being a commuter for many years, I find that sometimes it's cheaper to ride a bike and combined it with Seabus, trains and buses, park wherever I want and shop and ride. I pay $9 for a day pass (which is a little bit more expensive than say what other countries charge). But still, with gas and absorbent prices of parking in well off areas and in downtown, it does make sense to own a folder especially one that folds really small. That's the appeal of the Bromptons. And I see them now being sold in high end bike shops, shops that in previous past NEVER CARRIED a folder or too ashamed to carry any. The snobbish attitude you know. But the good thing is that, the customer is always right! In this case, there are customers who really want a Brompton for commuting and those who buy can afford an expensive bike especially when the store carry $3000 and up to $5000 bikes.

    What I find is that, many of these customers use the Brompton mainly as a multi-modal transport vehicle and the winning point is the "FOLDING SIZE". There's simply no comparison against my Speed Duo and the Brompton. Brompton is small, compact and just makes sense. Not to say that my Speed Duo isn't a viable transport vehicle, but people want prestige. They want luxury and when you're used to riding a nice Cervelo, have a Land Rover or a Porsche Cayenne parked outside your home, you ain't going to get a Speed Duo to add to your stable. That's simply ain't gonna happen.

    For the price of the Brompton, you can get a really luxurious Dahon or Tern, but you see people associate with prestige and Bromptons are rare like a BMW or Porsche or even a Ferrari. It's a conversational piece. My ugly duckling Speed Duo is hideous. But you know, I bought it as a theft proof transport vehicle which I am not afraid of locking up outside. I find it funny to see guys or gals dragging their Bromptons in side the shopping malls or grocery stores, jostling for a good position so it doesn't trip anyone.

    But there are some justification to people who needs one I suppose, but I suspect some people who own these bikes are just wanting to be associated with owning a Brompton. It's cool and it's a prestige. Nothing wrong buying with these aspirations.
    Trek 5000 carbon road bike
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  3. #103
    Senior Member Ozonation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziqpy View Post
    The Brompton reminds me of ya grandmother going to the shops.

    I saw the price difference, well before I check on part compatibility and pricing on parts.

    What clinched it for me is the Mu frame is really graceful with the nice arch throughout the bicycle. I'll compromise on the fold and slightly larger size just on that alone

    The Dahon website states the spec as budget to luxury based on the drivetrain mostly, all on the same frame. So with the Dahon, you can buy cheap, and upgrade to your pleasure.

    Kinda stuck with hard work on the Brompton to up the spec, and with a larger base price to boot.
    "ya grandmother", eh? Well, I don't know about your grandmother, but all the twentysomething university students think my Brompton is pretty bloody cool.

    If you like the "nice arch", more power to you! You'll find all sorts of people disagreeing about aesthetics. Just keep in mind what you want to buy a folding bike for.

    As for what the Dahon website says.... I wouldn't put all your faith into what any corporate website says, be it Dahon, Brompton, Tern, Citizen, Trek, Kona, etc. They're not lying and there's a lot of good information, but their objective is to sell their bike, so keep an open mind. Nothing replaces a bit of consumer investigation.
    Rivendell Sam Hillborne and Hunqapillar; Brompton M6R Sage Green; Salsa Mukluk 3 FAT Bike; Nerdy Academic; Nikonian; Wing Chun; and a Patridge in a Pear Tree.

  4. #104
    Senior Member ziqpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozonation View Post
    "ya grandmother", eh? Well, I don't know about your grandmother, but all the twentysomething university students think my Brompton is pretty bloody cool.

    If you like the "nice arch", more power to you! You'll find all sorts of people disagreeing about aesthetics. Just keep in mind what you want to buy a folding bike for.

    As for what the Dahon website says.... I wouldn't put all your faith into what any corporate website says, be it Dahon, Brompton, Tern, Citizen, Trek, Kona, etc. They're not lying and there's a lot of good information, but their objective is to sell their bike, so keep an open mind. Nothing replaces a bit of consumer investigation.
    I was pointing out a same frame is linked to what budget you have to equip it with.

    Folding bicycle will impress most, so some students is a pinch of salt.

    The brompton though functional is dated, and with proprietary components, anyone with consumer investigative skills will be put off.

    Back as a child growing up everyone knew that, a none triangular frame was for ladies in skirts. Don't know if that stigma exists in newer generations.

    Brompton relying on a cult following now like iPhones, and if thought more like a crown Vic / fired focus in concept. bike would be more popular with all the mods and aftermarket parts available for it.

    Sales drive improvements, and a small company that does not seem to invest in it, and can only hurt it. The bicycle market will proportionally grow with the increase in oil prices.

    The chap who did the cycle lanes used in New York, is doing the same for London. So really looking forward to my cyclists in all cities.

  5. #105
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziqpy View Post
    ...The brompton though functional is dated... anyone with consumer investigative skills will be put off....
    Uh, nope. Try again.
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  6. #106
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    In attempting to feel superior by expressing your opinion, you have done, quite, the opposite.





    Park the Bentley Just Outside the Congestion Taxed Zone and get Your Brommy out of the Boot.

    and go in to work on the LIBOR collusion at the bank in the City of London.
    Last edited by fietsbob; 12-09-13 at 01:31 PM.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    In attempting to feel superior by expressing your opinion, you have done, quite, the opposite.
    It is interesting that some judge a person by the bicycle he rides, calling him a lemming or a member of a cult based on the brand. I try not to judge people, but must admit I start to form an opinion of a man based on how he conducts himself and treats others.

  8. #108
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Our British poster may be Jaded by seeing so many of them, one of the few Things still Made in UK

    other than sausage rolls the Sun Page 3 and will & kate's Kid.

  9. #109
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    As for the original subject, the OP wondered whether the price of the Brompton was worth the additional cost above a Dahon. His current use is as a back-up bike and for traveling by car or bus. I would say that if the Dahon fits in the car with the other things he wishes to bring and if it fits in the available space on the bus and fold time is acceptable, unless he is well off financially and wants to try something different, he should save his money.

    Although i was initially surprised by the relatively high price of the Brompton, after applying my "consumer investigative skills" I determined that it was the wisest choice for my application. I considered many other options but concluded that it was the right tool for the job - multi-modal travel with no luggage in excess of what I could transport on the bike itself, no trailer or rigid case. I guess in that regard, I am among the lemmings who have come to the same conclusion.

    I can see why others would favor it as a commuter or for local multimodal trips.

    As for my opinion of Dahon riders, I assume that they are riding their bike of choice but otherwise do not generalize about them.

  10. #110
    Good Ship Ruffles
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    In the UK many of us travel on crowded commuter trains with many passengers standing. From what I see the only folding bike that is small, will not stain other passengers clothing and will stay upright on a moving train is a Brompton. These are essential criteria for me.

    Pity they're so expensive. I wonder how much Brompton spend on legal fees defending 'the fold'!?

  11. #111
    Hello zebede's Avatar
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    http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/brompton-review/

    This link is to a review from the London Cyclist News letter dated 2011, and its typical pro Brommie hype. (would you expect anything else....long yawn)

    However what is interesting is the quality of the comments after the "review".
    Last edited by zebede; 12-11-13 at 10:52 AM. Reason: Modified after critical analysis by third party

  12. #112
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zebede View Post
    ... However what is interesting is the quality of the comments after the "review". A much more balanced analysis from the target market.
    The comments are entertaining. I had my hearty laugh of the morning.
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  13. #113
    cpg
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    Senior Member cpg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zebede View Post
    http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/brompton-review/

    This link is to a review from the London Cyclist News letter dated 2011, and its typical pro Brommie hype. (would you expect anything else....long yawn)

    However what is interesting is the quality of the comments after the "review". A much more balanced analysis from the target market.
    That was quite different the usual comments one reads on here, definitely a well balanced range of opinions on that link, just goes to show that everyone is different and looks for different things in a bike to the next person.
    Mezzo I4 (converted to dual drive), Whyte PRST-1, Trek 1200, Dahon Jack, Bickerton Portable (upgraded).

  14. #114
    Senior Member Ozonation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zebede View Post
    http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/brompton-review/

    This link is to a review from the London Cyclist News letter dated 2011, and its typical pro Brommie hype. (would you expect anything else....long yawn)

    However what is interesting is the quality of the comments after the "review". A much more balanced analysis from the target market.
    Let me understand what you're claiming - that the comments people posted to the website after the review constitute some sort of "balanced analysis"?

    No. They unequivocally do not form any sort of valid analysis. They are:
    - anonymous or unverified as to the commenter
    - represent anecdotal or individual experiences
    - have no statistical credibility
    - has no survey control in terms of response rates or demographic make up
    - have not been reviewed for technical, logical, or comprehensive quality

    I am neither supporting or criticizing a Brompton bike with this post.

    The comments simply represent the opinions of whoever decided to write in; just as what is going in this forum. Note that the review itself of the Brompton is also not much better either in terms of being a credible analysis, but at least we know who wrote the article.

    Take the comments therefore for what they are: an assortment of individual opinions based on selected individual experiences - do what you want with them, but don't assign them false authority.
    Rivendell Sam Hillborne and Hunqapillar; Brompton M6R Sage Green; Salsa Mukluk 3 FAT Bike; Nerdy Academic; Nikonian; Wing Chun; and a Patridge in a Pear Tree.

  15. #115
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Leave the money in your pocket and ride the BUS, instead.

  16. #116
    Senior Member ThorUSA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozonation View Post
    Let me understand what you're claiming - that the comments people posted to the website after the review constitute some sort of "balanced analysis"?

    No. They unequivocally do not form any sort of valid analysis. They are:
    - anonymous or unverified as to the commenter
    - represent anecdotal or individual experiences
    - have no statistical credibility
    - has no survey control in terms of response rates or demographic make up
    - have not been reviewed for technical, logical, or comprehensive quality

    I am neither supporting or criticizing a Brompton bike with this post.

    The comments simply represent the opinions of whoever decided to write in; just as what is going in this forum. Note that the review itself of the Brompton is also not much better either in terms of being a credible analysis, but at least we know who wrote the article.

    Take the comments therefore for what they are: an assortment of individual opinions based on selected individual experiences - do what you want with them, but don't assign them false authority.
    that would be also true for this and other forum posts, right ?
    Just sayin without even have read them
    Best Thor
    Having fun selling Terns and Dahons for a living. My personal website is also my business website, same as my profile name, therefore no link given to follow forum rules.

  17. #117
    Senior Member Ozonation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThorUSA View Post
    that would be also true for this and other forum posts, right ?
    Just sayin without even have read them
    Best Thor
    Yes. I am not so arrogant to exclude myself. If you're referring to the latest debacle in the helmet thread, I tried to avoid just arguing and instead, drew from the published literature in engineering, medicine, and science to support my opinion towards the end. So, do I think I have presented an informed opinion? Yes. Just as I know you are a bike dealer (I believe) so therefore I will accede that on matters of business, you probably have a more informed opinion than I on such related issues. Is my opinion on a bicycle related issue worth as much as a peer-reviewed study? Absolutely not!

    Cheers!
    Rivendell Sam Hillborne and Hunqapillar; Brompton M6R Sage Green; Salsa Mukluk 3 FAT Bike; Nerdy Academic; Nikonian; Wing Chun; and a Patridge in a Pear Tree.

  18. #118
    Senior Member ThorUSA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozonation View Post
    Yes. I am not so arrogant to exclude myself. If you're referring to the latest debacle in the helmet thread, I tried to avoid just arguing and instead, drew from the published literature in engineering, medicine, and science to support my opinion towards the end. So, do I think I have presented an informed opinion? Yes. Just as I know you are a bike dealer (I believe) so therefore I will accede that on matters of business, you probably have a more informed opinion than I on such related issues. Is my opinion on a bicycle related issue worth as much as a peer-reviewed study? Absolutely not!

    Cheers!
    was not meant as critique at all, I agree fully with your post :-) There are employees of certain bike companies trying to earn some brownie points ( without knowing of their bosses, who would not allow such. ( at least in the past here too)
    There are 15 peeps who have a problem with one brand ..... rightfully or not ... but said brand is selling 200 times more bikes than the next one ... therefore the opinion is skewed.
    and and and

    SOmetimes the Interweb is a funny spectacle ... :-)

    Example over at the Tern forums was a person who "chimed in " about seatposts slipping down ... after a long back and forth , comes to find out that the person did not know that the seatpost clamp can be adjusted .... a couple terns :-) later the seatpost didnt slip anymore ...

    :-)
    Best Thor
    Having fun selling Terns and Dahons for a living. My personal website is also my business website, same as my profile name, therefore no link given to follow forum rules.

  19. #119
    Senior Member Ozonation's Avatar
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    Yes, the web is a funny place these days. I may be blunt and direct (sorry zebede), but I try not say anything to anyone I wouldn't say in person.

    To date, I find the most civil forum has been this one (folding bikes), but now and then, it gets out of hand, and this thread is almost heading that direction. If you want fun, you should look into the helmet thread under the safety forum. Good grief. Now, I enjoy a good debate as much as anyone, and nobody is above a little teasing, but when you start getting insulted... hey, time to put a lid on it people!
    Rivendell Sam Hillborne and Hunqapillar; Brompton M6R Sage Green; Salsa Mukluk 3 FAT Bike; Nerdy Academic; Nikonian; Wing Chun; and a Patridge in a Pear Tree.

  20. #120
    The Recumbent Quant cplager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozonation View Post
    hey, time to put a lid on it people!
    Don't try and start the helmet thread here...
    http://Charles.Plager.net
    http://RecumbentQuant.blogspot.com

  21. #121
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    this thread is bananas..



    and...


  22. #122
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    Hey Ozonation,

    Do you prefer your Brompton or your Rivendell for commuting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozonation View Post
    Yes, the web is a funny place these days. I may be blunt and direct (sorry zebede), but I try not say anything to anyone I wouldn't say in person.

    To date, I find the most civil forum has been this one (folding bikes), but now and then, it gets out of hand, and this thread is almost heading that direction. If you want fun, you should look into the helmet thread under the safety forum. Good grief. Now, I enjoy a good debate as much as anyone, and nobody is above a little teasing, but when you start getting insulted... hey, time to put a lid on it people!

  23. #123
    Senior Member Ozonation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cplager View Post
    Don't try and start the helmet thread here...
    Not a chance!

    Quote Originally Posted by melri View Post
    Hey Ozonation... Do you prefer your Brompton or your Rivendell for commuting?
    Great question... well, I admittedly am not commuting much these days via bike because of a change in my family situation, but when I was doing so more regularly, I have to say the go-to bike is the Brompton. The ride is good, the fold is amazing, and it tucks out of the way very easily. My Rivendells ride as smooth as silk, but they are full size bikes and so I need to actively think where I'm going to put them, do I haul them up stairs, the elevator, etc. These issues are not really that big of a deal, but they can "add up".

    Here's a completely trivial example of what I mean. One thing that I think gets overlooked about folding bikes is - how easy is it to carry the folded bike itself? This is the inbetween step of riding it and then storing it at your destination. The Brompton folds in such as way that it can be wheeled, like a rolling suitcase (note: serious consider better wheels, like rollerblade wheels - a cheap and easy aftermarket modification), and bags can be cleverly attached to it while it rolls. It's not perfect, but it works pretty well. The Terns and Dahons, I believe, don't quite fold up that way, and are a little bulkier. This is not a negative: it's simply the way it is.

    In my old office, the distance between front door and my office was maybe a 20 metre walk. So, if I could not roll the bike, it would not have been a big deal to just carry it into my office. I'm now in a new building, and the walk from the front door to my office is 4 to 5 X the distance, and has more stairs. So, a easy-to-move form factor when folded is a much bigger deal.

    So, if the fold and ease-of-use-when-folded are the most important to you, then the Brompton is probably what you want. But if they are less important, then other models might fit you much better. The Terns and Dahons come in a lot more variations, some of which are very appealing. I personally wish Brompton had a slightly larger version in 20" wheels because I could then get some better, fatter tires for rougher road conditions. But for me, I will trade off the comfort for a better fold.

    Hope this helps!
    Rivendell Sam Hillborne and Hunqapillar; Brompton M6R Sage Green; Salsa Mukluk 3 FAT Bike; Nerdy Academic; Nikonian; Wing Chun; and a Patridge in a Pear Tree.

  24. #124
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    I came across your blog from a year ago, and not sure if you are still active and also have a TT and have had 6 dahons. the tt is a very high quality and unusual bike - actually I just bought it for 900 and was used once--not sure when they stopped building them. the only thong is and reported by the race guys is the brakes,, so I will put on kool pads and see. as far as the brompton goes,, torn over this one,, and believe the brompton is for folding and travelling - the dahon is called a folding bike but in my opinion it isn't,, and as far as brompton goes,, the best deal is 100 off of a 1700 bike and tax,, anyway your views on ttt and brompton would be great or where to buy a brompton,,I am in so cal,, best stu

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