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Old 02-07-14, 06:15 PM   #51
zebede
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Originally Posted by chagzuki View Post
I'm assuming that there's significant flex in the frame since it's so narrow in the middle region; a very odd design choice it seems to me. Perhaps the styling of the main tube and cable routing is enough to get past any copyright issues.
Incidently, the Brompton cable routing is thought through properly with regards to luggage.

One of the advantages of Hydro Formed aluminium is the ability build complex shapes that only place material where it needs to be. A bike frame is like a truss it bears the least amount of load in the center but bears all the weight on the two ends. Traditional steel round bike tubing eliminates unnecessary material in the center by "butting". With Hydro formed Aluminium not only can you eliminate unnecessary material but you can change the cross sectional shape to better resist the expected forces.

Another characteristic of Aluminium bike frames is they tend to be stiffer than steel frames.

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Old 02-07-14, 07:18 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by DoubleDiamonDog View Post
Where there's a will there's away.

Maybe you can buy a Brompton and send it to Keyven and he will buy a MIT and send it to you with $300.

Win win...
I don't know, it seems like a huge gamble to me! Besides, how many times have we seen these Brompton cloans come and go after several years. It goes to show you can't make a quality bike for too much less than what Brompton sells for.
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Old 02-07-14, 07:28 PM   #53
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MIT rear drop

Brompton drop out
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File Type: jpg mit dropout.jpg (104.9 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpg 2012-06-19-14.43.39.jpg (68.2 KB, 59 views)

Last edited by zebede; 02-08-14 at 05:21 AM.
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Old 02-07-14, 07:49 PM   #54
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Both look like stamped steel. Only the tubing will be chromoly steel.
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Old 02-07-14, 07:58 PM   #55
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On the question where to buy a Brompton for less, the answer is nowhere. Brompton have always had the strictest pricing policy that no shop may sell the product for less than the price set by Brompton. Very early in the company's history, only a few small shops were willing to support them. Then when the product took off, larger chains wanted to offer it at a discount, but they decided that this would put the smaller early supporters at a disadvantage. So now they have the policy that anybody can sell Bromptons but if they are caught selling them at a discount, their license to sell is revoked. Also, no online sales. You can pay for one online but you have to go and pick it up.

So the other side of the coin is, because there is a waiting list, some operators can opt to charge more especially if everyone in a small country does the same thing. You can't buy online so they can't be bypassed.
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Old 02-07-14, 09:25 PM   #56
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Makes you wonder how they stay in business...
Well, as I've mentioned in a previous post, nothing will change for a while, at least.

Even if a Asia-made bike with better quality and specs comes out tomorrow, it'll take a fair amount of luck and marketing and testing - which takes time - before a not-insignificant number of people will take notice.

Still, some people will continue to whisper suspiciously that "it can't possibly be very good because it's not at the price level I need to pay to feel special" and dismiss it without ever trying or touching one. In the MIT V8 case, they seem to be using several branded, non-proprietary QUALITY parts - thereby cutting costs - and surely must be a bonus for people who love to tinker with their bikes.

Isn't it far better to have that option rather than be chained to the Brompton's proprietary-parts model due to a distinct lack of choice?

Most Japanese car brands - including Toyota - started off by copying European/US car designs but are now fully appreciated for their own distinctive look and quality. In 2013, Lexus AND Toyota topped 2013 US reliability ratings. It's plain and simple market forces at work, and we're all better off for it.
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Old 02-07-14, 09:45 PM   #57
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On the question where to buy a Brompton for less, the answer is nowhere. Brompton have always had the strictest pricing policy that no shop may sell the product for less than the price set by Brompton...

... So the other side of the coin is, because there is a waiting list, some operators can opt to charge more especially if everyone in a small country does the same thing. You can't buy online so they can't be bypassed.


You are probably right, but that's exactly why DDD offered to ship one over (or something). All the sites I've found don't do overseas shipping.

The Singapore shop most definitely charge more than most other countries, probably because there are more cyclists here than ever and they're the only distributor.
The mainland measures 49 kilometres (30 mi) from east to west and 25 kilometres (16 mi) from north to south. (Wikipedia)

That makes it quite ideal to get a bike - especially since the government is building a link of parks that will traverse the entire island. Doesn't help that the starting price of a car - let's say a new smallest 4-door Toyota sedan - starts at roughly US$95,000.


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Old 02-08-14, 12:40 AM   #58
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MIT rear drop out chrome molly

Brompton drop out, stamped steel
You should go for it zebede. I think you would like it better than the Mezzo or Bike Friday. Work out an exchange with Keyven and you'll be set!
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Old 02-08-14, 05:20 AM   #59
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There are ways to evolve the brompton design but I don't see the clones having a serious attempt at doing so. Unlike Brompton they have free reign to innovate without having to support product lines, so there's certainly potential for something special. I've wanted to redesign aspects of the Brompton for a long time.
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Old 02-08-14, 06:07 AM   #60
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Industry Standard Parts

MIT
Industry Standard attachment points and components!
MANY price and quality level choices, easy to find replacements parts or upgrades in your LBS.
Country of Origin: Taiwan


Brompton
Non- Industry Standard.
Limited availability
Low quality
Upgrade or replacement cost High.
Country of Origin: Taiwan


I commute daily on a 30 year old bicycle which use Industry Standard Parts. This bike has parts from Switzerland, France, Japan, Taiwan, Mainland China, America, Germany, Australia and the UK. The parts are interchangeable over the planet and over time. To me this a GREAT reason to consider the MIT.

it equates to HIGHER QUALITY at a LOWER COST w/more choices ya gotta love it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg MIT HB.jpg (100.9 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg GearTriggerBrakeLever1.jpg (71.5 KB, 21 views)

Last edited by zebede; 02-08-14 at 07:14 AM. Reason: added more countries
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Old 02-08-14, 07:18 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jur View Post
Both look like stamped steel. Only the tubing will be chromoly steel.
Thank you for the correction and clarification, original post edited
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Old 02-08-14, 08:06 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by zebede View Post
MIT
Industry Standard attachment points and components!
MANY price and quality level choices, easy to find replacements parts or upgrades in your LBS.
Country of Origin: Taiwan


Brompton
Non- Industry Standard.
Limited availability
Low quality
Upgrade or replacement cost High.
Country of Origin: Taiwan


I commute daily on a 30 year old bicycle which use Industry Standard Parts. This bike has parts from Switzerland, France, Japan, Taiwan, Mainland China, America, Germany, Australia and the UK. The parts are interchangeable over the planet and over time. To me this a GREAT reason to consider the MIT.

it equates to HIGHER QUALITY at a LOWER COST w/more choices ya gotta love it.
Wow, biased, and painting a distorted picture. I take it you love your MIT and hate Brompton folding bikes. I can tell because I have a keen eye for the obvious.
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Old 02-08-14, 08:32 AM   #63
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Wow, biased, and painting a distorted picture. I take it you love your MIT and hate Brompton folding bikes. I can tell because I have a keen eye for the obvious.
+1

Brompton is low quality? Made in Taiwan? LOL!
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Old 02-08-14, 09:46 AM   #64
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+1

Brompton is low quality? Made in Taiwan? LOL!
Thank you for the opportunity to clarify:

Yes the shifters and brakes that are pictured above are Not the best quality, expensive, Non Industry Standard and are made in Taiwan.

Yes, I would whole heartedly agree the with your implication that the frame is of high quality and made in the UK.

Though if you spend $2000 or even $1000 dollars on a bicycle it will usually have cast drop outs not stamped steel as is usually found on the lowest quality bicycles.

Never the lessThe Brompton is adorned with lower quality, expensive proprietary parts primarily NOT made in the UK.

To stay on topic here is another picture of the MIT V8.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...0048870&type=3
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File Type: jpg mit folded.jpg (100.0 KB, 42 views)
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Old 02-08-14, 10:16 AM   #65
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So will it fit into the B&W case? Will it fit into the TSA X-ray channel? Will it take the T-bag + lamp underneath in the front? Will the derailleur survive curb riding? Any single of those can be a deal-killer from my perspective.
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Old 02-08-14, 10:32 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by zebede View Post
Thank you for the opportunity to clarify:

Yes the shifters and brakes that are pictured above are Not the best quality, expensive, Non Industry Standard and are made in Taiwan.

Yes, I would whole heartedly agree the with your implication that the frame is of high quality and made in the UK.

Though if you spend $2000 or even $1000 dollars on a bicycle it will usually have cast drop outs not stamped steel as is usually found on the lowest quality bicycles.

Never the lessThe Brompton is adorned with lower quality, expensive proprietary parts primarily NOT made in the UK.

To stay on topic here is another picture of the MIT V8.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...0048870&type=3
Dude, those are the old brake levers you have pictured up above. They don't sell those anymore. And I agree, I like the new Brompton brake levers waaaay better. That was one thing Brompton needed to update
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Old 02-08-14, 10:35 AM   #67
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If one is concerned about proprietary parts, which you obviously are zebede, there are many options for a folding bicycle, and at less cost than a MIT.

Do you know if MIT uses non-proprietary parts for the hinge mechanism? It will be interesting to see how MIT’s reputation for support develops over time. Perhaps there will be no issues with the hydro-formed frame and/or it’s connection to the hinge components. Perhaps if there are such issues, MIT will provide outstanding support.

Speaking personally, if choosing between two options that were otherwise equal, I would go with non-proprietary parts over proprietary parts, for the reasons you have given. In this case, however proprietary parts result in a choice between two options that are not equal. We have often heard the line “folds almost as small as a Brompton” and we hear it again regarding the MIT. If the dimensions published by each manufacturer are accurate, the folded Bromton is 55% of the volume of the folded MIT. That means that the MIT will not fit next to my legs between the seats of the bus that I ride two blocks from my house. That also means that I cannot check a MIT as standard luggage when when I hop on a plane. When traveling with my bike I only take a Brompton T-bag, even when travelling internationally for 3 weeks - perhaps MIT will develop a useful luggage carrying system with non-proprietary parts that will work with their cable routing, but at first glance it looks like a challenge. For some owners these issues will not matter and the MIT may be worthy of their consideration.
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Old 02-08-14, 10:45 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
I don't know, it seems like a huge gamble to me! Besides, how many times have we seen these Brompton cloans come and go after several years. It goes to show you can't make a quality bike for too much less than what Brompton sells for.
Not sure I agree.for example; Mezzo out specs the brompton and was cheaper.
Lots of factors here. Market forces, hype, buying ha bits, established products. It is a tad restrictive to suggest that a manufacture cant undercut brompton.

They are not a budget bike manufactor.

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Old 02-08-14, 04:29 PM   #69
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So will it fit into the B&W case? Will it fit into the TSA X-ray channel? Will it take the T-bag + lamp underneath in the front?
No wish to take my Brompton on a plane,and never used my front carrier block,so for me these are non-issues. I'd much rather save a couple pounds and be able to remove the rear wheel without tools.

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Will the derailleur survive curb riding?
Never had an issue with my Mezzo or Mu SL. I have a client who's been to my clinic several times with a Helios SL;her derailleur hangs just as low as the MIT's and she hasn't had an issue. The Helios is her only bike and she rides it every day.
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Old 02-08-14, 06:54 PM   #70
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No wish to take my Brompton on a plane,and never used my front carrier block,so for me these are non-issues. I'd much rather save a couple pounds and be able to remove the rear wheel without tools.
Along those lines, in my round-the-world observations, the majority of folder owners never folds their bikes and presumably does not even know how to fold. With this it should not actually matter whether the folder folds.
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Old 02-08-14, 11:47 PM   #71
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nope. none .. never seen them .. you brought it up? your idea and risk ..

I own a Brompton ..

like sturmey archer hubs every spare part can be found_ retro-compatible..

thru their dealers ..

dis at your choice..

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Old 02-09-14, 06:56 AM   #72
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The MIT also comes with an internal gear option, employing the Shimano Nexus 7.

http://www.mitcycle.com/en/products/...d=detail&aid=4





I have pulled apart and rebuilt 50 year old Sturney Archer hubs They are fantastic. I have read that the tolerances and mfg quality has even improved since they were sold and moved to Taiwan. The only drawback for the Brompton model is that it is non industry standard width. You can't put any body else's Hub in a Brompton, can you?
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File Type: jpg PRO-BP01 white.jpg (101.2 KB, 24 views)
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Old 02-09-14, 07:13 AM   #73
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So will it fit into the B&W case? Will it fit into the TSA X-ray channel? Will it take the T-bag + lamp underneath in the front? Will the derailleur survive curb riding? Any single of those can be a deal-killer from my perspective.
MIT (IGH version) Folded size: 61*36*67 cm (LxWxH)



Don't know if it meets your dimensional criteria.

Your Bike Friday NWT or the Dahon HAT 060 do not.
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Old 02-09-14, 07:23 AM   #74
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The MIT also comes with an internal gear option, employing the Shimano Nexus 7.

http://www.mitcycle.com/en/products/...d=detail&aid=4





I have pulled apart and rebuilt 50 year old Sturney Archer hubs They are fantastic. I have read that the tolerances and mfg quality has even improved since they were sold and moved to Taiwan. The only drawback for the Brompton model is that it is non industry standard width. You can't put any body else's Hub in a Brompton, can you?
The non-industry standard narrower hub is one of the reasons the folded Brompton in more than 3.5" narrower than the folded MIT, which may not matter to some but makes a huge difference as to how I can transport the bike, as mentioned above. On the other hand, being able to "put any body else's hub in a Brompton" doesn't matter in the least to me. If I ever need to replace I am confident that Brompton will have what I need and I understand that it will cost me more than a non-proprietary part. How often do you replace your internally geared hubs?
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Old 02-09-14, 07:34 AM   #75
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I think the hub issue is more to do with the user wanting the option to choose the range and number of gears rather than replacing the hub due to wear or mechanical failure. I don't think the hub accounts entirely for the additional width of the MIT. Looking at the photos I suspect quick release pedals would help take at least 1" off the width.
The MIT V8 would be an excellent candidate for a Sham dual drive hub.
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