Anyone have any experience with the MIT V8? (aka brompton clone)
#51
Hello
I'm assuming that there's significant flex in the frame since it's so narrow in the middle region; a very odd design choice it seems to me. Perhaps the styling of the main tube and cable routing is enough to get past any copyright issues.
Incidently, the Brompton cable routing is thought through properly with regards to luggage.
Incidently, the Brompton cable routing is thought through properly with regards to luggage.
One of the advantages of Hydro Formed aluminium is the ability build complex shapes that only place material where it needs to be. A bike frame is like a truss it bears the least amount of load in the center but bears all the weight on the two ends. Traditional steel round bike tubing eliminates unnecessary material in the center by "butting". With Hydro formed Aluminium not only can you eliminate unnecessary material but you can change the cross sectional shape to better resist the expected forces.
Another characteristic of Aluminium bike frames is they tend to be stiffer than steel frames.
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
10 Posts
I don't know, it seems like a huge gamble to me! Besides, how many times have we seen these Brompton cloans come and go after several years. It goes to show you can't make a quality bike for too much less than what Brompton sells for.
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Albany, WA
Posts: 7,393
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
On the question where to buy a Brompton for less, the answer is nowhere. Brompton have always had the strictest pricing policy that no shop may sell the product for less than the price set by Brompton. Very early in the company's history, only a few small shops were willing to support them. Then when the product took off, larger chains wanted to offer it at a discount, but they decided that this would put the smaller early supporters at a disadvantage. So now they have the policy that anybody can sell Bromptons but if they are caught selling them at a discount, their license to sell is revoked. Also, no online sales. You can pay for one online but you have to go and pick it up.
So the other side of the coin is, because there is a waiting list, some operators can opt to charge more especially if everyone in a small country does the same thing. You can't buy online so they can't be bypassed.
So the other side of the coin is, because there is a waiting list, some operators can opt to charge more especially if everyone in a small country does the same thing. You can't buy online so they can't be bypassed.
#56
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,143
Bikes: Fully customized 11-spd MTB built on 2014 Santa Cruz 5010 frame; Brompton S2E-X 2014; Brompton M3E 2014
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Well, as I've mentioned in a previous post, nothing will change for a while, at least.
Even if a Asia-made bike with better quality and specs comes out tomorrow, it'll take a fair amount of luck and marketing and testing - which takes time - before a not-insignificant number of people will take notice.
Still, some people will continue to whisper suspiciously that "it can't possibly be very good because it's not at the price level I need to pay to feel special" and dismiss it without ever trying or touching one. In the MIT V8 case, they seem to be using several branded, non-proprietary QUALITY parts - thereby cutting costs - and surely must be a bonus for people who love to tinker with their bikes.
Isn't it far better to have that option rather than be chained to the Brompton's proprietary-parts model due to a distinct lack of choice?
Most Japanese car brands - including Toyota - started off by copying European/US car designs but are now fully appreciated for their own distinctive look and quality. In 2013, Lexus AND Toyota topped 2013 US reliability ratings. It's plain and simple market forces at work, and we're all better off for it.
Even if a Asia-made bike with better quality and specs comes out tomorrow, it'll take a fair amount of luck and marketing and testing - which takes time - before a not-insignificant number of people will take notice.
Still, some people will continue to whisper suspiciously that "it can't possibly be very good because it's not at the price level I need to pay to feel special" and dismiss it without ever trying or touching one. In the MIT V8 case, they seem to be using several branded, non-proprietary QUALITY parts - thereby cutting costs - and surely must be a bonus for people who love to tinker with their bikes.
Isn't it far better to have that option rather than be chained to the Brompton's proprietary-parts model due to a distinct lack of choice?
Most Japanese car brands - including Toyota - started off by copying European/US car designs but are now fully appreciated for their own distinctive look and quality. In 2013, Lexus AND Toyota topped 2013 US reliability ratings. It's plain and simple market forces at work, and we're all better off for it.
#57
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,143
Bikes: Fully customized 11-spd MTB built on 2014 Santa Cruz 5010 frame; Brompton S2E-X 2014; Brompton M3E 2014
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
On the question where to buy a Brompton for less, the answer is nowhere. Brompton have always had the strictest pricing policy that no shop may sell the product for less than the price set by Brompton...
... So the other side of the coin is, because there is a waiting list, some operators can opt to charge more especially if everyone in a small country does the same thing. You can't buy online so they can't be bypassed.
... So the other side of the coin is, because there is a waiting list, some operators can opt to charge more especially if everyone in a small country does the same thing. You can't buy online so they can't be bypassed.
You are probably right, but that's exactly why DDD offered to ship one over (or something). All the sites I've found don't do overseas shipping.
The Singapore shop most definitely charge more than most other countries, probably because there are more cyclists here than ever and they're the only distributor. The mainland measures 49 kilometres (30 mi) from east to west and 25 kilometres (16 mi) from north to south. (Wikipedia)
That makes it quite ideal to get a bike - especially since the government is building a link of parks that will traverse the entire island. Doesn't help that the starting price of a car - let's say a new smallest 4-door Toyota sedan - starts at roughly US$95,000.
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 449
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,984
Bikes: Brompton, Dahon Vitesse D5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
There are ways to evolve the brompton design but I don't see the clones having a serious attempt at doing so. Unlike Brompton they have free reign to innovate without having to support product lines, so there's certainly potential for something special. I've wanted to redesign aspects of the Brompton for a long time.
#60
Hello
Industry Standard Parts
MIT
Industry Standard attachment points and components!
MANY price and quality level choices, easy to find replacements parts or upgrades in your LBS.
Country of Origin: Taiwan
Brompton
Non- Industry Standard.
Limited availability
Low quality
Upgrade or replacement cost High.
Country of Origin: Taiwan
I commute daily on a 30 year old bicycle which use Industry Standard Parts. This bike has parts from Switzerland, France, Japan, Taiwan, Mainland China, America, Germany, Australia and the UK. The parts are interchangeable over the planet and over time. To me this a GREAT reason to consider the MIT.
it equates to HIGHER QUALITY at a LOWER COST w/more choices ya gotta love it.
Industry Standard attachment points and components!
MANY price and quality level choices, easy to find replacements parts or upgrades in your LBS.
Country of Origin: Taiwan
Brompton
Non- Industry Standard.
Limited availability
Low quality
Upgrade or replacement cost High.
Country of Origin: Taiwan
I commute daily on a 30 year old bicycle which use Industry Standard Parts. This bike has parts from Switzerland, France, Japan, Taiwan, Mainland China, America, Germany, Australia and the UK. The parts are interchangeable over the planet and over time. To me this a GREAT reason to consider the MIT.
it equates to HIGHER QUALITY at a LOWER COST w/more choices ya gotta love it.
Last edited by zebede; 02-08-14 at 07:14 AM. Reason: added more countries
#61
Hello
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
MIT
Industry Standard attachment points and components!
MANY price and quality level choices, easy to find replacements parts or upgrades in your LBS.
Country of Origin: Taiwan
Brompton
Non- Industry Standard.
Limited availability
Low quality
Upgrade or replacement cost High.
Country of Origin: Taiwan
I commute daily on a 30 year old bicycle which use Industry Standard Parts. This bike has parts from Switzerland, France, Japan, Taiwan, Mainland China, America, Germany, Australia and the UK. The parts are interchangeable over the planet and over time. To me this a GREAT reason to consider the MIT.
it equates to HIGHER QUALITY at a LOWER COST w/more choices ya gotta love it.
Industry Standard attachment points and components!
MANY price and quality level choices, easy to find replacements parts or upgrades in your LBS.
Country of Origin: Taiwan
Brompton
Non- Industry Standard.
Limited availability
Low quality
Upgrade or replacement cost High.
Country of Origin: Taiwan
I commute daily on a 30 year old bicycle which use Industry Standard Parts. This bike has parts from Switzerland, France, Japan, Taiwan, Mainland China, America, Germany, Australia and the UK. The parts are interchangeable over the planet and over time. To me this a GREAT reason to consider the MIT.
it equates to HIGHER QUALITY at a LOWER COST w/more choices ya gotta love it.
#64
Hello
Thank you for the opportunity to clarify:
Yes the shifters and brakes that are pictured above are Not the best quality, expensive, Non Industry Standard and are made in Taiwan.
Yes, I would whole heartedly agree the with your implication that the frame is of high quality and made in the UK.
Though if you spend $2000 or even $1000 dollars on a bicycle it will usually have cast drop outs not stamped steel as is usually found on the lowest quality bicycles.
Never the lessThe Brompton is adorned with lower quality, expensive proprietary parts primarily NOT made in the UK.
To stay on topic here is another picture of the MIT V8.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...0048870&type=3
Yes the shifters and brakes that are pictured above are Not the best quality, expensive, Non Industry Standard and are made in Taiwan.
Yes, I would whole heartedly agree the with your implication that the frame is of high quality and made in the UK.
Though if you spend $2000 or even $1000 dollars on a bicycle it will usually have cast drop outs not stamped steel as is usually found on the lowest quality bicycles.
Never the lessThe Brompton is adorned with lower quality, expensive proprietary parts primarily NOT made in the UK.
To stay on topic here is another picture of the MIT V8.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...0048870&type=3
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,694
Bikes: Trek 730 (quad), 720 & 830, Bike Friday NWT, Brompton M36R & M6R, Dahon HAT060 & HT060, ...
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 834 Post(s)
Liked 332 Times
in
247 Posts
So will it fit into the B&W case? Will it fit into the TSA X-ray channel? Will it take the T-bag + lamp underneath in the front? Will the derailleur survive curb riding? Any single of those can be a deal-killer from my perspective.
#66
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Thank you for the opportunity to clarify:
Yes the shifters and brakes that are pictured above are Not the best quality, expensive, Non Industry Standard and are made in Taiwan.
Yes, I would whole heartedly agree the with your implication that the frame is of high quality and made in the UK.
Though if you spend $2000 or even $1000 dollars on a bicycle it will usually have cast drop outs not stamped steel as is usually found on the lowest quality bicycles.
Never the lessThe Brompton is adorned with lower quality, expensive proprietary parts primarily NOT made in the UK.
To stay on topic here is another picture of the MIT V8.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...0048870&type=3
Yes the shifters and brakes that are pictured above are Not the best quality, expensive, Non Industry Standard and are made in Taiwan.
Yes, I would whole heartedly agree the with your implication that the frame is of high quality and made in the UK.
Though if you spend $2000 or even $1000 dollars on a bicycle it will usually have cast drop outs not stamped steel as is usually found on the lowest quality bicycles.
Never the lessThe Brompton is adorned with lower quality, expensive proprietary parts primarily NOT made in the UK.
To stay on topic here is another picture of the MIT V8.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...0048870&type=3
#67
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 449
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
If one is concerned about proprietary parts, which you obviously are zebede, there are many options for a folding bicycle, and at less cost than a MIT.
Do you know if MIT uses non-proprietary parts for the hinge mechanism? It will be interesting to see how MIT’s reputation for support develops over time. Perhaps there will be no issues with the hydro-formed frame and/or it’s connection to the hinge components. Perhaps if there are such issues, MIT will provide outstanding support.
Speaking personally, if choosing between two options that were otherwise equal, I would go with non-proprietary parts over proprietary parts, for the reasons you have given. In this case, however proprietary parts result in a choice between two options that are not equal. We have often heard the line “folds almost as small as a Brompton” and we hear it again regarding the MIT. If the dimensions published by each manufacturer are accurate, the folded Bromton is 55% of the volume of the folded MIT. That means that the MIT will not fit next to my legs between the seats of the bus that I ride two blocks from my house. That also means that I cannot check a MIT as standard luggage when when I hop on a plane. When traveling with my bike I only take a Brompton T-bag, even when travelling internationally for 3 weeks - perhaps MIT will develop a useful luggage carrying system with non-proprietary parts that will work with their cable routing, but at first glance it looks like a challenge. For some owners these issues will not matter and the MIT may be worthy of their consideration.
Do you know if MIT uses non-proprietary parts for the hinge mechanism? It will be interesting to see how MIT’s reputation for support develops over time. Perhaps there will be no issues with the hydro-formed frame and/or it’s connection to the hinge components. Perhaps if there are such issues, MIT will provide outstanding support.
Speaking personally, if choosing between two options that were otherwise equal, I would go with non-proprietary parts over proprietary parts, for the reasons you have given. In this case, however proprietary parts result in a choice between two options that are not equal. We have often heard the line “folds almost as small as a Brompton” and we hear it again regarding the MIT. If the dimensions published by each manufacturer are accurate, the folded Bromton is 55% of the volume of the folded MIT. That means that the MIT will not fit next to my legs between the seats of the bus that I ride two blocks from my house. That also means that I cannot check a MIT as standard luggage when when I hop on a plane. When traveling with my bike I only take a Brompton T-bag, even when travelling internationally for 3 weeks - perhaps MIT will develop a useful luggage carrying system with non-proprietary parts that will work with their cable routing, but at first glance it looks like a challenge. For some owners these issues will not matter and the MIT may be worthy of their consideration.
#68
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: York UK
Posts: 3,027
Bikes: 2X dualdrive Mezzo folder,plus others
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Lots of factors here. Market forces, hype, buying ha bits, established products. It is a tad restrictive to suggest that a manufacture cant undercut brompton.
They are not a budget bike manufactor.
Last edited by bhkyte; 02-08-14 at 10:59 AM.
#69
DancesWithSUVs
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Griffin Cycle Bethesda,MD
Posts: 6,983
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Never had an issue with my Mezzo or Mu SL. I have a client who's been to my clinic several times with a Helios SL;her derailleur hangs just as low as the MIT's and she hasn't had an issue. The Helios is her only bike and she rides it every day.
__________________
C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Dahon Speed Pro TT,Brompton S6L/S2E-X
C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport,Dahon Speed Pro TT,Brompton S6L/S2E-X
#70
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,694
Bikes: Trek 730 (quad), 720 & 830, Bike Friday NWT, Brompton M36R & M6R, Dahon HAT060 & HT060, ...
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 834 Post(s)
Liked 332 Times
in
247 Posts
Along those lines, in my round-the-world observations, the majority of folder owners never folds their bikes and presumably does not even know how to fold. With this it should not actually matter whether the folder folds.
#71
Banned
nope. none .. never seen them .. you brought it up? your idea and risk ..
I own a Brompton ..
like sturmey archer hubs every spare part can be found_ retro-compatible..
thru their dealers ..
dis at your choice..
I own a Brompton ..
like sturmey archer hubs every spare part can be found_ retro-compatible..
thru their dealers ..
dis at your choice..
Last edited by fietsbob; 02-08-14 at 11:54 PM.
#72
Hello
The MIT also comes with an internal gear option, employing the Shimano Nexus 7.
https://www.mitcycle.com/en/products/...d=detail&aid=4
I have pulled apart and rebuilt 50 year old Sturney Archer hubs They are fantastic. I have read that the tolerances and mfg quality has even improved since they were sold and moved to Taiwan. The only drawback for the Brompton model is that it is non industry standard width. You can't put any body else's Hub in a Brompton, can you?
https://www.mitcycle.com/en/products/...d=detail&aid=4
I have pulled apart and rebuilt 50 year old Sturney Archer hubs They are fantastic. I have read that the tolerances and mfg quality has even improved since they were sold and moved to Taiwan. The only drawback for the Brompton model is that it is non industry standard width. You can't put any body else's Hub in a Brompton, can you?
#73
Hello
Don't know if it meets your dimensional criteria.
Your Bike Friday NWT or the Dahon HAT 060 do not.
#74
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 449
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The MIT also comes with an internal gear option, employing the Shimano Nexus 7.
https://www.mitcycle.com/en/products/...d=detail&aid=4
I have pulled apart and rebuilt 50 year old Sturney Archer hubs They are fantastic. I have read that the tolerances and mfg quality has even improved since they were sold and moved to Taiwan. The only drawback for the Brompton model is that it is non industry standard width. You can't put any body else's Hub in a Brompton, can you?
https://www.mitcycle.com/en/products/...d=detail&aid=4
I have pulled apart and rebuilt 50 year old Sturney Archer hubs They are fantastic. I have read that the tolerances and mfg quality has even improved since they were sold and moved to Taiwan. The only drawback for the Brompton model is that it is non industry standard width. You can't put any body else's Hub in a Brompton, can you?
#75
Full Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 440
Bikes: Mezzo I4, Trek 1200, Rudge (Montague) BiFrame, Bickerton
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I think the hub issue is more to do with the user wanting the option to choose the range and number of gears rather than replacing the hub due to wear or mechanical failure. I don't think the hub accounts entirely for the additional width of the MIT. Looking at the photos I suspect quick release pedals would help take at least 1" off the width.
The MIT V8 would be an excellent candidate for a Sham dual drive hub.
The MIT V8 would be an excellent candidate for a Sham dual drive hub.