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Old 01-21-14, 11:54 AM   #1
keyven
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Anyone have any experience with the MIT V8? (aka brompton clone)

How much of a difference is it? I've read it's pretty close, with almost the exact same fold and maybe a 3-6% size difference.

Sure it's not going to measure up blow-by-blow with a brompton, but it's far more tolerable to my wife's budget. I'm probably going down next week to have a look at it, but wondering if anyone else has any comments on it.

Seems a lot of the google results lead me back to the Pinoy forums.
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Old 01-21-14, 12:35 PM   #2
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How much of a difference is it? I've read it's pretty close, with almost the exact same fold and maybe a 3-6% size difference.

Sure it's not going to measure up blow-by-blow with a brompton, but it's far more tolerable to my wife's budget. I'm probably going down next week to have a look at it, but wondering if anyone else has any comments on it.

Seems a lot of the google results lead me back to the Pinoy forums.
Looks much like the now extinct Merc, but with rear derailleur.. I've had a Sturmey 3 speed Merc kicking around for years without issue ... with the Mit, I'd probably try to get ahold of a 'frame only' and install an IGH of one form or another..

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Old 01-21-14, 02:31 PM   #3
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i think it's interesting that this thing is referred to euphemistically as a "clone".

calling it a clone is a soft bit of linguistic misdirection that implies that the MIT V8 is somehow equivalent to the original in all but name. the fact is, the MIT, or London N7, or Scoop One, or Astra Flex V3, or Best Persuader" or whatever other goofy name it's called, exists solely as the result of theft. 5 people who worked for the company who originally produced it actually went to prison as a result of their unscrupulous and illegal business practices.

amazingly, the ad-copy for this junk actually refers to the bike as, "..humble, honest...".

wow. i've read literally hundreds of bike reviews and advertisements, but i don't think i've eve seen the word "honest" being used as an adjective to describe a bicycle. surely, this is either a very clever piece of subliminal advertising or a bit of subconscious self-deception on the part of the author, or more likely, a confused mix of both..

this bicycle oozes bad karma.

a better name for the MIT would be "山寨 1000"

come to think of it, i shouldn't complain. life is pretty great.

i can wake up in the morning and brush my teeth with crust™



get a nice clean shave with my Gilhelley™ razor



have a quick EGG™



call my girlfriend on my NOKLA N97™



meet her at bucksstar™ for coffee



then ride my Bronptom flamingo london astra MIT persuader shanzhai 1000™



to my job as marketing director at Dolce & Banana™



and finally, after a long day of working on my Macbook Aer™



(which, to my good fortune, runs Michaelsoft Binbows XP™)



i'll head off to the pub to enjoy a nice refreshing glass of Johnnie Worker Red Labial™



after a long day at work, there's nothing quite like the taste of a fine crotch whiskey...

Last edited by smallwheeler; 01-22-14 at 02:32 AM.
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Old 01-21-14, 03:33 PM   #4
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The RD dragging the chain thru the dirt , such clever engineering ..

http://www.mitcycle.com/en/products/...=detail&aid=18

it is so low it could double for a kickstand ..

Last edited by fietsbob; 04-08-14 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 01-21-14, 03:44 PM   #5
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Keyven where are you located?

I almost bought one of these while in Manila 3-4 years ago! At that time they were running at around $800-900 (canadian), and it didn't have an external der, but internal one. Keep in mind I have a brompton S6R-x at home. As I remember there wasn't a noticeable difference for the ride (believe it was slightly shorter wheelbase and turned a bit more quickly), mind you the test ride was only 10 minutes.

I ended up not buying it, as it would have cost me a lot to take it back to Canada (sadly had too much baggage already, I had a fully modified downtube 9FS in a samsonite, and couldn't handle another oversized luggage).

It looked like it was a bit easier to modify than the Brompton, but can't really say. I still wish I bought it back then, but then my brommie maybe collecting dust (and that's just a sin!).

I too wanted to get it for my wife, I'd easily entertain the clone depending on how much they want for it.

Last edited by psykoocycle; 01-21-14 at 03:47 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old 01-21-14, 07:23 PM   #6
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Keyven where are you located?

I almost bought one of these while in Manila 3-4 years ago! At that time they were running at around $800-900 (canadian), and it didn't have an external der, but internal one. Keep in mind I have a brompton S6R-x at home. As I remember there wasn't a noticeable difference for the ride (believe it was slightly shorter wheelbase and turned a bit more quickly), mind you the test ride was only 10 minutes.

I ended up not buying it, as it would have cost me a lot to take it back to Canada (sadly had too much baggage already, I had a fully modified downtube 9FS in a samsonite, and couldn't handle another oversized luggage).

It looked like it was a bit easier to modify than the Brompton, but can't really say. I still wish I bought it back then, but then my brommie maybe collecting dust (and that's just a sin!).

I too wanted to get it for my wife, I'd easily entertain the clone depending on how much they want for it.
That's interesting to hear. From the other forums it sounds like it's mostly non-proprietary parts, so it's definitely easier to mod than a brompton.

I am in Singapore. OK i know it's a brompton rip-off and the quality of the materials and construction may not be as good, but so far I've been hearing some decent things about it.

And it's not as if it's being sold by some shady backstreet dealer - the shop is pretty well-established and are well-known for Dahons/Terns and Bike Fridays. I almost bought a Tikit from there myself.
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Old 01-21-14, 07:44 PM   #7
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lol @ smallwheeler. Actually I'm not surprised there exists a knockoff. Just learned of it like a week ago.

TBH the bromptons price is over-priced, given that the parts are not premium either. You're mainly paying for the design aspects which are unequalled, but most reviews I've seen aren't really gushing over the ride quality. For that price you should be getting both in copious amounts.

It's a hole in the market waiting to be filled. And who better than chinese pirates?
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Old 01-21-14, 08:18 PM   #8
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lol @ smallwheeler. Actually I'm not surprised there exists a knockoff. Just learned of it like a week ago.

TBH the bromptons price is over-priced, given that the parts are not premium either. You're mainly paying for the design aspects which are unequalled, but most reviews I've seen aren't really gushing over the ride quality. For that price you should be getting both in copious amounts.

It's a hole in the market waiting to be filled. And who better than chinese pirates?
well, if the brompton is an over-priced bike with non-premium parts and less than great ride quality, what you should do is spend $1000 on a pirated copy of the brompton that's heavier than the original and fitted with z-grade parts and dodgy rear triangle. oh, and that derailleur. i guess they forgot to steal that particular set of auto-cad files...

also, i guess you didnt get my point. the very reason the brompton is so expensive in asia is because it has to be imported. the reason it has to be imported is that the very company that brompton attempted to establish and maintain a licensing agreement with to produce bromptons in asia for the asian market, cheated brompton and didnt honor the terms of their agreement and failed to return brompton's property. that same company or incarnation thereof, produces the crappy bike you are now contemplating spending your hard-earned money on. so, in effect, that piece of junk is the reason brompton's are over-priced in your market. enjoy.
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Old 01-21-14, 11:32 PM   #9
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+1
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Old 01-22-14, 06:34 AM   #10
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Bromptons are over priced in the UK too, and they are made in the UK.
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Old 01-22-14, 09:38 AM   #11
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i think it's interesting that this thing is referred to euphemistically as a "clone".

calling it a clone is a soft bit of linguistic misdirection that implies that the MIT V8 is somehow equivalent to the original in all but name. the fact is, the MIT, or London N7, or Scoop One, or Astra Flex V3, or Best Persuader" or whatever other goofy name it's called, exists solely as the result of theft. 5 people who worked for the company who originally produced it actually went to prison as a result of their unscrupulous and illegal business practices.

amazingly, the ad-copy for this junk actually refers to the bike as, "..humble, honest...".

wow. i've read literally hundreds of bike reviews and advertisements, but i don't think i've eve seen the word "honest" being used as an adjective to describe a bicycle. surely, this is either a very clever piece of subliminal advertising or a bit of subconscious self-deception on the part of the author, or more likely, a confused mix of both..

this bicycle oozes bad karma.

a better name for the MIT would be "山寨 1000"

come to think of it, i shouldn't complain. life is pretty great.

i can wake up in the morning and brush my teeth with crust™



get a nice clean shave with my Gilhelley™ razor



have a quick EGG™



call my girlfriend on my NOKLA N97™



meet her at bucksstar™ for coffee



then ride my Bronptom flamingo london astra MIT persuader shanzhai 1000™



to my job as marketing director at Dolce & Banana™



and finally, after a long day of working on my Macbook Aer™



(which, to my good fortune, runs Michaelsoft Binbows XP™)



i'll head off to the pub to enjoy a nice refreshing glass of Johnnie Worker Red Labial™



after a long day at work, there's nothing quite like the taste of a fine crotch whiskey...

super cool .....
you do have too much time on your hands :-)

best thor
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Old 01-22-14, 09:55 AM   #12
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Forgot to say...

I wouldn't buy the external der. version (I agree with others who see how low that der. is, they could have at least armed it with shortcage instead of the longcage they put on it), look only at an IGH one.
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Old 01-22-14, 12:10 PM   #13
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I don't get the need for that long cage derailleur w/an extra extension on the front??

B'tons are also overpriced in the US and also come with grade B proprietary plastic parts made in the far east, go figure.

It looks like the OP got his info here:

http://www.pinoymtbiker.org/forum/sh...d.php?p=653368


On the manufacturers web site they offer the bike as:

Frame only (cro moly rear triangle and fork, hydroformed aluminium frame)

or complete bike with Shimano Nexus 7 spd IGH.

http://www.mitcycle.com/en/products/...d=detail&aid=4

If price and availability were favorable I would consider these bikes in a heart beat.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PRO-BP01 red.jpg (98.6 KB, 23 views)

Last edited by zebede; 01-23-14 at 11:29 AM. Reason: additional info
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Old 01-24-14, 06:49 AM   #14
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after a long day at work, there's nothing quite like the taste of a fine crotch whiskey...
LOL!! Awesome!
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Old 01-24-14, 04:48 PM   #15
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At what point do Brompton's patents expire?

It seems me, the bike industry has always copied each other. I see a lot of similarities in the early English bikes, I am thinking of Roadsters.
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Old 01-25-14, 06:41 AM   #16
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I know its off topic from the OPs question about experience with a certain bikes but according to Wikipedia article on B'ton, the patents (which were about the fold) have expired.

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publi...26800&KC=&FT=E

The FRAME of the MIT CYCLE PRO-BP01 is NOW made from Hydro formed Aluminium. Making it substantial engineering design change. MIT designs/production can win or fail on there own merit.

There is no legal or ethical reason not to promote the introduction of this competitors product in the market place. Even B'ton buyers/owners would benefit.

When the Dahon Curve came out there was discussion on this forums by the rapid B'ton fan boys to sue for the curved top tube. Didn't happen and probably won't.

It's time for B'ton competitor so that price will come down and quality will go up.


Oh BTW notice in B'tons original patent drawings how they copied the handlebars of the Bickerton, which was popular at the time.

Last edited by zebede; 01-25-14 at 06:44 AM.
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Old 01-25-14, 11:58 AM   #17
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When the Dahon Curve came out there was discussion on this forums by the rapid B'ton fan boys to sue for the curved top tube.
Well, after all, Brompton pioneered the curved top tube frame.
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Old 01-25-14, 12:41 PM   #18
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I know its off topic from the OPs question about experience with a certain bikes but according to Wikipedia article on B'ton, the patents (which were about the fold) have expired.

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publi...26800&KC=&FT=E

The FRAME of the MIT CYCLE PRO-BP01 is NOW made from Hydro formed Aluminium. Making it substantial engineering design change. MIT designs/production can win or fail on there own merit.

There is no legal or ethical reason not to promote the introduction of this competitors product in the market place. Even B'ton buyers/owners would benefit.

When the Dahon Curve came out there was discussion on this forums by the rapid B'ton fan boys to sue for the curved top tube. Didn't happen and probably won't.

It's time for B'ton competitor so that price will come down and quality will go up.


Oh BTW notice in B'tons original patent drawings how they copied the handlebars of the Bickerton, which was popular at the time.

thanks for your pronouncements.

interesting that you mentioned patents but failed to mention copyright or euro design rights.

wiki

Quote:
"A design is defined as "the appearance of the whole or a part of a product resulting from the features of, in particular, the lines, contours, colours, shape, texture and/or materials of the product itself and/or its ornamentation".
Designs may be protected if:
  • they are novel, that is if no design identical or differing only in immaterial details has been made available to the public;
  • they have individual character, that is the "informed user" would find the overall impression different from other designs which are available to the public. Where a design forms part of a more complex product, the novelty and individual character of the design are judged on the part of the design which is visible during normal use.
Designs are not protected insofar as their appearance is wholly determined by their technical function, or by the need to interconnect with other products to perform a technical function (the "must-fit" exception). However modular systems such as Lego or Meccano may be protected."
if MIT wants to "win or fail on there (sp) own merits." then they could just design, prototype, test and manufacture their own bike. but, that would be very expensive and take quite a long time, creativity, and inspiration. better solution would be to simply steal designs from someone else, which is exactly what they did.

you say it's no ethical problem, but i'm pretty sure the kinds of business practices neobike/gracegallant/mit engaged in conform to the definition of "unethical" and also "criminal" as has been demonstrated and proven in court.


you say that brompton owners/buyers would benefit from the counterfeit bike being introduced to the market. i guess by that you mean flooding the market with cheaply produced knock-offs, the only way brompton could compete would be by closing it's UK factory and moving it's production operations overseas thereby lowering the cost to the consumer. and, i suppose if you already own a brompton, perhaps the re-sale value of your bike might increase, having the distinction of being "the last of the UK built bikes"... or something like that.
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Old 01-25-14, 05:09 PM   #19
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Agreed. Back in the '90's,Harleys became so popular that you had to wait to get one,and sometimes pay an extra premium above the MSRP. A couple companies(Illusion,Big Dog) took advantage of this by building custom bikes out of aftermarket Harley parts. Of course,with the availability of bikes that looked just like theirs,but with higher performance engines,suspension,and brakes,Harley quickly went out of business,and a classic American company is now gone from the landscape.
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Old 01-25-14, 05:15 PM   #20
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D'oh! Seems I was wrong. Harley is still in business:
http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US...ages/home.html

Looks like the clones didn't kill them. And Illusion and some of the other clones are also still in business. The fact is Harley stepped up their game with innovations like the Twin Cam and V-Rod engines,and are still much bigger than any of the clones.

Pretty sure in the US you can legally build replacement bicycle frames(it's legal to do this for motorcycle frames). So I can't see how there would be a legal issue if someone were to build a replacement Brommie frame,and then just build customs based on that. I guarantee Harley's lawyers would've put a stop to the clones if there had been a legal reason.
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Old 01-25-14, 05:48 PM   #21
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-Brompton patent documents illustrate Bickerton handlebar design.

-Subsequently Brompton adopted a folding stem design pioneered by Dr. Hon.

-Should I not buy a Brompton because they "STOLE" first Bickerton then Dahons designs?

MIT re-designed the frame and hinge in Hydroformed Aluminium. (lighter, stiffer). The Brompton hinge is no longer protected by a patent. There is good reason for patents to have a life span.

I would encourage anyone interested in Bromptons legal tactics to protect market to read the Wikipedia entry.

The way to get and maintain market share is build a better product at lower cost.

Let the market decide.
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Old 01-25-14, 08:54 PM   #22
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-Brompton patent documents illustrate Bickerton handlebar design.

-Subsequently Brompton adopted a folding stem design pioneered by Dr. Hon.

-Should I not buy a Brompton because they "STOLE" first Bickerton then Dahons designs?

MIT re-designed the frame and hinge in Hydroformed Aluminium. (lighter, stiffer). The Brompton hinge is no longer protected by a patent. There is good reason for patents to have a life span.

I would encourage anyone interested in Bromptons legal tactics to protect market to read the Wikipedia entry.

The way to get and maintain market share is build a better product at lower cost.

Let the market decide.
ok. now we all know you're having a laugh. thanks for clarifying.
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Old 01-26-14, 05:51 AM   #23
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I looked at these bikes in Thailand and they looked very well made..I think that these days anything made in Taiwan has to be pretty good quality..They certainly looked good quality..They are not cheap in Thailand..They sell for about 28000 Thai baht..about 575...That makes them expensive by Thai standards.
I think the V8 bike has the long derailleur to take up the slack in the chain when it is folded..It looks no lower to the ground than a Birdy derailleur..I have a Brompton S6L but I welcome this rival..It produces a Brompton rival with a 7 speed Nexus gear and an 8 speed derailleur..options I wish Brompton would introduce..I find Bromptons insistence with staying with narrow sturmey archer hubs annoying..and the 2 speed derailleur set up something that must have been thought up by British Leyland!!!
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Old 01-27-14, 09:03 AM   #24
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Write a catchy song or trashy novel and you can get copyright protection for over a century. Design something truly useful to humanity, and you currently get patent protection for ~20 years. (International laws vary a bit on this.) I personally think societies are rewarding the wrong behavior, but those are the rules of the game. Don't like it? Write bad novels instead of inventing useful things!

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At what point do Brompton's patents expire?
The basic Brompton U.S. patent expired some seventeen years ago. In light of that, comments in the above linked page about 'unlicensed Brompton copies' are naive at best. The design has long since passed into the public domain. Sorry - I don't make the rules - if I got to, they'd be different!

A fellow who really knew his stuff was the late Dr. Alex Moulton. Before his original patents expired, he came out with the Mk. III models. Before those patents expired, he came out with the AM series. Before those patents expired, he came out with the NS series. By continuing to innovate, he made sure potential competitors could at best only copy his 'old' work.



PS - The Brompton actually owes a lot to Moulton's Mk. III Marathon design, although AFAIK Mr. Ritchie has never acknowledged that.

Last edited by tcs; 01-27-14 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 01-27-14, 09:24 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorUSA View Post
+1
2005 Eurobike award winner Dahon Ciao.
2012 Eurobike award winner Tern Swoop.
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