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  1. #51
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Only own a Brommy (and a BikeFriday)

    NB 2 different 16" wheels ..
    Brompton 349 wheel is different from what I expect is the Ori 306 wheel
    so the tire is a bit fatter on the latter.

    the narrower tire of the 349 type is run at a higher pressure.

  2. #52
    Senior Member downtube's Avatar
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    I prefer the Mezzo...l really liked it the first time I saw it at the Taipei Trade Show 5-6 yrs ago. Bromptons are great, however they are not very price competitive ( IMHO ).

    Om,
    Yan

  3. #53
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
    Considering the Ori folds very fast, has a fixed frame, and uses more standard parts, what makes the Brommie a better choice?
    The Brompton is a better folder,the Ori is a better bike. I had a Brompton and a Mezzo at the same time. I sold the Mezzo because I preferred the Brompton's fold,and I had two other folders. If I had a do-over,I would've sold the Brompton instead. The Mezzo rode better,handled better,had better brakes,just one shifter,and I didn't need tools to pull the wheels.

    C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport/Qualifier,Dahon Speed Pro TT,Brompton S6L

  4. #54
    Senior Member bhkyte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
    The Brompton is a better folder,the Ori is a better bike. I had a Brompton and a Mezzo at the same time. I sold the Mezzo because I preferred the Brompton's fold,and I had two other folders. If I had a do-over,I would've sold the Brompton instead. The Mezzo rode better,handled better,had better brakes,just one shifter,and I didn't need tools to pull the wheels.
    You need a small socket to remove the front wheel unless you dont have the locking bolt for the front wheel qr set in postion. I run like this but I need to adjust it sometimes.

    For me I have always been disappointed with brompton cockpit space, steering, gearing and slowness as a standard bike. It folds well and rides ok but its bearable in reality.
    The mezzo has a weak rear brake and is undergeared as standard. Both of these are easy to sort. Cable ungrade and hub upgrade are easy and relatively cheap. Brompton is another story.

    However , fitting a qr extending stem and improvised bullbars has addressed all the brompton issues other than the gearing on my brompton for me. It also fold as compact Despite the 6 Iinches added forward reach.

    I bought the brommie to sell for profit, but adding the dahon stem extender has made me think again.

    Anyone got a steven perry custom brompton rear triangle they dont need lol.
    Last edited by bhkyte; 03-03-14 at 05:34 AM.
    Dual drive Mezzo (GOLD), Dual Drive Mezzo with bullbars (black), White Brompton thingy with Dahon Androes stem and bull bars. Birdie (old sytle) 7 speed. Downtube NS8. Birdie red.

  5. #55
    Member SixRaven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhkyte View Post
    For me I have always been disappointed with brompton cockpit space, steering, gearing and slowness as a standard bike. It folds well and rides ok but its bearable in reality.
    The mezzo has a weak rear brake and is undergeared as standard. Both of these are easy to sort. Cable ungrade and hub upgrade are easy and relatively cheap. Brompton is another story.
    Well, that made me decide over the M10 (not sure about the Mezzo, but the M10 brakes pretty well)... I rode them both the same day (M10 and Brommie) when I was testing them, and the ORi always felt like the nicer ride, and the gearing system is way nicer as well. I preferred (and still do prefer) how the Brommie folds, though. I've yet to add the roller wheels to the M10 for better commuting, but so far; great bike.

    One question for you all folding bike gurus: is the Kinetics Rohloff Brompton worth the plunge?
    Last edited by SixRaven; 03-03-14 at 09:40 AM. Reason: typo!

  6. #56
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    I like my Rohloff -Bike Friday .. Pocket Llama .. (dont have to fold it in daily use) low top tube .

    but if you feel the need.. the Scottish bike shop guy seems to have sorted it out well ..

    S-A 8 speed a lower cost , as is the Alfine 11.. just doesnt have that German QC.

    my Brompton M3L has a Schlumpf 2 speed Swiss Mountain drive crank.. the range and gear shift
    is the same, functionally, low in high range, to high in low range, is sequenced in the Rohloff Hub
    but done with a heel tap on the shift plate over the crankarm, and a flick of the shift lever..

    the crankset swap was simple.. there is a Brompton specific torque stop arm.

  7. #57
    Member SixRaven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    I like my Rohloff -Bike Friday .. Pocket Llama .. (dont have to fold it in daily use) low top tube .

    but if you feel the need.. the Scottish bike shop guy seems to have sorted it out well ..

    S-A 8 speed a lower cost , as is the Alfine 11.. just doesnt have that German QC.

    my Brompton M3L has a Schlumpf 2 speed Swiss Mountain drive crank.. the range and gear shift
    is the same, functionally, low in high range, to high in low range, is sequenced in the Rohloff Hub
    but done with a heel tap on the shift plate over the crankarm, and a flick of the shift lever..

    the crankset swap was simple.. there is a Brompton specific torque stop arm.
    Well, my question is more focused on: is this modification worth the money they ask? The base price is $1995 pounds! (if you order the brom).

    http://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/fol...n-rohloff-kit/

  8. #58
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Rich enough, lotto paid out,? a couple grand is a tip you leave at the 5 star restaurant/casino.

    is it worth it is not really a crowd sourced decision .. but your choice .

    likely the hub, in the cost, is half that ..

    the newest kit has custom made substitute forks ,

    both wider and made around a disc brake change 135/100 vs 115/74..

    want a disc brake Brompton that folds , albeit a bit wider, there you go
    Last edited by fietsbob; 03-04-14 at 10:20 AM.

  9. #59
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    bhkyte - I have never had the opportunity to ride a mezzo (for some reason they pulled out of the US market after their initial foray) but I have heard you describe some things that you like a about the ride. I know that you have modified both your mezzo and your brompton, but could comment on the standard configurations that people would buy unmodified from the dealer?


    I note that the wheel base of the brompton is 1045 mm vs 980 mm for the mezzo, a little more than 2.5 inches longer. When I see side profile images of the mezzo and brompton it appears that the standard mezzo cockpit is actually shorter than the standard brompton cockpit, but I can find no dimensions to compare. I understand that you have a longer cockpit on your modified mezzo with drop bars.


    Again, not having ridden the mezzo I would image it to be more responsive but would think that on all but the smoothest roads it would be a rougher ride due to the aluminum frame, shorter wheelbase and lack of suspension. I know that elsewhere you have suggested that the brompton is a better option on rougher roads or on paths. Are the roads generally smooth pavement where you usually ride or have you made any modifications to address rough surfaces?


    Thank you.

  10. #60
    Senior Member bhkyte's Avatar
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    Hi re cockpit space.
    My brompton is an older mk 2 which has a slightly shorter frame. I believe the current bike is about 1 inch longer.

    Measured the mid seatpost to mid handlebar clamp on both bike.

    Mezzo 27 inches.
    Brompton 25.

    However the mezzo bars can be rotated to give about 2-4 inches without effecting the fold.

    There is more that can be added by fitting a different stem to a brommie also.
    Part of the difference might be perception. I feel the no forward reach of a brommie is directly responsible for the (imo) less stable steering.

    Personally a brommie as standard does not feel like it fits me unless I use the higher upright bars. Then I hate the handling.

    I have tried to give an impression of the bikes in standard form in previous posts. I don't like either of them that much with standard bars.

    Re modifying to make it smoother on rough roads.

    I have done the opposite on the mezzo as the black bike has a carbon crank bike, lighter saddle and kojack tyres. I use this as a focused road bike
    I have kept the standard tyre width on my gold bike.
    I found an inexpensive telescopic seatpost that I have added a suspension seatpost this can go on either Mezzo bike. This is a good option for off road softening.

    I feel that mezzo is more of a fast commuter than a pleasure bike for stashing in the car. I do longer rides and nearly all my dry functional riding on my black mezzo.
    Last edited by bhkyte; 03-04-14 at 03:49 PM.
    Dual drive Mezzo (GOLD), Dual Drive Mezzo with bullbars (black), White Brompton thingy with Dahon Androes stem and bull bars. Birdie (old sytle) 7 speed. Downtube NS8. Birdie red.

  11. #61
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    FWIW Mk 4 seat post to steering riser , at the button that engages the catch on the fork,

    is about .6M (2')* .. and IMO the Brompton handles adequately , somewhat better, when there is a fair load
    in the front baggage.

    * some measurement difference in what the sample site is I suppose ..

    I use roughly the tube centers.

  12. #62
    Senior Member bhkyte's Avatar
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    Hi re cockpit space.
    My brompton is a mk 2 which has a slightly shorter frame. I believe the current bike is about 1 inch longer.

    Measured the mid seatpost to mid handlebar clamp on both bike.

    Mezzo 27 inches.
    Brompton 25.

    However the mezzo bars can be rotated to give about 2-4 inches without effecting the fold.

    There is more that can be added by fitting a different stem to a brommie also.
    Part of the difference might be perception. I feel the no forward reach of a brommie is directly responsible for the (imo) less stable steering.

    Personally a brommie as standard does not feel like it fits me unless I use the higher upright bars. Then I hate the handling.

    I have tried to give an impression of the bikes in standard form in previous posts. I don't like either of them that much with standard bars.

    Both bikes have flawed gearing systems as standard. Mezzo is undergeared but easy to alter and fully compactable with shimano indexing etc. Brommie has limited choices to get more gears or modern shifting preforance compatability with out customisation.
    Last edited by bhkyte; 03-04-14 at 04:11 PM.
    Dual drive Mezzo (GOLD), Dual Drive Mezzo with bullbars (black), White Brompton thingy with Dahon Androes stem and bull bars. Birdie (old sytle) 7 speed. Downtube NS8. Birdie red.

  13. #63
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    Thanks for the reply bhkyte - I have heard many people, like feitsbob, say that they like having some weight on front of a brompton to improve handling. Personally I can't say because I always have my t-bag on front and find the handling to be just fine. Maybe the forward throw of the mezzo handelbars and shorter wheelbase puts a bit more of the rider's weight over the front tire? As for gearing I like the brompton gearing alot - incredible range and internal geared hub but there is a brief learning curve to get used to the shifting. I ride differently on the brompton with a wider range of cadence than on my high distance and training bikes in which I shift very often to keep my cadence within a narrow band. It is good to hear that the rougher ride of your mezzo works for you on the roads you generally ride. When traveling I have encounter everything from butter smooth asphalt to 30 mile stretches of gravel bike paths on reclaimed railroads.


    What change did you make on your mezzo gearing? What did you start with and what do you have now?

  14. #64
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Personally a brommie as standard does not feel like it fits me
    unless I use the higher upright bars. Then I hate the handling.
    Bhkyte might prefer an other product..


    you can always get a more customizable, built to order Bike Friday .. and get a lot of custom component choices

    and a few sizes of frame lengths .. Di2 electronic shifting all that high end stuff..
    Last edited by fietsbob; 03-05-14 at 02:55 PM.

  15. #65
    Senior Member bhkyte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Bhkyte might prefer an other product..


    you can always get a more customizable, built to order Bike Friday .. and get a lot of custom component choices

    and a few sizes of frame lengths .. Di2 electronic shifting all that high end stuff..
    These are not the droids you want................
    I going to go home and rethink my life . ..........
    Change genre. ......
    I am going to open a pet shop...........
    Dual drive Mezzo (GOLD), Dual Drive Mezzo with bullbars (black), White Brompton thingy with Dahon Androes stem and bull bars. Birdie (old sytle) 7 speed. Downtube NS8. Birdie red.

  16. #66
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    <>


    FWIW, I used the SAP to make more cockpit room on my Mk2, with the Mk4 I didn't need it ..
    Last edited by fietsbob; 03-05-14 at 02:57 PM.

  17. #67
    Senior Member bhkyte's Avatar
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    I am surprised when I do ride a mk 4 how much difference the small frame lengthening improves the bike over my mk2. I don't like the bike enought to get involved in a considerable purchase for this upgrade over my bargin used brommie. Sooner get another birdie or a jetatream or another mountain bike or holliday.
    Dual drive Mezzo (GOLD), Dual Drive Mezzo with bullbars (black), White Brompton thingy with Dahon Androes stem and bull bars. Birdie (old sytle) 7 speed. Downtube NS8. Birdie red.

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