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Old 02-04-14, 10:42 AM   #1
pampera
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At the point of giving up and moving to utility sub forum

Hello, I arrived to my patience - wits - creativity - physical power end and I 'm at the point of giving up: couldn't find a way (safe and stable enough for my preferences) to ride with both my toddler and my almost-toddler on my Dahon Speed TR.

I tried a hand made "it chair" which works wonderful... but not for a short person like me, is made for a taller one.

Also tried with a mini-yepp on the front and a maxi-yepp on the rear and couldn't fit the almost-toddler (very small space between the seat and the handlebar). And the weight was very high for my preferences also.

And I dont't want to use a trailer and also didnt like the extra monster (not sure about the name, it's an xtracycle for 20") for stability and durability.

So, I'm at the point of giving up and moving to the utility bike subforum, at least for the long bike issues, because I'm not sure I will have the will power to sell the folders and will find ocassions to ride them.

If any of you come with any new idea, I'm in my last days of decision making and will listen gratefully.
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Old 02-04-14, 10:59 AM   #2
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Wow, seems kinda crazy and unsafe to try to rig a folder with two toddler seats. Definitely get a utility bike for such a setup.

Otherwise, and although you said you don't want to get one, I'd say your best bet for kid carrying (especially as they grow out of toddler seats) with a folder would be a trailer.
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Old 02-04-14, 01:29 PM   #3
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I agree with mconlonx. Get a trailer or a bigger bike (but, really, a trailer). I wouldn't put two toddler seats on most bikes (let alone a folder).
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Old 02-04-14, 02:56 PM   #4
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Not sure if moving to the utility forum will make any difference, if you don't like the answers here, which is more out of concern for the safety of your young children. It would be foolish for any of us to suggest or condone something that we know will be problematic and potentially tragic.

A good safe way as described by the others is a proper 2 seater trailer. There are many that will fit the TR, and you can concentrate on riding instead of trying to balance two young children on different parts of the bike.
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Old 02-04-14, 03:30 PM   #5
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Not sure if moving to the utility forum will make any difference, if you don't like the answers here, which is more out of concern for the safety of your young children. It would be foolish for any of us to suggest or condone something that we know will be problematic and potentially tragic.

A good safe way as described by the others is a proper 2 seater trailer. There are many that will fit the TR, and you can concentrate on riding instead of trying to balance two young children on different parts of the bike.
Well, moving to utility sub forum because of changing bike mainly, the advices and opinions received here are always useful and witty.
I realized I was going against the nature of the bike, one child ok, two wrong. Maybe the maxi yepp plus the it chair could work, but for a much taller person, not me. The mini-yepp alone didnt work anyway. That's why I'm switching to a long bike designed to carry two child.
But also wanted to share my experience and listen from you.

Please dont be concerned about the children safety, as I'm extremely cautious (that's why I dont risk using a trailer in any car-shared point).
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Old 02-04-14, 03:32 PM   #6
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I agree with mconlonx. Get a trailer or a bigger bike (but, really, a trailer). I wouldn't put two toddler seats on most bikes (let alone a folder).
you'd be surprised, but I feel more confident with a child in a folder (mine, at least) than in another bike. It's stronger and stiffer than it may look.
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Old 02-04-14, 03:40 PM   #7
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Wow, seems kinda crazy and unsafe to try to rig a folder with two toddler seats. Definitely get a utility bike for such a setup.

Otherwise, and although you said you don't want to get one, I'd say your best bet for kid carrying (especially as they grow out of toddler seats) with a folder would be a trailer.
well, the yepp web page shows lots of bikes rigged with two child seats. The problem with being a folder is not being a folder, I felt, was the weight very high. M

Maybe someone designs a "20" long folder" other than the new one dahon wich is a 24" based in my needs for example. Lots of googling and found many people trying to do the same, ones with more manual skills for example, managed to do it. Not me, I need something ready to use and very very lasting.

I believe that a Dahon Speed TR made with a longer wheelbase and a stronger rear triangle could do the work as in a dream.
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Old 02-04-14, 03:59 PM   #8
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I believe that a Dahon Speed TR made with a longer wheelbase
and a stronger rear triangle could do the work as in a dream.
Maybe moving to the Madrid Phone book and hiring something Custom built,
based upon your belief, would be better


Not much but talk here anyhow.. ditto other bike forum sections ,

other than the ancient Roman Forum, where they made it a 'point' 'to bury Caesar not praise him'

...

theres that picture of someone replacing their front wheel with a grocer's shopping trolley ..

a modest machine-shop could work on that .. maybe a minibike version of a christiania bike ..

whole box with 2 wheels on the sides , handlebars on the back, comprises the front end..

near vertical head-angle and the rear the 1 wheel you pedal .. behind it.


Spain needs people buying things from each other I hear .. economy a bit flat.

Did you see the 11th post Here: a 2 up trailabike ..
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...4#post16468054


then again ..

actual shopping trolley and a unicycle , would be easy & cheap.

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Old 02-04-14, 05:46 PM   #9
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you'd be surprised, but I feel more confident with a child in a folder (mine, at least) than in another bike. It's stronger and stiffer than it may look.
I can see doing one fairly well on a folder. The difficulty is doing two.

I have a lot of experience with both trail a bikes and trailers. Trailers are very nice as the bike can fall over (to which I can unfortunately testify to personally) without the trailer tipping over. The weight of two children will be a challenge, particularly if you are not a large person.
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Old 02-05-14, 06:19 AM   #10
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Maybe the toddler and almost toddler aren't ready yet, but for future reference, Bike Friday makes tandem and triple folders.
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Old 02-05-14, 02:02 PM   #11
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if you are planning to change bikes (the initial post was about using the TR) and more a cargo bike - I have seen some very cool setups!
here are a few links with ideas for you.

http://vancouverlongbikes.ca/VLB/Mundo.html

midway down this page you can take a look at the BAKSFIET. I have seen several of these around town.
http://velo-city.org/child-carriers/index.html

good luck in your search! keep us updated!
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Old 02-05-14, 02:31 PM   #12
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Maybe moving to the Madrid Phone book and hiring something Custom built,
based upon your belief, would be better


Not much but talk here anyhow.. ditto other bike forum sections ,

other than the ancient Roman Forum, where they made it a 'point' 'to bury Caesar not praise him'

...

theres that picture of someone replacing their front wheel with a grocer's shopping trolley ..

a modest machine-shop could work on that .. maybe a minibike version of a christiania bike ..

whole box with 2 wheels on the sides , handlebars on the back, comprises the front end..

near vertical head-angle and the rear the 1 wheel you pedal .. behind it.


Spain needs people buying things from each other I hear .. economy a bit flat.

Did you see the 11th post Here: a 2 up trailabike ..
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...4#post16468054


then again ..

actual shopping trolley and a unicycle , would be easy & cheap.
Indeed If I were rich enough I'd ask for a tailor made fleet for me
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Old 02-05-14, 02:34 PM   #13
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I can see doing one fairly well on a folder. The difficulty is doing two.

I have a lot of experience with both trail a bikes and trailers. Trailers are very nice as the bike can fall over (to which I can unfortunately testify to personally) without the trailer tipping over. The weight of two children will be a challenge, particularly if you are not a large person.
Very concerned about this, you are right, maybe heavier than I can push. But I have no chance to ride test any long bike, so I'll have to cross my fingers and wish me luck.
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Old 02-05-14, 02:39 PM   #14
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Maybe the toddler and almost toddler aren't ready yet, but for future reference, Bike Friday makes tandem and triple folders.
I'll keep an eye on them. Nice creations, don't know if suitable for me, but nice indeed.
The toddler loves biking by herself, but asks for bike towing after a while, then asks to ride again by herself once rested, now I'll see what happens if I can tow for a while and let her ride and repeat.
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Old 02-05-14, 02:42 PM   #15
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Since Utility is the topic , now, (non-Folding)

The Bullitt is an aluminum Frame so of the Long John types likely weighs less ..

http://www.larryvsharry.com/english/

Kids would be in front of you , To stop squabbles between them quickly ..

Last edited by fietsbob; 02-05-14 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 02-05-14, 03:17 PM   #16
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Since Utility is the topic , now, (non-Folding)

The Bullitt is an aluminum Frame so of the Long John types likely weighs less ..

http://www.larryvsharry.com/english/

Kids would be in front of you , To stop squabbles between them quickly ..
well, that's why I tought of moving to utility subforum... a folding Bullit? Not convinced anyway at all with Bullit or alike.

Consider my third-world-thinking-frame-of-mind and this bike has to:
1) last a life or many;
2) be able to carry children, groceries, tools along those lifes (children growing, children bikes growing also, moooooore groceries);
3) be able to be repaired with very low tech and pieces need to be standard;
4) be able to be considered as a bike (queer bike, buy bike at last) in a plane travel

All those "developing-country-mad-max" education led me to the Velonom, the german-made Mundo.

Unless, of course, you volunteer to design/construct a long-enough rear for the TR. I'm all ears.
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Old 02-05-14, 03:27 PM   #17
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if you are planning to change bikes (the initial post was about using the TR) and more a cargo bike - I have seen some very cool setups!
here are a few links with ideas for you.

http://vancouverlongbikes.ca/VLB/Mundo.html

midway down this page you can take a look at the BAKSFIET. I have seen several of these around town.
http://velo-city.org/child-carriers/index.html

good luck in your search! keep us updated!
Yes, I started with my sadness for not being able to use my TR as a long cargo bike. Still sad.
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Old 02-05-14, 06:59 PM   #18
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I can see doing one fairly well on a folder. The difficulty is doing two.

I have a lot of experience with both trail a bikes and trailers. Trailers are very nice as the bike can fall over (to which I can unfortunately testify to personally) without the trailer tipping over. The weight of two children will be a challenge, particularly if you are not a large person.

+1.

Having your kids within arm's reach on the bike offers a false sense of security as there's nothing you can do to protect them while operating a bicycle and may even put them at risk as the additional weight may make the bike more difficult to control, especially if you are of petite stature. At least with a trailer your kids don't run the risk of tipping over onto the road if you lose control. That's not to say anything bad WILL happen, after all I survived acting as an airbag for my mom back in the early 60s:


IMHO the best option is a three-wheeled Bakfiets:



BTW, I have experience towing kids and riding a homebuilt long bike (I based my design on the Xtracycle Free Radical design) and the long bike certainly has it's limitations. The handling was awful with 80lbs of groceries. I thought maybe I didn't get the geometry correct but a few years ago we got an Xtracycle at the shop and it didn't handle any better. I now use a trailer.
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Old 02-08-14, 08:36 AM   #19
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+1.

Having your kids within arm's reach on the bike offers a false sense of security as there's nothing you can do to protect them while operating a bicycle and may even put them at risk as the additional weight may make the bike more difficult to control, especially if you are of petite stature. At least with a trailer your kids don't run the risk of tipping over onto the road if you lose control. That's not to say anything bad WILL happen, after all I survived acting as an airbag for my mom back in the early 60s:

The same front seat used when I was a child!
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Old 02-10-14, 11:54 AM   #20
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I have a Chariot Cabriolet -- two seat, side by side. Boys are now 4 and 3. The trailer folds up some -- have been meaning to try it on the train on a weekend!

But: I use a larger Fuji to haul it, my folders have hub gears so the hub-based trailer hitch can't work with them.
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