fusilierdan

Yan,

You don't have to like any of your customers but that is nice. You do have to care for them in as much that you give them the information they need to make a desicion as to if they want to buy your product or not. Also you should have policies in place to protect you and ensure the customer is happy with your product.

I work in retail. Some customers I like, some are friends, some I head the other way when I see them, but if there's a problem I try to find out what I can do to make them happy while not costing me too much. Some times you have to bend a little.

downtube

Thanks!

Om,
Yan

downtube

I will try.

Om,
Yan

cplager

Hi Yan,

Having both dealt with you personally and read and commented on the thread in folding bikes about Downtube, I'll add the following comments:

First, yes, there definitely exist customers you won't be able to please.

That being said, the customer who started the latest thread did have legitimate complaints. I'm not going to state an opinion as to whether or not his requested action was reasonable, but I don't think it isn't unreasonable to expect you to correctly quote dimensions, etc..

I'm not sure the purpose of this thread, but having personally waited months to figure out that you couldn't get me the right part (after several delayed attempts on your part), I do think it's worth not only asking the larger, more esoteric questions, but also the daily, concrete ones (e.g., "Am I really providing the level of service that I'm happy with? If not what can I do differently").

Cheers,
Charles

downtube

The dimensions on the site were correct. The OP referred to a page created by a customer that packed an 8H in a suitcase. OP bought a 9FS, he did not dispute our dimensions from the 9FS product page.
I did not get the support I expected on the other thread. I did not think the OP had a point ( using customer generated page from a different bike ). Hence I have to ask what do I need to do? Thus far I am appreciative of the ideas.

I would agree that this thread probably belongs with the other. However I wanted a new start.

Thanks,
Yan

RPK79

My business isn't sales it's service oriented so I just charge PITA fees when customers become pains to deal with. In the end they either go elsewhere or become very lucrative, win-win. All the while I provide friendly service. That wouldn't work for a retail business though...

wphamilton

If I may chime in even though I don't have a folding bike, it's interesting to me because I used to do quite a bit of internet retail. I was supplied by wholesalers and competed against wholesale direct sales, and sometimes it was the same wholesaler.

I never minded the competition because there are differences. The wholesale model regarding moving the product is geared towards business to business transactions, very streamlined with little if any resources devoted to projecting the warm fuzzies. The customer knows what he wants, orders and pays on the wholesaler's terms, returns are limited to specific delineated reasons, no after-sale hand-holding. True retail is a different story and it takes a LOT of resources devoted to the different procedures for the wholesaler or distributor. There have been a few to pull it off, but most don't even try.

The customer complaining needs to realize that he's dealing direct and isn't entitled to the treatment he probably expects from retailers. I think that they can quickly become more trouble than they're worth to the direct source and if so I'd have nothing bad to say about the wholesaler firing the customer.

If someone is attempting an actual retail model on the other hand, and the customers reasonably expect retail transactions, then the above doesn't really apply. The customer still isn't "always right" but is entitled to minimum standards of performance, and service begins where those standards end.

Snydermann

I took some business management classes and they taught us that:

80% of your customers are great and will never be a problem.

18% of your customers will require some effort to keep happy, but are generally worth the extra effort.

2% of your customers are just insane and probably not worth the trouble. If you are not careful, those 2% will take 90% of your energy.

I ran my own business for almost 20 years, I found these numbers to be pretty accurate.

bargainguy

I read the other thread and was not impressed by the response to the customer's issues.

In today's world, where your business is only viable because of the very internet you depend on, either you become very skilled in public relations or you flounder from situation to situation. Your choice.

"What can I do to make this deal right?" should have been the question, not "Why am I being harassed in public?" You felt it wasn't worth your while to make that customer happy. Now it's all just damage control.

cplager

Ahhh... The 8FS versus 9FS was not something that I was aware of (was it mentioned before?). In my mind, at least, I think that changes things significantly.

I agree that as a manufacture/seller, you have to walk a difficult line. You probably shouldn't just start going off on customers, but I do think that it's definitely worth pointing out when they make mistakes (like the one above).

As has been suggested before, there are always going to be unhappy customers, regardless of what you do. Making sure you're happy with the level of customer service you're providing (as well as periodically re-visiting the issue) is probably all you can do.

Still Pedaling

If you want to stay in business, then you treat EVERY customer with equal respect and service no matter how aggravating the customer might get. Remember one very important aspect of continuing on with a successful business is COMMUNICATION. Your communication with the customer, and the customer's communication with the rest of the world. Bad news spreads like a forest fire. That can have the greatest effect in turning away potential customers. I'm not blowing a horn for America, but I have traveled the world in my years, and there isn't any better customer service anywhere that comes close to here in the US. We wrote the book on it. You want to stay in business my friend then you better put on your best smile and your best tone of voice to everyone you come into contact with. You are not selling any products that others out there are not selling that you are competing with. So what do you have to do that is different than those who you are in competition with -- SERVICE, and you better make sure that your service is BETTER than the competition. When a customer comes into your store you great him/her as if he/she is the best person in your store, because he/she IS!!!

downtube

I guess I did not make this clear. I did mention it was a page created by a customer ( not a product page ) it is also very hard to find the page. To clarify the customer created page was based on packing an 8H not 8FS.

I was surprised about the complaint ( it seemed fake ). However I handled the follow up poorly, I should have just let it go after he asked for money.

Understood

Om,
Yan

ThorUSA

yan the fact that you openly ask here is already WAY WAY above the norm, it shows that you do care.


Yes even I have a couple which I couldnt make happy, usually from abroad. They do seemingly not understand that I am NOT Dahon ( or Tern ) but a dealer, who doesnt get stuff for free. That I buy some crazy replacement parts from Dahon ( or Tern ) and I simply cannot give them away for free, and even if I do ( happens quite often ) than I do need to get shipping paid. As much as I like to mail a little plastic piece from the handlepost to somebody in Spain ( for example ) for free, it costs me 23.95 dlr on freight.
Now if that person bought the bike from me... different story of course ... but I digress...

Now you have a customer ... in a foreign country, you never sold anything, you have the spare part ( cause you paid money for it ) and he gets all rilled up about paying freight ...

Yup.. thats the Internet for you, If somebody ever comes up with the ida that it is easier to sell anyhting on the net ...versus brick and mortar... yeah right ...


or the customer .. who buys 2 folding bikes... receives them ... than sends them back ( He expect you to pay the return freight as well ) after 2 weeks ... They dont fit, they are junk they are... whatever, he refutes his payment to the Credit card.... while he has all kinds of cool pictures on his facebook account with the two bikes on a cruise ship vacation .... all over the place ...

Or the customer who returns an Airporter ... AFTER his vk...

Or the person who calims he never got the stuff....


Yes Yan... even I cannot make everybody happy, I try ... and I put in a huge effort for the ones with buysers remorse or or or or...


One thing I do is sometimes, that I answer posts or emails relatively short... First I cant type fast, second I sometimes work on my phone and its a pita to do it .. and peeps think after they wrote a 5 pqage letter describing stuff, that I could do a better job writing at least a 3 page laetter back ... short is sweet ..but sometimes sounds rough to some ...lol

Best Thor

Foldable Two

This one has been pretty well hashed-out, but I will make a couple of general comments as a retired salesman (sold business telephone systems, both large and small for 18 yrs).

1) You are never going to make everyone happy - some folks like being a PITA.
2) Not all 'prospects' are worth doing business with - That's that 2% who will take up 90% of your time thing - unfortunately you normally don't get to make that choice in Internet Sales.
3) Every time I do research on a product with a large number of posted reviews online, there will always be several that give the vendor/product one star and rip them/it up one side and down the other. Others are so glowing they seem as if they were written by the seller. To me, it's like judging a sporting event - you throw out the high and low reviews. What remains are likely the valid ones.
4) In all situations, be nice and never burn any bridges.

ADD:
5) When you sell to a difficult customer, you do need to serve them and try to meet their needs, however lines may need to be drawn when they expect everything (as in non-warranty items) to be done for free or at minimal cost to themselves. If your service is important to them, then the financial survival of your business should be, too.

Lou

fietsbob

This an Ebay deal gone bad, complaint?, or are you starting your own selling site thru there?

BikeLite

I don't see how a customer can create a page on your website. It seems you made the page based on a customers images. The original page said, "Some oversized suitcases ( Airporter ) require no disassembly.....just fold it and fly." This implies to many that any of your bikes will fit. That is what the OP went by and it was not accurate. The bike type used was only mentioned way down the page in the second to last image.

downtube

Everyone wants to do a good job. It's the other stuff that gets in the way.

This is unbelievable...I feel for you!

Om,
Yan

downtube

I did edited the page....I assume that is a good thing. I don't want this to come up again. The page is at https://www.downtube.com/How_To_Pack_...in_a_Suitcase/ . At the top it says. "A big thank you to Scott Holmen ( customer ) for submitting these pictures. Scott's bike is a 2008 model." The page is a combination of pictures Scott submitted ( he wrote all the text in the pictures as well ). Hence I think it is proper to say the page was created by a customer. His bike is a 2008 8H ( VIIIH to be exact ). I do not think it is logical for a buyer of a 2013 9FS to use this page as a reference for their bike. I think the measurements listed on the product page would be a proper reference. Additionally the suitcase was purchased elsewhere.

I believe OP tried to create an issue, he seemed happy with the bike in early emails. I helped it get out of hand by sending a rude response to his rude request.

Should I post the entire email chain?

Om,
Yan

downtube

I had an issue with a customer that posted on this forum. I created this post because I did not get universal support from the forum members.

Thanks,
Yan

fietsbob

perhaps, 'tis rather hard to get universal support / consensus... it may be like herding cats ..

downtube

Actually support was pretty low. Didn't want to state anything negative.....oh well.

Om,
Yan

cplager

Here I disagree. It's not a forum page, but an official page on your website. How are you not responsible for the content?

mconlonx

On one hand, I've been taught that every difficult customer situation is an opportunity to exceed their expectations and win a customer for life who will refer others.

But it's so dang hard. Especially when the customer is actually wrong. And difficult at the same time.

I have watched bosses fire customers. No one feels good, no one wins.

You can be polite and letter of the law or policy. But firm and terse. Brevity is key.

Or you can cater to the demands of the unreasonable. Another boss says this only encourages them, rewards bad behavior.

I've worked retail a long time. I get good customer feedback and have an excellent sales track to back it up. Customers like dealing with me and refer me by name. Still haven't completely figured it out because people are so different and I keep being surprised by how unreasonable and entitled some customers can be.

Always a challenge. Seldom boring.

At least you get good stories out of it.

Word on bad customers can get around, too. And for 98% of customers who merit favorable comment or no memorable anecdote at all, the 2% give us something to talk about when we get together, "Oh, man, and then there was this one time, this one customer said..."

So, chin up. If you're in the right, public outbursts may be seen for what they are -- customers you want, seeing your point and reacting favorably; customers you don't want thinking you unreasonable, and not doing business with you.

One of the bosses above, when queried about why he didn't get into town politics, said that no matter what opinion he held, 50% of the town would think him wrong and hold it against him and his small-town business. Same kind of thing about disputing on the internet...

Good luck!

downtube

Did I say I was not responsible? I think the content was fine. I simply stated it does not seem logical to use a 2008 8H packing instructions page to conclude a 2013 9FS will fit in an Airporter.

Om,
Yan

badrad

I'm not trying to defend that OP, but you have taken some liberties with the details of that thread.

I checked your FS product page on Feb 10 and the dimensions listed on your product page were incorrect (showing the bike dimensions to be smaller than the Dahon Airporter leading the OP to conclude that it would fit without disassembly). The dimensions were corrected on Feb 15.

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-his-customers!