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  1. #1
    Senior Member Winfried's Avatar
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    [Decision Time] 20" vs. 24"; Fixed frame vs. mid-fold

    Hello

    I need to buy a new folder in the coming few days, and have a couple of questions so I'm not disappointed:

    1. Considering I'll only fold it very occasionally during touring (ie. not for commuting), and a Tern 20" (Verge P20; Gear Inches 25" - 95"; 1,000€) is almost as speedy as a Tern 24" (Eclipse X20; Gear Inches 25" - 107"; 2.000€) while being 2kg heavier and a bit more compact (a factor in trains)... what's the point of spending 2x more for the latter? Is a 24" more comfortable?

    2. If you've ridden a Tern and a Birdy, especially for long distance touring, is a Birdy significantly better because of its fixed frame?

    3. Provided a 20" isn't significantly better than a 24", why should I spend an extra 500€ to get a Verge X10 (1,500€) instead of a P20 (1,000€)? I need the extra speeds when touring in mountain areas.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Winfried; 04-11-14 at 07:00 AM.

  2. #2
    The Recumbent Quant cplager's Avatar
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    I'm having some issues parsing your post (speedy?).

    What are the prices of the three?

    For decent roads, I'd probably go 20" (as you have better tire selection). The worse the roads/trails, the more it makes sense to have bigger wheels.

    If you want the gear range, putting a triple crankset can help out a lot here...
    http://Charles.Plager.net
    http://RecumbentQuant.blogspot.com

  3. #3
    Senior Member Winfried's Avatar
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    I edited the post.

    Right, I hadn't thought about tires. 20" are more common.

    Besides the price, I'm concerned about speed and comfort since this is for multi-day touring.

  4. #4
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
    1. Considering I'll only fold it very occasionally during touring (ie. not for commuting), and a Tern 20" (Verge P20; Gear Inches 25" - 95"; 1,000) is almost as speedy as a Tern 24" (Eclipse X20; Gear Inches 25" - 107"; 2.000) while being 2kg heavier and a bit more compact (a factor in trains)... what's the point of spending 2x more for the latter? Is a 24" more comfortable?
    FWIW, I think that the effect of wheel size is pretty tiny for most riding. Tire selection and quality in ERTO 406 is generally much better. Although I noticed that Target and some other big stores are carrying 24" tubes. Although writing this reminds me of an important question ...

    What 24" tire does the Eclipse use? There are (at least) two sizes of 24" tires/tubes/wheels.

    Without looking up the bikes, a 2 kg difference suggests that there are more than just wheel size differences between the two bikes.

    2. If you've ridden a Tern and a Birdy, especially for long distance touring, is a Birdy significantly better because of its fixed frame?
    The biggest effect from riding a Birdy is the full suspension. Overall, if customer support in the US was better, I'd strongly consider a model.

    3. Provided a 20" isn't significantly better than a 24", why should I spend an extra 500 to get a Verge X10 (1,500) instead of a P20 (1,000)? I need the extra speeds when touring in mountain areas.
    FWIW, I don't think that the additional speeds in the rear are as important as the width of your gear range. You might be better off starting with a Speed 8, adding a chainring/derailer, and spending the extra bucks on nice panniers/racks.

  5. #5
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Personally I Know zip about Tern bikes , since none are sold around here..

    406 20" wheels are used on Bike Fridays Travel bikes and people tour on those around the world already .

    Its not a fast fold *, as with my Pocket Llama, the QR opens the rear tringle folds under and along side, stiffly.

    to allow the seat post to also come down for suitcase sized packing
    they have a hinged or removable option.. likewise the steering mast.


    R'off hub (16t) I have a 53t chainring ..


    * their Tikit is that one ..
    Last edited by fietsbob; 04-11-14 at 10:29 AM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member badrad's Avatar
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    When I am biking on mountainous roads, I will opt for my bike with the triple chain ring bike just to give me that extended range. Not that the X10 or X20 wouldn't work, but just having that extended range in gearing can make the ride more manageable on very steep bits.

  7. #7
    lowlife bottom feeder BassNotBass's Avatar
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    Bike Friday... hands down my favorite bike, folding or non-folding. It's comfortable, nimble, yet very tractable.

    If my NWT was stolen or I had to replace it for some reason, I'd get the OSATA ($740 base price) and customize it.
    Bike Friday - Configure your OSATA 8 spd Safe Routes to School & Fleet bike
    I plan on living forever... so far so good.

  8. #8
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    The osata telescope slips the top tube to resize , length.. You'd have to ask if they also put the extra fittings on for FD, and etc .

    they may not , then the range of the 8 speed cassette is all you have.

  9. #9
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    The osata telescope slips the top tube to resize , length.. You'd have to ask if they also put the extra fittings on for FD, and etc .

    they may not , then the range of the 8 speed cassette is all you have.
    or order it with dual drive wheel....

  10. #10
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    ask and see if it's an option, I dont work there , I'm 300 miles away.

  11. #11
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    ask and see if it's an option, I dont work there , I'm 300 miles away.
    oh, i thought you were their marketing director.


  12. #12
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    they gave me a decent price on mine ..


    I Used to live in Eugene , but moved away from the University town's tenant exploitation housing costs.



    the PL has a bunch of unused braze ons disc or V brakes and derailleur cable guides +

    the 2 down the left chain-stay for the Rohloff Hub & OEM1 dropout.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Winfried's Avatar
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    Thanks all.

    Bike Friday isn't distributed here, so it's not a good solution.

    I guess I'll forget the 24" and go for the 20" model with a double chainring, possibly replacing it with a triple chainring if it proves to be lacking for steep bits.

  14. #14
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    they gave me a decent price on mine ..


    I Used to live in Eugene , but moved away from the University town's tenant exploitation housing costs.



    the PL has a bunch of unused braze ons disc or V brakes and derailleur cable guides +

    the 2 down the left chain-stay for the Rohloff Hub & OEM1 dropout.
    a few years ago i tried to give my girlfriend one of these as an engagement ring. i'm still single.


  15. #15
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    A Sturdy woman if she has a 1" ring finger..

  16. #16
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    A Sturdy woman if she has a 1" ring finger..
    her head was kinda flat, but her head covered that. she was a fine girl.

  17. #17
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    My reference from local color .. kind of an inside joke ..

    http://www.shanghaiedinastoria.com/
    Shanghaied in Astoria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  18. #18
    Part-time epistemologist invisiblehand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
    Thanks all.

    Bike Friday isn't distributed here, so it's not a good solution.

    I guess I'll forget the 24" and go for the 20" model with a double chainring, possibly replacing it with a triple chainring if it proves to be lacking for steep bits.
    Good luck!

    Getting low gears is easy with a 20" wheel. The issue is getting high gears.

  19. #19
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
    Thanks all.

    Bike Friday isn't distributed here, so it's not a good solution.

    I guess I'll forget the 24" and go for the 20" model with a double chainring, possibly replacing it with a triple chainring if it proves to be lacking for steep bits.
    surely you can get airnimal or bernds bike in france.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Winfried's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
    surely you can get airnimal or bernds bike in france.
    I checked the Airnimal but it doesn't fold as small.

    As for Bernds, I'd rather use a derailleur.

  21. #21
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winfried View Post
    I checked the Airnimal but it doesn't fold as small.

    As for Bernds, I'd rather use a derailleur.
    seems like they have all of the pertinent gear ranges covered.

    bernds:

    Models of drive train

    8-gear derailleur:
    development 2.45-7.13m (48 tooth to 11-32), chain drive with freewheel

    8-gear hub:
    development 2.41-7.39 m (42 tooth to 15), Shimano Nexus with back-pedal or freewheel (Premium hub); optional belt drive

    3x8-gear Dual Drive:
    development 1.57-8.48m (42 tooth to 11-32) Sram DualDrive, 8-gear combined 3-gear hub

    14-gear hub:
    development 1.68-8.85m (48 tooth to 13), Rohloff SpeedHub; optional belt drive


  22. #22
    Senior Member Winfried's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
    8-gear derailleur:
    development 2.45-7.13m (48 tooth to 11-32), chain drive with freewheel
    Thanks, I missed that part.

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