stefank

Review for Oyama FBI RR3

I wanted to try a folder in the 451 wheel size, and also I wanted to try a sideways-folder rather
than the underneath folding Bike Friday's I am used to. Apparently, 451mm is a really common size
in the far east, and I ordered the Oyama RR3.

The machine is Dahon-like, with a big sideways fold in the middle, and a sideways folding stem.
It weighs about 10kg. Brifters, derailleurs are Shimano 105, crankset was advertised as Shimano 105,
but it arrived with a generic-looking "Ounce" crankset.

The big observation first: this bike is not suitable for anyone over about maybe 165 cm tall. The reason
is there is not enough seat height for leg extension. Like all folders, this bike relies on a very long seatpost,
and this one has only about 420 mm, which isn't much. By the way, the seatpost on this bike is an oddball
30.2 mm, while the seat tube is about 30.5 mm, so the fit is pretty sloppy. This is a particularly bad thing
for a folder, because so much is asked of the seat tube for such a bike. In the interests of stiffness, a large
diameter is useful here, which is no doubt why the Dahons have 35mm. But the problem with the Oyama's
seatpost isn't the diameter, it's the length, there just isn't enough of it. And... one other important detail,
the seat tube of the RR3 is not offset with respect to the bottom bracket, unlike most other folders. This
means the seatpost cannot be retracted by telescoping down past the bottom bracket. So, even if you
had a long enough seatpost, you would not be able to do anything with it after folding, except maybe
extract it altogether and keep it with the bike. 30.9 mm is a common diameter for seatposts of course, but
alas, the RR3's is not that size. Sigh. Oyama knows how to build frames where the seat tube is offset such
that long seatposts can be retracted straight through, but for whatever reason, this was not done on the
RR3.

The other big design challenge with folders is how to connect the handlebars to the front wheel. The RR3,
showing its roots, uses the folding mast trick, so the long steerer tube and handlebar fold down alongside
the bike. Basically, for a bike of this kind, this doesn't work. The reason is, this is sold as a performance
roadbike, and as such it does not use, quite properly, a straight mountain-bike style bar, but instead goes
here for the bullhorn design. The folding mast really requires just a straight bar because if there is any
more to it, the bar just sticks out and there's nowhere to put it. You would really need to disassemble the
stem/handlebar, or at least loosen and rearrange things after a fold to have anything like a compact package.
As far as I can see, this is a fundamental problem with any bike that uses the folding mast design with
any handlebar except a straight one. Bike Fridays just put the long stempiece on a socket which is simply
extracted and stowed with the bike. This is by far the better system for handlebars of the type that road
machines tend to have.

Aside from the problem of stowing the handlebar, the basic sideways fold of the RR3 does not produce a very
compact package. The design folds wheel-to-wheel, axle-to-axle, which is in some sense appealing, but
there is a downside: this is the widest part of the undercarriage, and folding this way does not produce
much density. Fold density is made worse by the magnetic skewers the bike has which are intended to
make the folded bike more convenient. The magnets stick out, and this affects the fold. Remove the front
wheel to try to get a more compact package, and you run into the rear magnet on its extended skewer gizmo
and if you rotate the fork to get around that, you run afoul of the hinged handlebar thing. Argh.

This is sold as a performance bike, and the tires are narrow and have yellow sidewalls and look very sharp.
(I am a big salesman for high-visibility components, as about everyone who's ever been seriously hit is.)
Unfortunately, the after tire on this machine blew up soon after its initial inflation to the specs printed on
the sidewall. The plies in that section of the sidewall were not well attached to the bead and the tire let
go with a bang. The sidewall bears the name CST Dual2. The tires _look_ nice anyway. Personally, I'd
rather go with a slightly wider tire on these 451 rims -- one made by a builder with an established
reputation. By the way, the inner tubes for the front and rear tires were different. One barely had
enough valve stem to clear the rim. The valves are Schraeder, another unusual thing for a bicycle with
upmarket pretenses.

The bike is sold with very intriguing Wellgo detachable road-style cleats, again underscoring where this
bicycle is intended to be sold. The pedals are plain cool, but detachable pedals don't salvage a pretty
unimpressive fold.

I can't recommend this bicycle. The seat tube design is plain lousy. The seatpost the bike comes with is
basically a standard mountain bike type, cheaply available no doubt, but it's just too short.
The folding mast handlebar stem also doesn't work for its intended role. And the generic brand crankset may
be ok, but this is not an economy bike. The really annoying part is, the RR3 is sold as as top of the line;
some of Oyama's lesser bikes at least don't have the offset seattube problem. This bike is not cheap enough
to be an economy folder and it's totally deficient in the upmarket. No sale.

smallwheeler

thanks for sharing this review.

i gather that you bought this online. the first red flag should have been the fact that this bike company makes dahon fakes. when you received the bike and you realized that the crankset was not as advertised, you should have contacted the company and either demanded they ship the correct crankset or provide a refund for the amount to replace it yourself, OR, return the bike and get your money back. this bike is sold at this particular price point because it is spec'd with shimano 105 groupset. this kind of crap shouldn't be tolerated.

oyama FBI RR3:


dahon speed pro tt:

stefank

Indeed about all side-folders today are in some sense Dahon fakes, including Terns. To be clear, the intent was not to buy cheap, but to get what I wanted. None of the Dahons, at any price, is exactly that either. In 451s it's slim pickings unless you will look the the Far East. (The Dahon above is a 406er.) And I apologize to the world for the formatting of the post above; I did preview, to no avail.

smallwheeler

ok. to get what you wanted. understood.

but, it seems like you paid a lot and didn't get what you wanted.

also, did you know that most folding bikes that come stock with 406 wheels will generally have enough clearance to accept 451 wheels?

stefank

I have considered retrofitting, though for example, both of my ancient Bike Friday's would be major projects to convert, though the wheel will (barely) fit. I just figured, after twenty years, I'd try something new, and with luck, sportier. Well, there has to be a certain number of fools operating at any given moment or the universe will stop functioning. I did my duty.

smallwheeler

you're no fool. we all live and learn.

thugpipe

May I ask what this bike set you back? I could only find a price in hong kong dollars and converted to like $1200 us

smallwheeler

don't rub it in..

don68

Downtube uses a 30.4mm seatpost, you could probably source it through them if you are looking for a longer one. On the upside the bike looks great.

badrad

Looking at the HK site, the bike looks quite nice, and spec'd according to attempt a competitor to the Dahon. But replacing the spec'd parts with lower grade bits sounds like a scam.
However, visually speaking, the bike looks very nice. I guess if you can live with the folding limitations, and if the components aren't just falling off (or more tires blowing up), it should be a nice ride for the money.

stefank

Update on the Oyama FBI RR3 saga:

I pointed out the crankset discrepancy to the retailer, who replied with an apology and offered a discount or at my option,
the crankset advertised with the bike. I took the latter, and it was shipped air freight; they did not even demand the other
one back. I think this is very good behavior on the part of Asia Bicycle in Hong Kong where I bought the machine and from
my experience I would recommend them.

And then there is the Oyama RR3.
My struggle continues. I managed to extend the seat tube by telescoping it with a smaller diameter one, slitting the outer tube
and using a ring clamp. That worked pretty well actually.
The main hinge has since developed a problem; the hinge involves a clamp which uses a soft plastic bushing which collapsed
under pressure, allowing the frame to flex at the hinge, fretting and squeaking. It looks like I will have to have a custom
part machined for the hinge clamp. Interestingly, it looks like the clamp cannot be disassembled, it appears the steel innards
are now captive after welding the main frame which complicates fixing the hinge. Sigh.

I have not yet figured out a solution to the other big problem remaining with this bike, namely that the handlebar fold is
atrocious. I may be able to replace the hinge pin with a quick-remove pin which would free the whole handlebar. Or I
may be able to buy a 451 X 74mm minivelo fork and design some sort of bike-friday-like socket arrangement.

I am absolutely unimpressed with this RR3, but it has convinced me there is merit in the concept of an aluminum sideways
folder with 451 wheels. Basic things just surprise me though. Why didn't they come up with a better dismount for the
handlebar? Why does the frame fold to the left instead of to the right where the delicate derailleurs would be better protected?
Why was the seat tube not run down abaft the bottom bracket? Why is it the hinge was so weakly built with no way to
take it apart? It seems like they didn't even try to optimize the fold density. Why not?

Notwithstanding its serious faults, the machine is a fun and zippy ride. I hope Oyama keeps working on it.