Zakarias

Hi everyone,

Im a bike developer can not say for who, because this is not any promotion and its not allowed here.

This bike has 2 folding systems and at the same time very good riding features.

-The fast folding way (for commuting)
~15 sec folding time

-The compact folding (for long distance travel)
~1 min 30 sec folding time

We have now working on the folding time and handling. We would love to have some feedback from you guy sense you are very passionate about bikes.

This is a temporary video of our consept:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOqmkgv2-e4

Thanks in advance!
Ps. there is royalty music in the video I know. The video is only going to be up for max 2 week so its not big deal.
/zak

blakcloud

I think it is pretty cool with some great ideas. I like your compact fold, but think a bag for the wheels would help as they can get pretty dirty etc. There is something to be said in having full sized wheels on a folding bike.

alhedges

It seems pretty cool. Is there a way to use a QR on the rear tire rather than having to use a wrench?

dynaryder

'Unnamed bike'.


There was a previous thread about this bike before. Not much of a folding bike if you have to remove the wheels and carry them separate.

cplager

I disagree.

It folds quite compactly without taking the wheels off. It packs quite nicely with the wheels off

DoubleDiamonDog

Man if you could put a pair of these on it you could check the whole thing in two pieces of standard luggage for an airplane:

A Remarkable Folding Wheel For Bikes And Wheelchairs | Co.Design | business + design

atombikes

I like the slightly long wheelbase look of this bike. The quick fold is slick. I understand the need for larger wheels but this type concept might also work with a 20" wheeled bike.

Cyclosaurus

Looks like some nice engineering.

Why no quick release on the rear wheel?

It seems to me that the 26"+ folder market is pretty narrow, and unless you have something pretty revolutionary, you're not likely to get a lot of traction. If someone's going to buy a folder, it's hard not to drop down to 20" or 16" to gain a huge amount of portability for very little, if any, sacrifice in performance or comfort.

prathmann

I routinely take the wheels off my regular road bike in less than 15 seconds and that lets me put it in a car trunk smaller than what you show in the video, so the 'quick fold' option doesn't strike me as having any advantage over a regular (non-folding) bike with QR wheels.

The longer disassembly/folding looks promising for transit modes that will allow you to carry both the frame and wheels onboard without significant charges. But for airline travel this means that you have two checked bags just for the bike/wheels and may need an additional one for other luggage. At least none would be oversize/weight, but checking two or three regular bags can still add significant cost compared to my 20" folder that fits in one airline-compatible suitcase.

keyven

Terrible generalization. Yours is only one scenario where a folding feature may not be unnecessary.

A good fold makes the bike ready for quick and easy transportation without having to secure multiple parts, usually in a bag. Depending on the situation I can definitely see it as a worthy feature for many.

I remember my friend spending a fair amount of time detaching the front wheel off his Montague Paratrooper, folding the rest, and stuffing it into a canvas bag. Sure there's a tiny bit more versatility than my dedicated MTB, but in almost everything else - price + performance - my bike was superior.

cpg

I like it. Is this a new version of Fubi?
Home :: Fubi.com

prathmann

Which is a general problem with folders that have large wheels, including this one - even when folded they are still a very large, bulky package that you have to carry around. Really not very different from a regular bike with the wheels removed and velcro-strapped to the frame

keyven

Smart designs like the Pacific IF Move/Mode - both 26" and winners of multiple awards - are proof that 'big' folders need not be damnably unwieldy beasts.

I can understand foldable MTBs (like the Paratrooper) needing a certain frame build strength that limits their folding design, but the TC's bike seems to be mainly a commuter/tourer.

I applaud people like the TC making the effort to push the envelope. Andrew Ritchie certainly had his share of naysayers - perhaps more than most - and look where is he now.

browngw 

The disadvantages of the large wheels for carrying and storing do not seem worth it to me. Weight is a huge issue for folders. They always need to carried somewhere and this does not look light. I'll stick to my quality 20"er.

mconlonx

If it was a mini-velo with 20" wheels, I'd be more apt to consider it for a packable bike, but as is, not. And needing to keep track of wheels separate from frame is not tops on my list of things to worry about on my commute.

Neat design, I very much like how the cassette is part of the frame rather than the wheel (although there's issues with proprietary, non standard stuff...), but too many minuses to appeal to me.

Zakarias

Thanks for the feedback everybody! Seems like some people like more to have smal wheel foldable bike, and I understand that. This is not for everyone..
The smal wheel foldable bikes looks in my option not very good and have much worse rideability. but if you only commute short distance then it can be very good with a 20" bike.

This bike is more for people that want to fold it smal and still want good rideability. Like for sailers, people living in big cities.

It also works good as an full size commuter, I been using it on commuter trains and busses without problem here in helsinki. But I guess in really high density cities it can be better with a 20" foldable bike.
@Cyclosaurus We are working on a faster solution for that to. There is a diffrent hub system so it not possible to have the same quick release.

jur

You need to educate yourself about the ride quality of 20" bikes. "Much worse" reveals your ignorance. The fact that this bike has big wheels also says something about the general ignorance of the designers, perhaps. There is unfortunately an inaccurate perception about small wheels' ride quality that brings those big-wheeled folder designs out of the woodwork. And other, also ignorant reviewers fawn over these wonderful full-sized designs. Full-size folders exist, eg the very good IFmode. So pity that this design effort has been directed at big whee
wheels. I will stay with my much worse small wheels thank you. 10 years and I still haven't learned how bad they are.

fietsbob

Fubi/FUBAR? like Jur , go ride a Bike Friday, or A Moulton, before dissing Small wheels ..


By the Way the feedback would be better if you rent a booth at one of the Bike Industry trade shows ..

at Interbike in the US in Las Vegas .. in the fall (soon)

Germany has one too, as does Taipei, and show them, in person to dealers..

atombikes

As already discussed, I think the best application for this folding frame is a minivelo. 20" wheels with a relatively full size, collapsable frame. I do not understand why this bike has non-standard wheel dropouts (front and back), derailleur, and even the handlebar stem?

As I look at it, I think the only standard bicycle part left untouched is the bottom bracket.

Ozonation

Like others have said... you need to go out and try riding QUALITY small wheeled bikes. You would be surprised how well they ride. Any bike, big wheels or small wheels, that is cheap will not ride well.

keyven

Even if you steadfastly dislike small-wheeled bikes, it's important to collect data on the 'competition' and ask yourself if your bike offers anything more useful than a nice fold. From the video it looks like an S40 - a car with a small-average trunk - barely holds your folded bike. I can't imagine most hatchbacks and smaller sedans being able to take it in unless you take it apart.

20" Bike Fridays are particularly renowned for long-distance touring bikes that fold, and people wouldn't be paying thousands for a bike that is anything less than perfectly comfortable over thousands of miles.

Even a quick google would have saved you this embarrassment and blowback.

DoubleDiamonDog

Zakarias - You are getting some direct honest feedback that will hopefully be useful to you.

As Kevyen suggests, looking at the competition is important and I am sure that you have done so. Most of us folder fans became interested in folders because they are compact when folded. Many are pretty serious cyclists and appreciate a quality ride. The ride quality of small wheeled bikes can be very good although most will concede that large wheeled bikes in general may have an edge over a wider range of surfaces. With your large wheels I immediately thought of Montague, which I am sure that you have looked at:

Folding Bikes - Montague Bikes

The Montague and your bike in quick mode fold with similar speed to a similar sized package. Personally I would probably lean toward the Montague because of standardized parts and established reputation unless your bike was significantly cheaper or offered other advantages to me. the obvious advantage that your bike offers is the ability to fold it in compact mode to a much smaller package. This can be of great use to some people and may be why they may prefer your bike. However, once a small compact package is important you are competing with the small wheeled folders again.

I understand that you may feel that you are offering the best of both worlds - the ride of a bigger bike and the ability to further compact to a small package when desired. I think the market for such a bike may not be that great. The vast majority of cyclists who want compact do not want the second package of large wheels. Those who want a big wheels probably are commuters who will fold it and stick in the corner. Your bike will allow the commuter to occasionally take the bike on a trip, which is a good thing, I'm just not sure that it is enough to get many people on board with the proprietary parts. And you would not simply slip the wheels in a bag and check them on an airplane or they would be destroyed, so really you are probably appealing to the train traveler, not flyer, again limiting the pool of buyers.

The min-velo suggestion may be a good one. The quick fold would be a bit smaller than the Montague - maybe enough to fit smaller cars. The wheels would be a smaller size and easier to transport.

The best criticism is honest criticism and you are getting it in this thread. You have done some very innovative things with the bike and it has much going for it. The folding bike market is a tricky one - maybe there is a place for it or maybe there are changes that can make it more appealing.

smallwheeler

interesting thread. it reads like a second year university product design critique.

the scene: a somewhat stuffy and oddly cold lecture hall with floors covered in tan-colored carpeting.

zakarias: sweaty-palmed, defensive, yet arrogant student with crappy powerpoint presentation and linked youtube vidoes that are slow to load.

jur: the grumpy tenured professor who feels he has wasted the better part of his adult life on the tutelage of petulant halfwits. he mumbles from the back of the room while staring into his cup of cold coffee. the students who are "with it" try to take notes on what he says before he finally slips out the back door disgusted. he is, of course, always right in the end.

keyven: the fellow student who delights in the suffering of the classmate who's head is on the chopping block. little does he seem to realize his day will come.

doublediamondog: the earnest and well-intentioned prof in mid-career who still thinks he can save the world. unfortunately, most of the students and all of the faculty zone-out midway through his long-winded entreaties.

dynaryder: the associate professor with something to prove. his remarks are generally dismissive unless you agree with him. wears leather jackets to class. rumor is, he may be having a rendezvous with linda from accounting.

smallwheeler: the dickhead student at the back of the hall who has pissed everyone off at one time or another. some try to ignore him, but his smarmy, pithy, and flippant remarks and obscurist humor eventually get under their skin too. little do the other students and faculty know, he isn't even enrolled...

the chorus: "well done, mate." "nice." "cool project." "i like that."

i miss those days..


anyway, your mountain bike version:



my 5 minute 20" mock-up:



ideation is always a good thing. challenging preconceived notions is another.

also, i think it would behoove the OP and anyone else who may be interested, to read the excellent and prescient book, "The Atypical Cyclist." written by Colin Pillock in the early 70's, it's a classic of the genre.

cpg

Nice work Smallwheeler, it looks cool with 20" wheels.

tds101 

The one with the 20" wheels looks fantastic. Nice job,... And it's perfect for the OP's design.