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  1. #1
    Senior Member blakcloud's Avatar
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    Brompton S bar conversion

    Replaced the S bar with a Tioga R60 that I ordered from Chain Reaction so that I could get higher on my Brompton. Added Shimano brake levers that I had in my parts bin. Still need a gear changer cable, so I will have to order that as the Brompton dealer didn't have any in stock. Took it for a small ride and the it seems comfortable, at least more comfortable than the S bar.



    You can see the difference in height between the M bar and my conversion. It is pretty close.



    The fold. The bar is pretty close to the ground but it just clears.



    Everything needs to be tweaked but so far a success.

  2. #2
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    nothing that weird about the cables and housing .. Brompton uses Jagwire's products . now.

    Id just buy their regular stuff ..

    Brompton has somebody in the factory Precutting the housing length from a big roll .

  3. #3
    Senior Member Ozonation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blakcloud View Post
    Replaced the S bar with a Tioga R60 that I ordered from Chain Reaction so that I could get higher on my Brompton. Added Shimano brake levers that I had in my parts bin. Still need a gear changer cable, so I will have to order that as the Brompton dealer didn't have any in stock. Took it for a small ride and the it seems comfortable, at least more comfortable than the S bar.

    You can see the difference in height between the M bar and my conversion. It is pretty close.

    Looks good! In fact, I daresay that would be superior to the standard M bar set up. I find the default M bar just a tad too narrow, and there's a bit too much flex. I would think your retrofit would offer more stiffness.
    Rivendell Sam Hillborne and Hunqapillar; Brompton M6R Sage Green; Salsa Mukluk 3 FAT Bike; Nerdy Academic; Nikonian; Wing Chun; and a Patridge in a Pear Tree.

  4. #4
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    Hmm I'm fairly certain I heard someone mention the R60s simply could not fit through the Brompton stem.

    BTW it looks great except you haven't considered narrowing the bar? AFAIK the std M-bar is 515mm wide so narrowing the bar by about 15-20mm on each end you could give yourself more clearance while still being wider than a Brompton handlebar. If you push your bike around regularly like me, there's bound to be a fair amount of tipping over and damaging the handlebar, especially given the new height.

    I'm going to do something similar for my wife's new Brompton, and I'm still trying to decide how much to hack off her 700mm wide bar (75mm rise). Hers is an M-type (because the remaining S-type colors suck), so her handlebar will probably end up lowers than yours.

  5. #5
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    S is also a Short peoples fit. H is for Higher ..
    looking at the comparison chart for the 4.. bar clamp height for H&S look similar so swapping the M bar

    for the slightly lower rise one the OP chose, would give more fold to ground clearance for the bar end,
    (as would just sawing 12mm off the left end.)

  6. #6
    Senior Member blakcloud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    nothing that weird about the cables and housing .. Brompton uses Jagwire's products . now.

    Id just buy their regular stuff ..

    Brompton has somebody in the factory Precutting the housing length from a big roll .
    Yes, that is what I did, bought my own housing and cut it to length, much cheaper that way. Though I cannot buy the shifter cable by itself, I have to buy the whole kit from the Brompton dealer. I searched a few bike stores to see if they have the cable but even the old SA cable is not the same. I could just grind down the head of a Shimano or Campy cable and make it fit, which is always an option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozonation View Post
    Looks good! In fact, I daresay that would be superior to the standard M bar set up. I find the default M bar just a tad too narrow, and there's a bit too much flex. I would think your retrofit would offer more stiffness.
    I agree with you in this regard especially for bigger and stronger riders. Almost the same height but the bars are much stiffer, look better, have more real estate for grips and controls. I thought of using the Aber Halo riser but in the end it just doesn't look as nice as what I think I did, plus the bars are cheaper.

    Quote Originally Posted by keyven View Post
    Hmm I'm fairly certain I heard someone mention the R60s simply could not fit through the Brompton stem.

    BTW it looks great except you haven't considered narrowing the bar? AFAIK the std M-bar is 515mm wide so narrowing the bar by about 15-20mm on each end you could give yourself more clearance while still being wider than a Brompton handlebar. If you push your bike around regularly like me, there's bound to be a fair amount of tipping over and damaging the handlebar, especially given the new height.

    I'm going to do something similar for my wife's new Brompton, and I'm still trying to decide how much to hack off her 700mm wide bar (75mm rise). Hers is an M-type (because the remaining S-type colors suck), so her handlebar will probably end up lowers than yours.
    I read that also but I saw photos where the bars were installed. I did use a trick that I read. Take out the stem bolt and reverse it, use a coin as a stopper and tighten the bolt down, the clamp will open up. I couldn't believe how easy these bars went in.

    I could cut down the bars even more than I did but that would mean cutting the grips down since there won't be enough room for the full length grips, brake levers and gear shift lever. I never push the bike so I am not too concerned about it tipping over that way at least. If I find it to be a problem I still have the option of cutting more off.

    Have fun with your wife's bike. You should be able to find a bar that is perfect in height and width.

  7. #7
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    I don't think there's any appreciable flex in the m bars, the flex comes from the ancient stem design where you have a 1 inch tube exiting the steerer at the point of maximum stress. I did a lot of experimentation on this and realized there's very little that can be done to reduce flex except using a configuration that involves lowering the handlebars. Incidently, most riser bars are for downhill use and are heavy and the S stem is around 80g heavier than the M stem, so over all the configuration is heavier.

  8. #8
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    the early Version, 15/16, sleeved , shiny... was different from the current M bar 7/8, Bulged , matte ... though both are 1" in the center

    for the Mk2 bars there is a connecting brace available .. others have made their own, using the extra crossbar to mount more E things ..


    Pootling along at a modest pace puts very little stress on the bars , in my experience ..

    old metal S-A triggers Did have a different end than common Derailleur cables's small barrel ends

    havent torn the newer Plastic, much easier shifting one, down, myself..

    S riser is longer above fork-headset to the bar clamp than the M . as well..
    a bit more steel tube.. length.. IDK if tubewall thickness is different..
    Last edited by fietsbob; 07-28-14 at 08:46 AM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member blakcloud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chagzuki View Post
    I don't think there's any appreciable flex in the m bars, the flex comes from the ancient stem design where you have a 1 inch tube exiting the steerer at the point of maximum stress. I did a lot of experimentation on this and realized there's very little that can be done to reduce flex except using a configuration that involves lowering the handlebars. Incidently, most riser bars are for downhill use and are heavy and the S stem is around 80g heavier than the M stem, so over all the configuration is heavier.
    I beg to differ on this one. As Fietsbob mentions there is a reason someone sells a clamp to stiffen up the M bar. There is no way that the small internal diameter aluminum bar on the Brompton doesn't have flex compared to my Tioga. I do agree there is flex in the stem but that is what you can expect within the confines of the design. As for the weight difference, have you picked up your Brompton lately? They aren't light weight to begin with so 80 grams heavier is nothing. If I was concerned about weight I wouldn't have bought the Brooks saddle, or the fenders, or the 3 speed or the Brompton tires. In fact if I was so concerned with weight, I wouldn't have bought a Brompton in the first place.

  10. #10
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    Your tioga bar is stiffer for sure, but the amount of flex in the handlebar is negligible compared to the bending in the base of the stem that is amplified along the length of the entire stem/handlebar assembly and experienced as flex when pulling on the handlebars. This is exacerbated by the fact that the expander stem system is not designed to eliminate play fully, the tiniest gap between steerer and stem results in play since it's only the lowest portion of the stem that's wedged in place... it's really just not properly designed.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by blakcloud View Post
    If I was concerned about weight I wouldn't have bought the Brooks saddle, or the fenders, or the 3 speed or the Brompton tires. In fact if I was so concerned with weight, I wouldn't have bought a Brompton in the first place.
    Except stock Bromptons has never been about the weight - ever - but the tiny fold. Anyone buying a Brompton mainly for their weight is doing it wrong

    Nonetheless imo the weight of the bike is a huge contributor to the bike's portability. Lighter is (almost) always better. It allows me to carry it with my arms sticking out up several narrow stairs onto the local bus. It allows me to re-position the bike with less effort on a crowded train. Essentially it lets me manipulate the bike single-handedly in awkward positions without looking like I'm wrestling with it (and losing). That's essentially what I encountered with my 20" Dahon Mu Uno - supposedly one of the lightest Dahons around - and which has made me appreciate the Brompton all the more.

    Even so, I'm currently using the Brooks B67 and Ergons GP2s, and wouldn't trade them out for the world.

  12. #12
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyven View Post
    Except stock Bromptons has never been about the weight - ever - but the tiny fold. Anyone buying a Brompton mainly for their weight is doing it wrong

    Nonetheless imo the weight of the bike is a huge contributor to the bike's portability. Lighter is (almost) always better. It allows me to carry it with my arms sticking out up several narrow stairs onto the local bus. It allows me to re-position the bike with less effort on a crowded train. Essentially it lets me manipulate the bike single-handedly in awkward positions without looking like I'm wrestling with it (and losing). That's essentially what I encountered with my 20" Dahon Mu Uno - supposedly one of the lightest Dahons around - and which has made me appreciate the Brompton all the more.

    Even so, I'm currently using the Brooks B67 and Ergons GP2s, and wouldn't trade them out for the world.
    who knows? you may actually develop a muscle (or two). then you won't need that 34T chainring anymore.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
    who knows? you may actually develop a muscle (or two). then you won't need that 34T chainring anymore.
    So I guess you tour with a cast-iron folder? Then you may actually develop a muscle (or three).

  14. #14
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    Looking slick!

    Does anyone know the weights of the Brompton S handlebar and M handlebar themselves?
    Last edited by bromptonben; 08-01-14 at 07:36 PM.

  15. #15
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    Off the top of my head the S bar is around 130g and the M bar around 280g.

  16. #16
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Yea, But ... if the steering post came up to the same height as the M bar, with a straight bar, the steel would weigh More ..

    so the retrofit , where the S bar was too low is a good move..

  17. #17
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    I bought the S type, but I'm going to get 3" rise X Carbon handlebars at 162 grams. It will end up weighing less the the M type and slightly wider, although it will be 1.27cm lower.
    Last edited by bromptonben; 08-02-14 at 08:12 PM.

  19. #19
    Senior Member smallwheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bromptonben View Post
    I bought the S type, but I'm going to get 3" rise X Carbon handlebars at 162 grams. It will end up weighing less the the M type and slightly wider, although it will be 1.27cm lower.
    "X Carbon handle bars are designed for BMX racing only. They meet or exceed ENBMX Category 2 standards and fit standard 22.2 stems. X bars should be installed by a professional bicycle mechanic and inspected for damage after crashing or impacting the ground or other objects."

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    Quote Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
    "X Carbon handle bars are designed for BMX racing only. They meet or exceed ENBMX Category 2 standards and fit standard 22.2 stems. X bars should be installed by a professional bicycle mechanic and inspected for damage after crashing or impacting the ground or other objects."
    Hopefully all goes well since I'll be commuting with the bike.

    If not, I'll try the Triple Taper Aluminum Handlebars. No disclaimer there!

  21. #21
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bromptonben View Post
    I bought the S type, but I'm going to get 3" rise X Carbon handlebars at 162 grams. It will end up weighing less the the M type and slightly wider, although it will be 1.27cm lower.
    I'd do some measuring first to make sure it won't hit the ground when you fold the bars. Also,I'd never use a carbon bar on a single-bolt-pinch style clamp like Brommies use,but if you want to,def make certain there are no sharp edges in the clamp and use a torque wrench.

    C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport/Qualifier,Dahon Speed Pro TT,Brompton S6L

  22. #22
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    & saw a bit off the left end if it hits the ground.

    the 'triple taper' ones look like it's all 7/8" tube (BMX its common)

    so the shim out to 1" will isolate the bar from the clamp..

    M bar comes straight up so the width for the grips + shifter is Better .

    but if Low weight is paramount you wont have any gears but 1.
    so just brake levers.
    Last edited by fietsbob; 08-03-14 at 05:27 PM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    S is also a Short peoples fit. H is for Higher ..
    Well, that certainly depends. I'm a pretty petite woman (5 feet) and couldn't be happier with the M bar. I tried the S but felt the reach a little farther out than I'm comfortable with.

  24. #24
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    FWIW, the Brompton SAP (saddle adapter pin) installed facing forwards moves the seat closer yet, towards the handlebars
    than is possible just putting the saddle clip ahead of the seat post, and pushing the seat forwards on it's rails ..

    seems a straight bar in an M riser would be lower yet ,

    I'm not sure how much the bend in the various riser types [M,P,S,H] differs for the reach . less bend would bring it back .. some.
    Last edited by fietsbob; 08-08-14 at 11:56 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    FWIW, the Brompton SAP (saddle adapter pin) installed facing forwards moves the seat closer yet, towards the handlebars
    than is possible just putting the saddle clip ahead of the seat post, and pushing the seat forwards on it's rails ..

    seems a straight bar in an M riser would be lower yet ,

    I'm not sure how much the bend in the various riser types [M,P,S,H] differs for the reach . less bend would bring it back .. some.
    Can't a riser bar be adjusted to fit the height of the rider a little better?

    Obviously the flat S-bar can't do that, but a 40mm or more rise should allow the bars to be moved back so the rider does not have to reach as far.

    I fitted an Octane One 75mm rise handlebar on my wife's M-type stem and the angle could be moved back and forth to account for riding posture. Only thing is the gear shifters had to adjusted a little as well.

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