Azreal911

I don't think that's going to happen anytime at the moment when there is still a 2 month waiting list to even get your hands on a typical Brompton with your specs. doing a low cost one would just overextend their workforce on something they can barely keep up in the first place.

keyven

Enough that Dahon - who don't make their bikes in the UK - can undercut them and still make a nice profit. Unfortunately, I believe for many people, Bromptons are simply out of their price range.

Dahon is likely testing the market, and with their lower manufacturing costs, have far more versatility to play with their pricing as the market dictates.

keyven

Seeing as they are the biggest folding bike manufacturer in the world, they certainly have their options and the resources to pull it off.

If it was me - and I think it's rather obvious - Brompton's fold sits near to, if not at the top. Many number of reviewers reference the Brompton fold like mobile phone reviewers reference the iPhone's sleek lines when comparing competing designs.

When we do find the perfect commuting fold (if we haven't already), must it cost several thousand dollars for decades? Or can it be like the automobile where the best design cues "inspire" an entire industry and their combined efforts push innovation forward at supersonic speeds, while keeping costs low?

keyven

And for all the "our waiting list is a mile long and we can't afford to spend too much time on fixing problems", Brompton seem to find enough time to develop the "Black Edition" and introduce new colors. I could be wrong, but I don't recall any particular improvements to the existing design.

At this point, the Curl and Brompton will co-exist just fine, since Dahon could cater to the weekend warriors and lower-middle-class commuters (preferably at a reduced price point). Better to start high and cut prices, than the opposite.

HGR3inOK

And what do you consider "a nice profit"?

Well, that statement would be true if Bromptons were selling at half their current prices.

Based on my interactions with people at Brompton, Dahon and Tern, these groups are focused on making quality products for bicycle riders rather than for bargain hunters. They all have a long-term view of their companies and their products.

-HANK RYAN-
Norman, Oklahoma USA

dynaryder

Unless they do like Harley and open another plant in a foreign country for the new models. Dahon's building bikes in Eastern Europe,Brompton's just a stone's throw from the continent.

tcs

For my own amusement I did a business case study for Brompton's London, UK location, a.k.a. the world's most expensive place to manufacture something. They could save meaningful cost by moving to Glasgow - which, as it turns out, is not in a foreign country.

However, I wouldn't think Brompton's future is in lower costs but in an improved product.

Has anyone realized that within five years of the Curl hitting the market (and I'll believe that has finally happened when I see it!) and Dahon proving the design is sound and it will sell, there'll be like twenty companies in Taiwan and China copying it? In less than five years the EU's 48% tariff on imported bicycles will expire. Mr. Butler-Adams' plan is...more new colors?

cplager

I'm pretty sure Scotland and England are indeed different countries. Granted, the referendum failed, so they are both part of the UK, but definitely different countries.

tcs

Ha! Nope.

keyven

I'm sure they are - Brompton has been doing fine when their design was firmly protected. Now that a legit competitor has arisen, it will really be interesting to see what it does with the development.

Anddd... Brompton's strategic response is to do absolutely nothing except market more pretty colors, so pardon me if I treat "long-term view" with a bit of skepticism. Of course, I could be wrong, and Brompton could be waiting for 2017 to utterly annihilate Dahon with their secret weapon

Winfried

If Brompton could do something to improve their bikes, it'd be offering disk brakes as an option.

This is a commuter bike, and rim pads don't work as well in the rain.

cplager

Sorry. They're still different countries.

None of this means it's really a reason why Brompton couldn't move to Glasgow...

dynaryder

While I'm all about disc brakes,I think it would be an issue here. Bromptons are all about the fold,and they've pretty much shrink-wrapped the bike to get it as small as possible(their rear spacing is pretty much proprietary). Adding discs would mean widening the spacing out to 100/130,or making special narrow hubs,which would be expensive and def would be proprietary. IOW,a disc Brompton would either be expensive(more so than they are now),or would have to fold down larger.

chagzuki

I've just noticed on the Schwalbe site that Big Apples are available in the 355 size, which I wasn't aware of. It looks as though the Curl won't accept these, but I really hope the design is modified so that it can. That would be a game-changer.

tcs

Yes, and I was told in another thread the current year is 1969.

Shrug. Your credibility, not mine.

badrad

Wait!!! You're both right!
Scotland and England are different countries, although they are not independent. Adding in Wales, and Northern Ireland, these 4 countries comprise the United Kingdom. Scotland has no external recognition, or it's own embassies in other independent countries. Interestingly there was a failed referendum vote for Scotland's independence back in September of this year.

cplager

No. I'm right alone. I never said they were independent. I just said they were different countries. And, yes, I mentioned the failed independence vote as well.

This is really easy to solve. You don't believe me? Go to Glasgow and ask everybody how they like being English. Then have your friends (or next of kin or whatever) report back how that went.

invisiblehand

Yes. Marathon Racers are also available in that size. I've been thinking about building a ERTO 355 wheelset for the tikit for riding sans fenders.

Enginator

I agree with Thor about the over complicated way that Dahon makes product available. I own both a Brommie and a DaHon and many other bkes. the Dahon has the amazing Schwalbe 20" Big Apples. If DaHon were to market a version of the Curve with the 16" Big Apples and perhaps a 7 or 8 speed hub I would be all over it.

That is one opportunity that Brompton has not taken and it is so obvious. The efficient fat tires are wonderful for longer rides, providing superior suspension and lower rolling losses. I am a big guy over 6', and ride quality matters to me.The fold size would be effected only marginally.

invisiblehand

Wasn't there a Curve with an 8-speed hub?

I understand that Bromptons made the past few years can fit Greenspeed Scorchers which are 40 mm wide. Judging from the ride on my tikit with the wider tires -- it is unclear how heavy you are but at ~200 lbs my tires are pumped to 50/55 front/rear -- it should make a difference for you assuming that you can live with the greater number of flats.

Enginator

I misstyped. I meant Curl with Big Apples. If you have ridden Big Apples you would know what I mean. It is the ride quality not other factors. In downhill coasting contests with friends on road bikes the Big Apples sometimes outroll them quite handily all factors considered such as clothing, body size etc. The Big Apple is just a great tire. I have ridden many casings but they are superior.

Slim
--------------------

Wasn't there a Curve with an 8-speed hub?

I understand that Bromptons made the past few years can fit Greenspeed Scorchers which are 40 mm wide. Judging from the ride on my tikit with the wider tires -- it is unclear how heavy you are but at ~200 lbs my tires are pumped to 50/55 front/rear -- it should make a difference for you assuming that you can live with the greater number of flats.[/QUOTE]

chagzuki

I find low pressure tyres tend to get very few punctures as they conform to sharp debris and spread the load.

invisiblehand

Indeed. That's my experience as well with wider tires at low pressures. Given where I usually ride, I hardly ever get flats. Tire construction, naturally, also has an effect. My limited experience with Scorchers is that they are relatively thin and supple tires and the one flat I got with them was from a tiny piece of glass.

I've ridden them and had them on some bikes. I think they're a great all-purpose tire and pretty quick given the extra protection against flats. I highly recommend them. But there are certainly faster and more comfortable tires around. They just tend to flat more often. Just take a look at some high-end BMX tires -- for instance, Schwalbe's own Shredda tire.

redbiro

Is it possible to buy the curl anywhere in Europe at the moment ?

tds101 

I live in the USA, not Europe, so I have no idea.