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  1. #1
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    A new model folding bike

    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Cyclosaurus's Avatar
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    I wouldn't really call this a bike, but a scooter. Definitely a clever design, but I don't see that much difference between this and the little motorized razor scooters that fold up pretty small too. I wonder how those solid rubber wheels handle bumps. Personally I wouldn't want anything I couldn't pedal when the batteries run out.
    Whenever a theory appears to you as the only possible one, take this as a sign that you have neither understood the theory nor the problem which it was intended to solve. -Popper

  3. #3
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    I think it's deplorable. Amazing how people can invent such trash.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Cyclosaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    I think it's deplorable. Amazing how people can invent such trash.
    I rather think it's wonderful that anyone and everyone, no matter how deplorable the design, has the opportunity to bring their product to market. That couldn't be said just a few years ago. I wouldn't buy one of these contraptions, and it might not even reach its kickstarter goal and die a quiet death. But this represents the best of the free market at work.
    Whenever a theory appears to you as the only possible one, take this as a sign that you have neither understood the theory nor the problem which it was intended to solve. -Popper

  5. #5
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    That's a fair point. Since kickstarter can help a good idea along, these guys might learn quickly how dumb their idea is. I wonder if it's possible to contribute a negative amount.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
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  6. #6
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    Why is it called a bike? I think it's an interesting idea as an electric scooter, but there's no pedals.

  7. #7
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    I didn't even notice it's motorized. Did the video mention it? I thought they were just showing downhill coasting, which was one reason I thought it was so dumb. I agree it's not a bike.

    For a long time, I have noticed that garage inventors with bad ideas like to enter the bike field more than others. I guess the cost of entry is appealing.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
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  8. #8
    Senior Member badrad's Avatar
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    No, it didn't appear motorized.
    Also did not appear to have any brakes either. Just a basic seated skooter - with Fred Flintstone brakes.

  9. #9
    tcs
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    The kickstarter video's example of the "world's smallest folding bike" is bigger than an A-Bike, so there's a fail for either deception or lack of due diligence. There are no pedals - the laws are different for this sort of thing in various places (in nearly all the United States that's legally going to be a moped or a motorcycle). As a motorcycle with no lights/horn/gages, it's not going to be street legal in most of the world. The promoters didn't mention this, so there's another fail. White-on-white display of bike to potential investors (which hides details) - there's another fail.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  10. #10
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Rider was not pedaling , it had no pedals , As I saw the site , theirs linked from BSNY.. basically a small copenhagen wheel with the batteries inside the wheel(s?)

  11. #11
    tcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by badrad View Post
    No, it didn't appear motorized.
    The video was way light on details, but their K/S web page shows the motor and battery.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  12. #12
    Senior Member badrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post
    The video was way light on details, but their K/S web page shows the motor and battery.
    Ah yes! Interesting design. The initial video was a bit sketchy, but the K/S page does show some decent looking innovation. Not a bad deal of $400+ for one of the initial runs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclosaurus View Post
    I rather think it's wonderful that anyone and everyone, no matter how deplorable the design, has the opportunity to bring their product to market. That couldn't be said just a few years ago. I wouldn't buy one of these contraptions, and it might not even reach its kickstarter goal and die a quiet death.
    Unlikely since it's already exceeded its kickstarter goal.

    It looks much more reasonable to me for short urban transport than the Segway (and far more affordable), but may run into legal snags in many jurisdictions. Doesn't quite fit into the usual pedestrian/bicycle/motorcycle categories.

  14. #14
    jur
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    It's not dumber than the A-bike. I wouldn't expect much mileage from batteries inside the wheels though. Unfortunately it is yet another device born from man's laziness.
    My folding bike photo essays www.dekter.net/

  15. #15
    Senior Member Cyclosaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
    Unlikely since it's already exceeded its kickstarter goal.

    It looks much more reasonable to me for short urban transport than the Segway (and far more affordable), but may run into legal snags in many jurisdictions. Doesn't quite fit into the usual pedestrian/bicycle/motorcycle categories.
    Looks like they got almost $30K in pledges since yesterday...maybe the BikeSnobNYC post gave them quite a boost.
    Whenever a theory appears to you as the only possible one, take this as a sign that you have neither understood the theory nor the problem which it was intended to solve. -Popper

  16. #16
    Senior Member Still Pedaling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    That's a fair point. Since kickstarter can help a good idea along, these guys might learn quickly how dumb their idea is. I wonder if it's possible to contribute a negative amount.
    I couldn't help but think how man has said that about a number of ideas in the past. I think this thing testifies to the ingenuity of man. Not a bad idea for someone who wants to make a short commute, who perhaps has bad knees, back etc. This could, at least, get them where they want to go as long is it is a short distance. I doubt very much whether this would really sell, but who knows. Us Americans, as stupid as we are sometimes, bought into the pet rock of all things, and went crazy over the Rubik's cube and the hula hoop. We might just be surprised with this.
    "It's best to remain silent and be thought the fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt" -- Mark Twain

  17. #17
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    @Still Pedaling, those are fair points, too. I know that I'm terrible at predicting the success of products. I'm a technologist by trade, and I thought both the iphone and the ipad were bad ideas. Now I own one of each and love them. I also see why they were excellent ideas, of course.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
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  18. #18
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post
    The kickstarter video's example of the "world's smallest folding bike" is bigger than an A-Bike, so there's a fail for either deception or lack of due diligence. There are no pedals - the laws are different for this sort of thing in various places (in nearly all the United States that's legally going to be a moped or a motorcycle). As a motorcycle with no lights/horn/gages, it's not going to be street legal in most of the world. The promoters didn't mention this, so there's another fail. White-on-white display of bike to potential investors (which hides details) - there's another fail.
    It's still not clear to me: is it motorized or not?

    I would be fine with laws that classified motorized vehicles as bicycles if they were below a certain amount of power output. As one of his last moves, Mayor Bloomberg of NYC made electric bicycles illegal. This was a dumb move. I have no interest in owning one, but I think they will fill a wonderful niche in time. Currently, they are being ridden very badly by food delivery people, but that's a people problem, not a vehicle problem. I have no problem sharing bike lanes with them. They are only slightly faster than pedal bikes, and they are nearly silent.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  19. #19
    Senior Member Still Pedaling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    @Still Pedaling, those are fair points, too. I know that I'm terrible at predicting the success of products. I'm a technologist by trade, and I thought both the iphone and the ipad were bad ideas. Now I own one of each and love them. I also see why they were excellent ideas, of course.
    It's funny you should say that. I felt the very same way about the iPhone when it came out. For years I would call them "Smart-a$$-phones". Well, as it turns out, both my wife and I own one. Whoda thought?
    "It's best to remain silent and be thought the fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt" -- Mark Twain

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    It's still not clear to me: is it motorized or not?
    The kickstarter page makes it clear that it is motorized and powered by a pack of 10 Li-ion cells:
    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...?ref=discovery
    Speed is given as 12 mph and a range of about 15 miles.

  21. #21
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Thank you. I should be embarrassed that I didn't bother to find the kickstarter page myself.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
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  22. #22
    tcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
    It looks much more reasonable to me for short urban transport than the Segway (and far more affordable), but may run into legal snags in many jurisdictions. Doesn't quite fit into the usual pedestrian/bicycle/motorcycle categories.
    Legally, in most of the USA this is going to be a motorcycle or moped, and as equipped, illegal for on-road use. As a practical matter, this sort of thing flies under the radar and is ignored until the rider gets in an accident, at which point the lawyer for the other party points out the thing had no legal right to be on the road.


    FWIW, recently there's developed a new category of electric assisted longboards, meant for transportation. Invest if you like.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    It's still not clear to me: is it motorized or not?

    I would be fine with laws that classified motorized vehicles as bicycles if they were below a certain amount of power output. As one of his last moves, Mayor Bloomberg of NYC made electric bicycles illegal. This was a dumb move. I have no interest in owning one, but I think they will fill a wonderful niche in time. Currently, they are being ridden very badly by food delivery people, but that's a people problem, not a vehicle problem. I have no problem sharing bike lanes with them. They are only slightly faster than pedal bikes, and they are nearly silent.
    I have a no-name electric-assist folder I found on Craigslist. Pedaling monster hills with a boost is way more fun than most riders imagine. I still pedal them on regular bikes, too, but I like the different experience an electric brings. Plus it's great for bringing home a ton of groceries I would normally reserve for my car.

  24. #24
    tcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by jur View Post
    It's not dumber than the A-bike.
    You're kinda picking some low hanging fruit there.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

    "Every so often a bird gets up and flies some place it's drawn to. I don't suppose it could tell you why, but it does it anyway." Ian Hibell, 1934-2008

  25. #25
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    They are already at $175K for backers!

    I checked the kickstarter page and there's one thing that's bugging me. They said besides the middle connecting box which is steel they are going to build most of the frame out of carbon fiber?!?! for $500 and under!?!? to do proper carbon fiber they will have to layer up the stress points to stiffen it correctly, which actually adds quite a bit of the cost because it's a labour intensive process! main reason there's different price points for carbon fiber road bikes.

    I noticed 3 of the fellows are engineers and one is a designer. What they really need is a business student there also because at $500 they're going to go broke after the initial run! They can't cheap out on the carbon fiber frame else you'll be hearing alot of accidents with frame snapping! I'm just thinking for the price on such a working contraption it's actually kinda priced LOW. I've seen on craigslist people selling crappy a$$ steel bikes with a motor for $500! and that's just the basic non name bike with a motor.

    to me looking if you are looking at it as a NON cyclist this product if working as intended would be AMAZING! mainly the size and packability. Say it's late you are a good 10 miles from home and don't wanna pay 30-40 bucks for a taxis and bus schedules are horrible, oh wait what did I pack in my bag? my futuristic transportation device BAM! off i go! Also in asian countries like Singapore you can multi modal with this is awesome cause you can easily fold and sneak this into the subways without anyone noticing and no one wants to pedal to work on a 35C+ day with a 80% humidex! Their roads are nice too.

    someone here correct me please i might be totally off base.
    Last edited by Azreal911; 11-17-14 at 10:27 AM.

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