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  1. #1
    Keepin it Wheel RubeRad's Avatar
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    Dahon Folding Cloud: "professional" service or void the warrantee?

    Hey gang,

    I don't usually hang out in this forum, but since I've got some folder-specific questions, I thought you'd be the best to ask.

    My parents just bought a pair of Dahon Folding Cloud ("Mu P8"?) off of Amazon, and they're annoyed that in the box is a warning that the bike must be serviced "professionally" or the warrantee will be void.

    I'm a pretty fair hand at wrenching, have stripped down and rebuilt a number of bikes. I've never done anything on a folder, but looking online, everything seems pretty standard: 1x8 derailleur/cassette drivetrain, V-brakes, etc.

    Anybody know about this "professional service" warrantee requirement? Is there anything critical I need to know about, mechanically or otherwise?

    As a side note, Christmas is coming up -- any recommendations for accessories they might find useful now that they've got folders for the first time?

  2. #2
    7ft of Cet-Bak Nightdiver's Avatar
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    Can't comment on their warranty thing, but just to let you know, the bike is the Dahon Mu P8, and "cloud white" is the paint color. I can say that there are some bits on that bike that aren't found elsewhere, such as the main tube hinge and handlepost. Those can be sensitive to adjustment for proper functioning, but everything is spelled out in the manuals that come with the bikes (I assume this is still the case).

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    It's partly a boilerplate thing to let them off the hook for the results of improper wrenching. Of course if you don't directly damage anything, there's no issue, and even if something arises, there's no evidence of amateur wrenching.

    There's also a legal issue. CPSC rules for bicycles have two standards for packaging and owner and assembly manuals, One for bikes sold assembled and fit to ride (bike shop bikes) and one for bikes sold in a box. Selling in a box requires much more detailed assembly instructions and most bikes intended for sale through bike shops don't comply.

    Many makers ship their bikes in semi-finished condition for bike shop assembly, and conform to the first set of rules. They cannot control what happens afer they ship to a seller, and so include language saying that the bike requires professional assembly.
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  4. #4
    Keepin it Wheel RubeRad's Avatar
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    Ah, thanks for the name/color correction.

    Maybe the warrantee is really talking about the folding-specific parts of the bike, not the generic components?

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    Keepin it Wheel RubeRad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
    Many makers ship their bikes in semi-finished condition for bike shop assembly, and conform to the first set of rules. They cannot control what happens afer they ship to a seller, and so include language saying that the bike requires professional assembly.
    Ah, professional assembly vs professional maintenance/service makes sense. From what I've read online, the only "assembly" really needed is to screw in the pedals, otherwise it is just standard unfolding of the bike.

  6. #6
    Senior Member ThorUSA's Avatar
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    depends on the seller the bike has been professionally checked and assembled and than shipped to you. You have the warranty card , fill it out with the frame number and the seller name on it and mail it in.

    Dahon is pretty good to solve any warranty claims here in the USA. I have never seen that they were after paperwork or made any fuss in general...
    However, warranty is limited to something what they made.... not tires, brakes, shifters etc etc all those parts are usually covered by the manufacturers of those

    In other words if you have a frame break, and didnt lost it from the roofrack on highway 5 going 100 miles an hour ... you will find that Dahon is good to deal with, Usually no cost, except labour and freight ...
    Pretty standard stuff

    thor
    Having fun selling Terns and Dahons for a living. My personal website is also my business website, same as my profile name, therefore no link given to follow forum rules.

  7. #7
    Keepin it Wheel RubeRad's Avatar
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    thx, good to know.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
    ... From what I've read online, the only "assembly" really needed is to screw in the pedals, otherwise it is just standard unfolding of the bike.
    Our Pre-Delivery Inspection for most current Dahons includes the following:

    Check and adjust, if necessary, headset.
    Check and adjust, if necessary, bottom bracket.
    Check and adjust, if necessary, wheel hubs.
    Check and adjust, if necessary, brakes.
    Check and adjust, if necessary, derailleur(s) and/or hub.
    Check and adjust, if necessary, seat post clamp quick release.
    Check and adjust, if necessary, handlebar clamp quick release.
    Check and adjust, if necessary, handlepost quick release.
    Check and adjust, if necessary, handlepost latch.
    Check and adjust, if necessary, main frame latch.
    Check and adjust, if necessary, wheel spokes/trueness.
    Inspect for loose or missing bolts, nuts and washers.
    Install pedal(s), if necessary.
    Install clip system ball, where applicable.
    Adjust clip system or Magnetix™.
    Inflate tires to proper pressure.
    Fold and unfold bike to check for issues.

    I think that about covers it. (I am not a bicycle mechanic, but I am familiar with the procedures for our inspections and tune-ups.) Hope this helps!

    -HANK RYAN-
    Norman, Oklahoma USA
    DISCLOSURE: I have an ownership interest in an independent bike shop that is an authorized dealer for Raleigh, Dahon, Tern & Brompton.

  9. #9
    Keepin it Wheel RubeRad's Avatar
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    Thanks! That's a lot of "if necessary"; I obviously don't have your experience, but I would expect for a new, non-BSO actual bike, that most of those "if necessary" are not necessary. I guess depending on tolerance for imperfection. And of course for a bike shop charging for a professional service, it makes sense that you have an exhaustive checklist.

    Anyways, I am confident about most of those. I assume the latches are self-evident to check and adjust. What's "clip system ball" and "Magnetix"?

    I've never put an adult on 20" tires before. Would a different pressure be appropriate than the pressure I would use for the same weight rider and same width tire at 700C?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
    Thanks! That's a lot of "if necessary"; I obviously don't have your experience, but I would expect for a new, non-BSO actual bike, that most of those "if necessary" are not necessary. I guess depending on tolerance for imperfection. And of course for a bike shop charging for a professional service, it makes sense that you have an exhaustive checklist.

    Anyways, I am confident about most of those. I assume the latches are self-evident to check and adjust. What's "clip system ball" and "Magnetix"?

    I've never put an adult on 20" tires before. Would a different pressure be appropriate than the pressure I would use for the same weight rider and same width tire at 700C?
    I don't know what "clip system ball" is, but Magnetix are the magnets at front and back which hold the frame together when folded. There's some adjustment present to make sure they line up.

    The ThorUSA who answered you is a dealer of Dahons, Terns and Moultons, and his site is a wealth of information, plus all the folding bikes and goodies you can stand. He's not allowed to promote his site in this forum, but I can! Check it out. www.thorusa.com

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
    Anyways, I am confident about most of those. I assume the latches are self-evident to check and adjust. What's "clip system ball" and "Magnetix"?

    I've never put an adult on 20" tires before. Would a different pressure be appropriate than the pressure I would use for the same weight rider and same width tire at 700C?
    Clip ball system is the new replacement for magnetix there's actually a ball on one side and a cup on the other side instead of the magnet system and they just snap together. I've never seen one in person but someone should give us a review if it's better than the old magetix.

    as for tires you should treat them the same pressures as you would on the 700c, no difference really if the tire quality and recommended pressures are the same.

  12. #12
    Keepin it Wheel RubeRad's Avatar
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    Awesome, thanks!

    However, the issue is now moot; my mom couldn't be assuaged about the warranty, so they dropped them off at LBS and are paying $75 each to set the bikes up.

  13. #13
    Keepin it Wheel RubeRad's Avatar
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    dang dang dang, I wish my parents had consulted me before buying so I could ask around here; thorusa lists exactly the same bike as they bought, only $11 more than Dahon-via-Amazon, also free shpping, and probably no sales tax between OK and CA (so in the end cheaper), and I bet Hank hisself would have gone through that entire checklist before mailing it out, and this whole warranty scare could have been avoided. Sorry Hank!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
    ... they dropped them off at LBS and are paying $75 each to set the bikes up.
    IMHO, money well spent.

    -HANK RYAN-
    Norman, Oklahoma USA
    DISCLOSURE: I have an ownership interest in an independent bike shop that is an authorized dealer for Raleigh, Dahon, Tern & Brompton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
    ... Sorry Hank!
    Well, we don't ship items at this time. When a Dahon or Tern customer needs a bike or accessory shipped to them, I refer them to Thor. (Note: There are several Dahon mail-order sources. There is only ONE ThorUSA.) And, FWIW, we collect sales tax on every item we sell unless the purchaser has a tax exemption card from the Oklahoma Tax Commission.

    -HANK RYAN-
    Norman, Oklahoma USA
    DISCLOSURE: I have an ownership interest in an independent bike shop that is an authorized dealer for Raleigh, Dahon, Tern & Brompton.

  16. #16
    Keepin it Wheel RubeRad's Avatar
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    Well thanks for that, but I happen to not be the biggest fan of that particular shop -- in my experience it's more of a "let me sell you a brand new carbon fiber race bike" kind of place than a friendly neighborhood "let's work with the bike you've got, or figure out a bike that would suit you well" kind of place. AND, I totally spaced that a nice little LBS just opened up this month that I could have referred them to instead.

  17. #17
    Keepin it Wheel RubeRad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HGR3inOK View Post
    Well, we don't ship items at this time. When a Dahon or Tern customer needs a bike or accessory shipped to them, I refer them to Thor.
    Oh sorry I got confused about which user was from Thor. Sorry Thor guy!

  18. #18
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HGR3inOK View Post
    IMHO, money well spent.
    Agreed. Lots of posts from people who buy bikes from BD and other online sites and think you just attach the bars and ride away. Tried telling one poster that at his weight he should get his BD's wheels gone over by a shop,but his response was "I spun the wheels and they're fine".

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    Keepin it Wheel RubeRad's Avatar
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    Fair enough, but I'm a good enough wrench to assemble and tune a BD bike, I don't see any reason if I did that for my parents' new folders their warrantees should be void.

  20. #20
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Well,look at it from Dahon's point of view. How do they know how skilled you are? I've had several internet bikes brought to my clinic,and there are def people who need professional assistance. A dealer should be able to get things right,no way to tell with individual people.

    My Harley came with a 'welcome to the family' video. In the Q&A part,every maintenance question was answered with,"see your authorized Harley dealer". You should see what they charge.

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  21. #21
    tcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by HGR3inOK View Post
    IMHO, money well spent.
    If they don't prep the bikes any better than the franchised Dahon dealer for my area prep'ed the Dahon I bought for my wife, it's $150 down the drain.
    "When man first set woman on two wheels with a pair of pedals, did he know, I wonder, that he had rent the veil of the harem in twain? A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Typewriter Girl, 1899.

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcs View Post
    If they don't prep the bikes any better than the franchised Dahon dealer for my area prep'ed the Dahon I bought for my wife, it's $150 down the drain.
    Where are you located?

    -HANK RYAN-
    Norman, Oklahoma USA
    DISCLOSURE: I have an ownership interest in an independent bike shop that is an authorized dealer for Raleigh, Dahon, Tern & Brompton.

  23. #23
    Keepin it Wheel RubeRad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
    Well,look at it from Dahon's point of view. How do they know how skilled you are? I've had several internet bikes brought to my clinic,and there are def people who need professional assistance. A dealer should be able to get things right,no way to tell with individual people.
    Yes, but what is a greasemonkey going to do that justifies voiding the warranty? Center the brakes wrong? Adjust the derailleur wrong? Tighten spokes and make a wheel less true?

    Or how about unfold the bike and latch it improperly, causing something to break under a rider's weight? How is that any different than an owner might do during normal use?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
    Yes, but what is a greasemonkey going to do that justifies voiding the warranty? Center the brakes wrong? Adjust the derailleur wrong? Tighten spokes and make a wheel less true?

    Or how about unfold the bike and latch it improperly, causing something to break under a rider's weight? How is that any different than an owner might do during normal use?
    Frankly, I think you're overthinking this. The only parts Dahon covers are the stuff they make themselves, the frame and handlepost. If these ever fail, I doubt they would reject a claim based on who did final assembly of the bike.

  25. #25
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
    Yes, but what is a greasemonkey going to do that justifies voiding the warranty? Center the brakes wrong? Adjust the derailleur wrong? Tighten spokes and make a wheel less true?
    Who knows? But most manufacturers do this. Also note,I had a recall done on my old Novara-badged Dahon(and another bike). Manufacturers do recall notices through dealers. If a recall comes out on this model,what are the chances Amazon will contact you?

    It really boils down to how much you want a warranty. I've never needed any warranty work on any of my bikes,but there are plenty of folks on this board who have. Most warranties contain an agreement about what voids it;if you want a warranty,you have to meet the conditions of it.

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