Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. #1
    www.getafolder.com wpflem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Santa Fe & Gallup, New Mexico
    My Bikes
    Brompton T6, Trek 3700 Moutain Bike, Dahon Boardwalk 6
    Posts
    400
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    The Piccolo Commute Test

    When the subject of 16 inch wheel bikes for communting arises there are always a number of nay-sayers all claming too rough a ride when compared to the 20 inch wheel folders.

    My concern is that those who want to combine a folder with public transportation will be discouraged with toting the 20 inch models on board. The "too-rough-a-ride" label applied to the 16 inch wheels then becomes a limiting factor.

    Today I went for a 10 mile commute to lunch over paved rural roads. I aired the tires up to 80lbs at the onset of the ride. I hit all the pot holes I could run across. My maximum speed per GPS never exceeded 23 mph. I'm not a light weight at 205lbs 5ft10in. The encounters that I thought might have registered as noticably different when compared to a larger wheel bike were the cattle guard crossings. For those of you who don't live out West, that is a 4ft to 6ft grate consisting of parallel bars or pipes placed over a pit in the road to keep cattle and horses from crossing. They are a bit jarring on any bike.

    CONCLUSION: Not a bad ride. The ride difference it seems to me is more theoretical then real. I would not discourage anyone from the 16 inch wheel for moderate communting distances over average paved roads. Now doing a century on a 16 inch folder may be a completely different story.
    Celebrating Bicycling
    The Past, Present, and Future

    http://www.sfbikes.com or http://www.getafolder.com/

  2. #2
    Presto Lite rider MoeŁ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    11
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think you are quite right on all points.

    My girlfriend has a Dahon Piccolo '04 and it is not bad att all, especially at that price point. It is a bit heavy for its size, but that is not much of an issue when riding or when using it for a train, car or bus commute combination. On the London Underground, she struggled a bit when carrying it up and down all the stairs though. She has joined me for a few day and weekend rides on the English and Swedish countryside and it held up well. No centuries, but up towards 40-50 miles in a day. We've added bar ends, a Carradice Rack Box and a suspension seat post. Schwalbe Big Apple tyres may be an future upgrade when the old one wears out.

    I think most of those who put down 16" folders for longer journeys either have no other experience than their own 20" folder and only speculating, or they are comparing with an very old/inferior 16" model which is not fair. On my "dream wish-list" for upgrades for my "Presto Lite Tourer" would be stiffer seatpost and handlebar, more gears and maybe longer wheel base, but not 20" wheels..

    /MoeŁ

  3. #3
    www.getafolder.com wpflem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Santa Fe & Gallup, New Mexico
    My Bikes
    Brompton T6, Trek 3700 Moutain Bike, Dahon Boardwalk 6
    Posts
    400
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MoeŁ
    I think you are quite right on all points.

    My girlfriend has a Dahon Piccolo '04 and it is not bad att all, especially at that price point. It is a bit heavy for its size, but that is not much of an issue when riding or when using it for a train, car or bus commute combination. On the London Underground, she struggled a bit when carrying it up and down all the stairs though. She has joined me for a few day and weekend rides on the English and Swedish countryside and it held up well. No centuries, but up towards 40-50 miles in a day. We've added bar ends, a Carradice Rack Box and a suspension seat post. Schwalbe Big Apple tyres may be an future upgrade when the old one wears out.

    I think most of those who put down 16" folders for longer journeys either have no other experience than their own 20" folder and only speculating, or they are comparing with an very old/inferior 16" model which is not fair. On my "dream wish-list" for upgrades for my "Presto Lite Tourer" would be stiffer seatpost and handlebar, more gears and maybe longer wheel base, but not 20" wheels..

    /MoeŁ
    Thanks it's very good to hear an experienced viewpoint.
    Celebrating Bicycling
    The Past, Present, and Future

    http://www.sfbikes.com or http://www.getafolder.com/

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,293
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MoeŁ
    I think you are quite right on all points.
    I think most of those who put down 16" folders for longer journeys either have no other experience than their own 20" folder and only speculating, or they are comparing with an very old/inferior 16" model which is not fair. On my "dream wish-list" for upgrades for my "Presto Lite Tourer" would be stiffer seatpost and handlebar, more gears and maybe longer wheel base, but not 20" wheels..

    /MoeŁ
    I have the 2001 Dahon Piccolo and have put thousands of miles on that bike. I don't regret the purchase because it was the bike that got me back into cycling. However, I see the limitations of the 16' inch wheel real and for the most part unnecessary. The Piccolo, Presto and Brompton have only one advantage that a 20' inch wheel folder does not and that is the ability to enter the cabin of a bus. Furthermore, this point is debatable because I've known many individuals who took their 20' inch wheel folders inside buses so I may be wrong.

    The 20 'inch wheel folder is just better in almost every regard. It's provides a stable, comfortable and fast ride without sacrificing gears unlike its 16 inch cousin. I could not recommend a 16' inch wheel folder unless the person wanted to enter the bus on a frequent basis (multimode transport). Since very few people do this, I believe that 99% of all folding bike purchases should be for a 20' inch model. In fact, in all my days, I've never seen anyone bring a 16' inch wheel folder inside a bus.

    These are my observations between my Piccolo(16) and Speed 8 (20')

    Overall Comfort ---------- Speed 8 and Piccolo both need either a Brooks Champion flyer or suspension seat post. The straight up position makes them uncomfortable after long rides but I find the bumps less harsh on the Speed 8.

    Speed ---------- My tires pressure are the same on both bikes but the Speed 8 has less rolling resistence due to the more efficient cassette. The Piccolo with it's Sturmey archer AW-3 or Sram Spectro 3 suffers from friction loses.

    Weight ------- It may surprise many to know that my Piccolo and Speed 8 nearly weight the same! There is no gain in performance here.

    Folding size ---------- Piccolo is smaller here but not by much.

    Again. You purchase a folding bike because you either

    a. Lack space in an small apartment.
    b. Lack space in a boat
    c. Lack space in a private airplane
    d. Need to use multimode transport (bus, train)
    e. Want a travel bike for overseas

    The 20' inch folder will do well in A, B, C, E and half of D. Other than the bus, you would always choose a larger folder because it performs better and there is no need to compromise in gears and comfort.

    I can see someone buying a Piccolo to use a beater bike because no one would want to steal its components.
    Last edited by Dahon.Steve; 04-18-05 at 01:36 PM.

  5. #5
    www.getafolder.com wpflem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Santa Fe & Gallup, New Mexico
    My Bikes
    Brompton T6, Trek 3700 Moutain Bike, Dahon Boardwalk 6
    Posts
    400
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve
    I have the 2001 Dahon Piccolo and have put thousands of miles on that bike. I don't regret the purchase because it was the bike that got me back into cycling. However, I see the limitations of the 16' inch wheel real and for the most part unnecessary...
    I have to generally agree with you. I just don't like to see the ride quality of the Piccolo driven down too harshly, because it is a good option for some people in some situations.

    Also the Piccolo is relatively heavy, but it's 16 inch wheel cousin, the Presto-Lite, bypasses that disadvantage, at significant additional cost.
    Celebrating Bicycling
    The Past, Present, and Future

    http://www.sfbikes.com or http://www.getafolder.com/

  6. #6
    Presto Lite rider MoeŁ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    11
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve
    These are my observations between my Piccolo(16) and Speed 8 (20')
    It would of course be much better to compare a Dahon Piccolo D3 with a Dahon Vitesse D3.

    http://www.world-wheels.co.uk/vitessed3.htm

    The Speed 8 is superior of the Piccolo for many other reasons than only the 4" wheel difference.

    I've carried my Presto Lite in a Double-play bag a lot - On ferries, underground, buses, trains. Transported it with accessories on Airlines in a 29" bag. Had it folded in the back of my tiny Seat Arosa car. I've always wished for the package to be smaller and lighter, never the opposite.

  7. #7
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Liked the decision points a - e but disagree on a couple. I did the travel thing with a 20" Dahon and although it was fine when in use it was very difficult to carry along with a pack and daypack. Not so much the weight but the pure clumsiness when mixed with the other luggage in situations where everything had to be carried.
    Also on a cruising boat size is everything if you have anything less than a 35' or so boat.
    Seriously looking at the Presto Lite (even though I love the way the Brompton folds) as it has an aluminum frame (better for the boat) and it is the lightest and smallest affordable bike that I have found for travel.

  8. #8
    Banned. folder fanatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Anti Social Media-Land
    Posts
    3,078
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    "The 20 'inch wheel folder is just better in almost every regard. It's provides a stable, comfortable and fast ride without sacrificing gears unlike its 16 inch cousin. I could not recommend a 16' inch wheel folder unless the person wanted to enter the bus on a frequent basis (multimode transport). Since very few people do this, I believe that 99% of all folding bike purchases should be for a 20' inch model. In fact, in all my days, I've never seen anyone bring a 16' inch wheel folder inside a bus." -Dahon.Steve

    Um, maybe you have seen a 16" inch wheel folder on a bus. I take my Brompton with me on the cabin of a bus, very crowded trains, etc.-hidden in it's bag. In fact I selected the Brompton over the Piccolo because it's folded size wins hands down. Plus it's suspension system is built right into the frame. The folded size is ideal when you go into crowded establishments-try to manuver a larger folder through tight crowds of unyielding people without poking them with the pedals or frame parts. Then add a problem of being a smaller person and you will begin to see why 16" wheels win for some situations. I also have a Boardwalk for more distant little or no multimode use or taken in a indoor crowded areas. For that, it works well. I no longer have derailleurs for many reasons. I prefer hubs since I am not a high performance rider anymore.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,293
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by folder fanatic
    "The 20 'inch wheel folder is just better in almost every regard. It's provides a stable, comfortable and fast ride without sacrificing gears unlike its 16 inch cousin. I could not recommend a 16' inch wheel folder unless the person wanted to enter the bus on a frequent basis (multimode transport). Since very few people do this, I believe that 99% of all folding bike purchases should be for a 20' inch model. In fact, in all my days, I've never seen anyone bring a 16' inch wheel folder inside a bus." -Dahon.Steve

    Um, maybe you have seen a 16" inch wheel folder on a bus. I take my Brompton with me on the cabin of a bus, very crowded trains, etc.-hidden in it's bag. In fact I selected the Brompton over the Piccolo because it's folded size wins hands down. Plus it's suspension system is built right into the frame. The folded size is ideal when you go into crowded establishments-try to manuver a larger folder through tight crowds of unyielding people without poking them with the pedals or frame parts. Then add a problem of being a smaller person and you will begin to see why 16" wheels win for some situations. I also have a Boardwalk for more distant little or no multimode use or taken in a indoor crowded areas. For that, it works well. I no longer have derailleurs for many reasons. I prefer hubs since I am not a high performance rider anymore.
    I still stand by original statement. I've taken my Dahon Piccolo inside the cabin of buses with no problem. In fact, I've heard many Bike Friday owners do the same with similar results. It's a myth that you cannot take a 20' inch wheel folding bicycle inside the cabin of the bus. Most bus drivers will not make any distinction between a bicycle with either size wheel.

    The bus is the only situation where one would prefer a 16 inch folding bicycle over a 20'inch wheel but this is just my personal fear and may not be the actual case. In reality, it often depends of the driver of the coach who may not like bicycles of any make.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,293
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by terrdil
    Liked the decision points a - e but disagree on a couple. I did the travel thing with a 20" Dahon and although it was fine when in use it was very difficult to carry along with a pack and daypack.
    I did the same and it was a mistake. You do not want to put the bicycle in a bag and carry it for any great distance or worst yet, a pack on your back! Here's what to do and it works fine. You roll the bicycle to the platform and then before boarding, put the bicycle in a bag. The Presto may weigh 18 pounds but it becomes real heavy after carrying it for more than 5 minutes!

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    84
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i bought the piccalo because there were a bunch of them on the NIH comples going back and forth to the subway. I dont use the metro but i thought the bike looked neat and i wanted to try it. I used my increase in my va disability to buyone as well as a new bike friday witrh a bunch left over. I think i get a good workout woith the three speeds aolong the bike trail i usuallu ride it. I am able to oput my friday NWT as well as the picallo in the trunk of my ford focus and they are cool to ride around annapolis.I have got to admit my riding my piccalo from the garage to work in my sheriffs uniform has gotten some looks . hey but thats ok

  12. #12
    Folding bike junkie! Wavshrdr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    754
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This is an interesting discussion for me as I have both 16" and 20" folders. I specifically choose the bike for the purpose at hand but I realize many people don't have that luxury. Hands down the Brompton in the 16" wheel size rides vastly superior to the other 16" wheeled models out there. It crude but semi-effective rear suspension takes the edged off most bumps rather well. However compare it to a DT or my full suspended Dahon and there is NO comparison in ride quality. It definitely doesn't ride as well as my Swift with Big Apples on it (even with them at higher pressures and not for best comfort).

    It is fairly close to a normaly 20" bike running 70psi tires (5bar). One think I definitely notice is that the smaller tires are terrible if I need to ride across grass or anything other than hardpacked dirt or roads. They are about as bad as the Stelvios in 20" size on my SpeedPro.

    Biggest downside to almost all of the 16" bikes is they weigh almost the same as the 20" wheeled versions. Only is the Brompton really a significantly smaller bike than the other 20" to really matter. It will just squeeze into my 28" suitcase without disassembly for overseas travel. With a little work my 20" will fit into the same suitcase AND weighs less than any of my Bromptons.

    I have noticed also on gravel and cobblestone streets the 16" tires are definitely worse than the 20's. Also there are far FEWER tire choices in the 16" size as well. Gearing also becomes a major issue too. Big potholes are more of a concern as well as rail crossings. Rims wear more quickly, braking can be less effective and a whole host of other issues that are more common on 16" models than their 20" counterparts.

    So far the most I've ridden my Brompton was a 50 mile stretch and that was enough for me. Mostly I was hampered by the limited gear range more than anything. My general usage is the Brompton in very congested cities and my "bigger" bikes for city riding where I won't be a lot on buses or metros as well as any time I really want to tour while traveling. My Swift is far better to tour on my Brompton as I have a wider gear range, better seat and bar relationship and more more room for luggage. The ride quality is defnitely better but I think the ride quality of a Brompton would surprise a lot of people in a good way just like their crappy brakes will surprise people in a very negative way.

    By comparison the Dahon 16" models are toys. Only the Presto Lite is really a semi-serious model. It is at least light weight but it might be fragile in the long run. Of course they cost less than the Brompton too. This is one area where Dahon could do much better than they do. While I am FAR from being the world's biggest Brompton fan, they do own this segment of the market.

  13. #13
    Seńor Mambo
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Fremont, CA
    My Bikes
    Bike Friday, Bridgestone MB-6 700c, Ti-frame Xtracycle, RANS, Brompton, Dahon, Downtube IXFS, ex-Birdy & a recumbent pedicab.
    Posts
    1,343
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wavshrdr
    ... I think the ride quality of a Brompton would surprise a lot of people in a good way just like their crappy brakes will surprise people in a very negative way.

    ... While I am FAR from being the world's biggest Brompton fan, they do own this segment of the market.
    This matches my sentiment about the Brompton EXACTLY. Freaky.

    Anyway...

  14. #14
    Folding bike junkie! Wavshrdr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    754
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Believe me, my relationship with my Bromptons has definitely been a love hate relationship. Give me a good 8 or 9 spd internal hub and better brakes combined with some sort of decent front suspension while getting the weight closer to 20#'s or so or at least under 10kg. and I could be VERY HAPPY with my Brompton. As it is now it's like kissing an ex-girlfriend that you still find attractive but don't understand how you could have ever lived with her before.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,293
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wavshrdr
    Biggest downside to almost all of the 16" bikes is they weigh almost the same as the 20" wheeled versions.
    Only the Dahon Presto is lighter than most 20' inch folders. My Dahon Piccolo when folded feels heavier than my Speed 7! It's incredible but true and probably due to the rear rack and suspension seatpost. The Brompton weights about as much as the Piccolo and I consider both heavy bikes.

    I don't understand why this is so but Dahon and Brompton really need to come out with a steel bike with a lighter alloy. Bike Friday has steel bikes that weight 20 lbs so it can be done.

  16. #16
    Banned. folder fanatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Anti Social Media-Land
    Posts
    3,078
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The 16 inch bikes may weight just as much as a 20 inch one. But one of the things I noticed about the Brompton is the more balanced package when it is folded up. It may not seem like much to all of you big strong guys out there. Just try to lug a Brompton on the bus, manuver through crowded restaurants and bars, pick it up a narrow flight of stairs, all without bumping crowd out other people. And add to that being smaller in a tall youthful worshipping society. If you look weak, no one will help you with your folded package-or take advantage of the situation. Or run the risk of getting thrown out. So perhaps the Brompton and other 16 inch wheels are not as good as the bigger ones. But at least I get home safely, the bike does not get left out to be stolen or vandalized, and without much stress. That balances it for me.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    84
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If the piccalo only weighs about 23 to 25 lbs i dont see the big deal about carrying in on the back. a pack frame with a shelf on the bottom would be ideal. I have carried more equipment on my back than 25 lbs. between my duty *** belt and my ballistic vest i carry that much weight on a daily basis and have done so for 35 years . I woudl think the concept would be to get a pack frame that handles the pounds.

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,293
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by igor455
    If the piccalo only weighs about 23 to 25 lbs i dont see the big deal about carrying in on the back. a pack frame with a shelf on the bottom would be ideal. I have carried more equipment on my back than 25 lbs. between my duty *** belt and my ballistic vest i carry that much weight on a daily basis and have done so for 35 years . I woudl think the concept would be to get a pack frame that handles the pounds.
    I have the Dahon bag that enables you to carry the Piccolo on your back. Bad idea.

    The bike has metal components that dig into your back. Trust me.. It hurts when those parts start digging into your soft skin!

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    84
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    schwaBLE or whatever tires

    You can put the big apples onn that bike , cool. I bought the piccalo because i had some spare cash and it was eith er that or another firearm. I have enough pistols so i tried the bike. I have riddne mine around a bit and i like it , i do think i will use my bike friday NWT to do cycle or. in sept with my sister. The 3 speeds give me a good workout which is why i use it. I saw alot of scientists riding them all over the National Institues of Health complex. My VA diability was upped by a lot so had some extramoney so i tried it. So far so good I will look at the big apples though. Where would I get them though?

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    My Bikes
    2005 Downtube VIII FS
    Posts
    42
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by wpflem
    My concern is that those who want to combine a folder with public transportation will be discouraged with toting the 20 inch models on board. The "too-rough-a-ride" label applied to the 16 inch wheels then becomes a limiting factor.

    Today I went for a 10 mile commute to lunch over paved rural roads. I aired the tires up to 80lbs at the onset of the ride. I hit all the pot holes I could run across. My maximum speed per GPS never exceeded 23 mph. I'm not a light weight at 205lbs 5ft10in. The encounters that I thought might have registered as noticably different when compared to a larger wheel bike were the cattle guard crossings. For those of you who don't live out West, that is a 4ft to 6ft grate consisting of parallel bars or pipes placed over a pit in the road to keep cattle and horses from crossing. They are a bit jarring on any bike.

    CONCLUSION: Not a bad ride. The ride difference it seems to me is more theoretical then real. I would not discourage anyone from the 16 inch wheel for moderate communting distances over average paved roads. Now doing a century on a 16 inch folder may be a completely different story.

    wpflem,

    Which tire did you use? Is a 16" more vulnerable to punctures than a 20"?

    Thanks in advance

  21. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    My Bikes
    2005 Downtube VIII FS
    Posts
    42
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wavshrdr
    This is an interesting discussion for me as I have both 16" and 20" folders. I specifically choose the bike for the purpose at hand but I realize many people don't have that luxury. Hands down the Brompton in the 16" wheel size rides vastly superior to the other 16" wheeled models out there. It crude but semi-effective rear suspension takes the edged off most bumps rather well. However compare it to a DT or my full suspended Dahon and there is NO comparison in ride quality. It definitely doesn't ride as well as my Swift with Big Apples on it (even with them at higher pressures and not for best comfort).

    It is fairly close to a normaly 20" bike running 70psi tires (5bar). One think I definitely notice is that the smaller tires are terrible if I need to ride across grass or anything other than hardpacked dirt or roads. They are about as bad as the Stelvios in 20" size on my SpeedPro.

    Biggest downside to almost all of the 16" bikes is they weigh almost the same as the 20" wheeled versions. Only is the Brompton really a significantly smaller bike than the other 20" to really matter. It will just squeeze into my 28" suitcase without disassembly for overseas travel. With a little work my 20" will fit into the same suitcase AND weighs less than any of my Bromptons.

    I have noticed also on gravel and cobblestone streets the 16" tires are definitely worse than the 20's. Also there are far FEWER tire choices in the 16" size as well. Gearing also becomes a major issue too. Big potholes are more of a concern as well as rail crossings. Rims wear more quickly, braking can be less effective and a whole host of other issues that are more common on 16" models than their 20" counterparts.

    So far the most I've ridden my Brompton was a 50 mile stretch and that was enough for me. Mostly I was hampered by the limited gear range more than anything. My general usage is the Brompton in very congested cities and my "bigger" bikes for city riding where I won't be a lot on buses or metros as well as any time I really want to tour while traveling. My Swift is far better to tour on my Brompton as I have a wider gear range, better seat and bar relationship and more more room for luggage. The ride quality is defnitely better but I think the ride quality of a Brompton would surprise a lot of people in a good way just like their crappy brakes will surprise people in a very negative way.

    By comparison the Dahon 16" models are toys. Only the Presto Lite is really a semi-serious model. It is at least light weight but it might be fragile in the long run. Of course they cost less than the Brompton too. This is one area where Dahon could do much better than they do. While I am FAR from being the world's biggest Brompton fan, they do own this segment of the market.
    The original Moultons were 16", and the current AM series and Bridgestone Moulton is also close at 17". AM can build a speedy durable bike, so can somebody else. Maybe the Merc can be modded to offer a halfway decent speed and ruggedness. I was thinking of the 6 speed Merc and beyond?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •