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  1. #1
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    What makes a... person (or bike)?

    Bikes. Are they what they are because of the sum of their parts, or is it a specific part of the bike that is THAT bike.

    For example. If someone said "Brand X bike Y" is a great bike. Are they talking about that particular arrangement of parts, or are they simply talking about the frame? If someone takes that same bike and changes some parts, is it still a great bike?

    I personally think that the frame IS the bike. All of the parts around it are simply accessories and can be swapped without affecting the provenance of the bike. (Drastic changes excluded... no dura ace to tiagra etc.)

    The real reason I'm asking this question in Foo is this. What about for a person? If you were in a hypothetical situation where a friend of yours was in a horrible accident and got cut up into a few pieces, what piece would you save? (Assuming that in this situation you have the ability to save any piece individually and get a fully working human again.)

    Consider the following examples:

    If someone's arm is cut off, the rest of their body is still THEM.

    If all of someone's limbs get cut off, the rest of their body is still THEM.

    What if someone's head gets separated from their body. Is their body THEM or is their head THEM?

    Is robocop still the man he was before?

    So, is the brain of a human equivalent to the frame of a bike?

  2. #2
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    I have GOT to post the link to this thread in Addiction in the 41.

  3. #3
    moving target c0urt's Avatar
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    Oatmeal
    how to tape your bars http://www.flickr.com/photos/89572419@N00/sets/72157629279270681/

  4. #4
    Nobody mconlonx's Avatar
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    kilo tt
    I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.

  5. #5
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Put a bunch of poorly made components on an otherwise good frame, and I think you'll have your bike answer.

    As far as people... uh, we are more than just our arms and legs... Just look at Stephen Hawking for that answer... just about nothing works, but his brain...

  6. #6
    bill nyecycles the sci guy's Avatar
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  7. #7
    NFL Owner monogodo's Avatar
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    Regarding what makes a bike: I initially built up my 7-11 Eddy Merckx with a mix of Campy Record/Croce d'Aune/Chorus. It was a great bike. I loved how it rode, and how it functioned. Years later, I decided to swap all of the Campy over to the Colnago, and try to get the Eddy as close to team spec/full DuraAce as possible. When I rode it, I noticed a difference. It shifted different (not necessarily better or worse than the Record Ergo, just different). The brakes were better (single pivot DA vs Record Delta). But the bike still rode & handled the same.

    So I'd agree, it's the frame that makes the bike. Although the wheels sure do have a part in it, too.

    I have no opinion on what makes a person.
    1983 Colnago Super (Campy Record) | 1989 Eddy Merckx 7-Eleven Team Issue (Dura Ace) | Catamount MFS (1x8) | Top Image Neptune (SS)

  8. #8
    Entropy on Wheels Zedoo's Avatar
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    Making a person usually starts with a mommy and a daddy. There are instructional videos.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zedoo View Post
    Making a person usually starts with a mommy and a daddy. There are instructional videos.

    Hearing how others learned about the birds and the bees would be far more interesting than this thread.

    I pretty much got the DL in 3rd grade. I went to a very liberal, artysy-fartsy school. One of the teachers who taught my class brought in a book and left it on the book rack. One day, during post-lunch recess, I read it. I remember the author describing that the "Big O" was like when you have a sneeze building up and then you finally let out a big one.


    51CfqZn7tvL._SX460_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

  10. #10
    That Huffy Guy Johnny Mullet's Avatar
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    My Huffy bikes are basically Huffy frames with upgraded or different components. Even though my bikes are upgraded, they are still Huffy bicycles to anyone that sees them unless one is a cyclist and spots the non-stock parts. I choose those particular frames because I like the ride and feel of gaspipe steel and never broke a Huffy frame.
    1988 Huffy Techtra Lite--1999 Huffy Santa Fe
    1995 Huffy Thunder Ridge--1983 Huffy BMX

  11. #11
    Senior Member Shimagnolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the sci guy View Post
    Best post of the thread!

  12. #12
    Senior Member andr0id's Avatar
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    I have a lot of bicycles but I haven't purchased a bicycle from a bicycle shop since about 1984.

    That was a Panasonic that I road for about 10 years, repainted, upgraded to Dura Ace and finally retired in the mid '90s. Everything, with the exception of my tandem, I've bought as a frame and built up. That includes a custom Spectrum, a used Spectrum track bike, a custom Waterford and a custom Gunnar. Even my Cervelo P2C was purchased as a frame hanging on the wall of Austin Tri-Cyclists.

    Some of the bikes have been upgraded, the Spectrum went from 9speed Dura Ace to 10 speed Dura Ace.

    The Waterford has gone from 6600 Ultegra, to 6800 Ultegra and now to 9000 Dura Ace. Groups make no noticeable difference in handling or ride. They do affect smoothness of control and braking.

    Wheels have more influence, but I've always run pretty light training wheels such as Mavic Open Pros, Velocity Aeroheads and now Velocity A23s with performance clinchers.

    So, definitely the frame.

  13. #13
    Senior Member canklecat's Avatar
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    Being prepared to track straight and true, to go the right direction. Isn't that what makes a bicycle?

    Sure, that, and a pair of tires.

    But what makes a person a person is continually redefined by ourselves and others. Most of us tend to be trapped into being defined by what we do rather than by who we are.
    Why not Zoidberg?

  14. #14
    Senior Member digger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corrado33 View Post
    Bikes. Are they what they are because of the sum of their parts, or is it a specific part of the bike that is THAT bike.

    For example. If someone said "Brand X bike Y" is a great bike. Are they talking about that particular arrangement of parts, or are they simply talking about the frame? If someone takes that same bike and changes some parts, is it still a great bike?

    I personally think that the frame IS the bike. All of the parts around it are simply accessories and can be swapped without affecting the provenance of the bike. (Drastic changes excluded... no dura ace to tiagra etc.)

    The real reason I'm asking this question in Foo is this. What about for a person? If you were in a hypothetical situation where a friend of yours was in a horrible accident and got cut up into a few pieces, what piece would you save? (Assuming that in this situation you have the ability to save any piece individually and get a fully working human again.)

    Consider the following examples:

    If someone's arm is cut off, the rest of their body is still THEM.

    If all of someone's limbs get cut off, the rest of their body is still THEM.

    What if someone's head gets separated from their body. Is their body THEM or is their head THEM?

    Is robocop still the man he was before?

    So, is the brain of a human equivalent to the frame of a bike?

    http://youtu.be/xos2MnVxe-c

  15. #15
    Senior Member Mr. Hairy Legs's Avatar
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    It's hard to compare humans to bikes. A bike is something used by a human, but a human is not something used by a bike. Secondly, you can cook and eat a human but definitely not a bike.

    When you start the question with "what makes a... " and reuse it for these different purposes, it makes little sense.

    If you decapitate someone, they really aren't human anymore. Just a body and a head. It's much different than just cutting off a limb or getting a sex change.

    If you remove the handlebar from your bike, it is a bike with no handlebar. Still a bike because it can be restored and made to work again. You can't sew a head back on a dead body and expect that to work.

    Leaving your bike locked up outside a public transit station overnight will, however, result in something similar to decapitation. It will be a dented frame with zero chance of recovery, and thus no longer a bike.

    So I guess to answer your question, as long as the "thing" has potential to once again be its original self, or something similar, then it is still a thing.

    I hope that helps.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
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    Steel or aluminum?

  17. #17
    Non omnino gravis DrIsotope's Avatar
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    I reckon it's the frame. Nothing remains of the KHS CX100 I initially purchased except the frame and fork-- everything else has since been replaced out of necessity, or out of pure upgraditis. I still call it a KHS.
    "I drink a whiskey drink, I drink a chocolate drink. And when I urinate, I use the kitchen sink." --Homer J. Simpson

  18. #18
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Its The old Theseus paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

    The Ship of Theseus and the Question of Identity - Science and Technology - Utne Reader..

    when the brand is just a Painted Logo on a frame sold under all sorts of Brand names ,

    and You repaint it .. is it X brand now or Generic? does it Matter?
    Last edited by fietsbob; 02-09-16 at 03:51 PM.

  19. #19
    bill nyecycles the sci guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimagnolo View Post
    Best post of the thread!
    It really tied the thread together.

    Quote Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
    Being prepared to track straight and true, to go the right direction. Isn't that what makes a bicycle?

    Sure, that, and a pair of tires.

    But what makes a person a person is continually redefined by ourselves and others. Most of us tend to be trapped into being defined by what we do rather than by who we are.
    Well done.

  20. #20
    Senior Member avidone1's Avatar
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    A bike is like a woman. You ride the **** out of it till it goes flat then you trade it in for a newer model and start all over again.
    A man is the pig who would do that.
    Treasure Coast Florida

  21. #21
    bill nyecycles the sci guy's Avatar
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    um

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