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Old 09-28-05, 08:14 AM   #1
Portis
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Uhhhhhhh. Anyone think that this kid is too young to be shooting doves?

It is funny how the dad doesn't even acknowledge the fact that the gun knocked the little fart to the ground.
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Old 09-28-05, 08:28 AM   #2
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OMG, its funny but a little scary at the same time.
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Old 09-28-05, 08:48 AM   #3
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I think he just needed a smaller shotgun. That might've been a .410, but looked to me like a 20 gauge. Plus, the stock was almost as long as his arm. No way for him to get a secure weld on that weapon, IMO.

I don't have kids, but if I did have a child his age/size, I think I'd wait awhile on the firearm training/hunting unless I had weapons their size.
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Old 09-28-05, 08:51 AM   #4
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I've got to agree with Kaldar. If you're going to take them afield give them a weapon that is sized properly for them. Never too young to learn proper firearm safety.
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Old 09-28-05, 09:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger
Uhhhhhhh. Anyone think thatthis kid is too young to be shooting doves?
Never too soon to start instilling a contempt for life.

I'm distressed that the (apparently serious) posts here are debating the choice of weapon for this kid's age. Everybody's cool with the idea that this kid is learning to enjoy killing for the sake of killing. Oh well, now we can go back to debating why the world is so fu˘&ed up.
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Old 09-28-05, 09:50 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konageezer
Never too soon to start instilling a contempt for life.

I'm distressed that the (apparently serious) posts here are debating the choice of weapon for this kid's age. Everybody's cool with the idea that this kid is learning to enjoy killing for the sake of killing. Oh well, now we can go back to debating why the world is so fu˘&ed up.
Hunting doesn't necessarily mean a contempt for life or that he is killing for the sake of killing. Granted, I'm at work and don't know if the audio portion of the video had something in it that showed this.

Very few firearm accidents occur from children who are properly trained in firearm safety. In most states, you can take a firearms safety course at any age. Even if I decide to not keep guns in my home, my future child will take a firearms safety course.

Also, hunting is not "killing for the sake of killing." If he kills it and then eats it, I don't see how it's too much different than buying meat at a grocery store other than "someone else did the killin"
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Old 09-28-05, 10:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfamousG
Hunting doesn't necessarily mean a contempt for life or that he is killing for the sake of killing. Granted, I'm at work and don't know if the audio portion of the video had something in it that showed this.

Very few firearm accidents occur from children who are properly trained in firearm safety. In most states, you can take a firearms safety course at any age. Even if I decide to not keep guns in my home, my future child will take a firearms safety course.

Also, hunting is not "killing for the sake of killing." If he kills it and then eats it, I don't see how it's too much different than buying meat at a grocery store other than "someone else did the killin"
They're shooting doves.
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Old 09-28-05, 10:05 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konageezer
They're shooting doves.
According to the Audio?
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Old 09-28-05, 10:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfamousG
According to the Audio?
"What do you think about dove huntin', boy?"
"I like it."
"What'd you do on your first shot?"
"Shot him right in the neck."
"D'he go down?"
"Yep."
"All right, buddy, I'm gonna get you on video shootin' your next one. All right?"
"All right."
"All right."
"Git 'im! Git 'im! Git 'im! Git 'im! Git 'im! Git 'im! Git 'im! Git 'im! Git 'im! Git 'im! "
BLAM
"Ohhh, good shot, dude!"
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Old 09-28-05, 10:21 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konageezer
Never too soon to start instilling a contempt for life.

I'm distressed that the (apparently serious) posts here are debating the choice of weapon for this kid's age. Everybody's cool with the idea that this kid is learning to enjoy killing for the sake of killing. Oh well, now we can go back to debating why the world is so fu˘&ed up.
I am cool with a kid learning all aspects of firearm safety. I'm not cool with a 4 year old learning it. I think i was around 10 or 12 when i got my first shotgun. Funny, i didn't realize back then that i had a "contempt for life" but now I do.

Really the only part I have contempt for is the part where people have lost complete touch with reality. The fact is that life is often about killing. Most species would not be here today without it. This is normal. THe abnormal part is that so many people don't understand this.
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Old 09-28-05, 10:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konageezer
"What do you think about dove huntin', boy?"
"I like it."
"What'd you do on your first shot?"
"Shot him right in the neck."
"D'he go down?"
"Yep."

Ok, then I agree with your point that teaching children to senselessly kill animals just because or for the sake of huntin' is wrong. However, I still stand by my statement that teaching a child proper firearm safety is beneficial.
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Old 09-28-05, 10:24 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfamousG
… I still stand by my statement that teaching a child proper firearm safety is beneficial.
Agreed.
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Old 09-28-05, 10:27 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfamousG
Hunting doesn't necessarily mean a contempt for life or that he is killing for the sake of killing. Granted, I'm at work and don't know if the audio portion of the video had something in it that showed this.

Very few firearm accidents occur from children who are properly trained in firearm safety. In most states, you can take a firearms safety course at any age. Even if I decide to not keep guns in my home, my future child will take a firearms safety course.

Also, hunting is not "killing for the sake of killing." If he kills it and then eats it, I don't see how it's too much different than buying meat at a grocery store other than "someone else did the killin"
How you can say hunting doesn't mean killing for the sake of killing? Hunting is a sport and therefore not nessesary. Okay people may occasionary eat what they shoot but what about all the 'prey' which get away wounded, only to suffer a slow and lingering death. The difference from the 'meat' in the grocery store is that it's usually slaughtered quickly rather than being hunted to near exhaustion before (if it's lucky) shot dead by some trigger happy yocal.
Also why would somebody want to give their child a 'toy' which was designed to KILL!!??
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Old 09-28-05, 10:45 AM   #14
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Whoo hooo! we got us a hunting/non-hunting debate! Somebody call PETA and the NRA!

Now, the next step is to point out that most hunters i am familliar with (i actively hunted from the time was was 12 until 20 with a bow) hunted and *ate* what they killed. Deer are tasty, so are doves, pheasants, squirrells and rabbits. While there certainly are some 'trophy' hunters, it's a small portion. Basically what you're doing is stereotyping hunters into bloodthirsty killers when you say things like "How can you say hunting doesn't mean killing for the sake of killing?" Usually hunting is for the sake of eating.

We won't even go into the details of necessary herd control due to the fact we've driven off all of the natural predators...

Lastly the point has been brought up about merely wounding an animal and letting it linger to die. Well, $*** happens. Animals fall down ravines, run into trees and break legs, fend off a predator but are left with gaping wounds... you get the idea. Most responsible hunters will not take a shot unless they can be reasonably certain of a kill. You simply don't take a shot at something 60yds away standing at 3/4 profile away from you, it's a waste of ammo.

and with that i'm going back to my cubicle cursing the fact my bow is in another state, i'm stuck in the city, and it's deer season upstate.
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Old 09-28-05, 10:45 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heckflosse
How you can say hunting doesn't mean killing for the sake of killing? Hunting is a sport and therefore not nessesary. Okay people may occasionary eat what they shoot but what about all the 'prey' which get away wounded, only to suffer a slow and lingering death. The difference from the 'meat' in the grocery store is that it's usually slaughtered quickly rather than being hunted to near exhaustion before (if it's lucky) shot dead by some trigger happy yocal.
Also why would somebody want to give their child a 'toy' which was designed to KILL!!??

And that's your perspective, regardless how skewed it is, you have a right to it. However, my reality as a former hunter, is: What I killed I ate. All the time, every time. Rabbit, squirrel, phesant or deer. I never "hunted to exhaustion" (I'd like to know where you got that one from) Deer I hunted from a blind, if it wandered in my sights, it was mine. Upland game was hunted without a dog, what ever I could scare up. All my shots were clean and quick kills.

Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in between
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Old 09-28-05, 10:46 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heckflosse
How you can say hunting doesn't mean killing for the sake of killing? Hunting is a sport and therefore not nessesary. Okay people may occasionary eat what they shoot but what about all the 'prey' which get away wounded, only to suffer a slow and lingering death. The difference from the 'meat' in the grocery store is that it's usually slaughtered quickly rather than being hunted to near exhaustion before (if it's lucky) shot dead by some trigger happy yocal.
Also why would somebody want to give their child a 'toy' which was designed to KILL!!??
Most people don't chase after their prey. They sit quietly and wait for their prey to naturally cross their path (or coaxed via bait pile).

The injured animals are an unavoidable consequence of hunting. Just as a squirrel who escapes the grasp of an owl and plumets to the ground badly injured and fighting for it's life or the baby bird flung from it's nest by another bird who intends to take over the nest as its own.

"Occasionally eat" is a false statement. "Rarely don't eat" would be more appropriate. Very, very, few hunters are willing to let their kill rot in the woods because they shot it and don't want to eat it. Most likely the bird that the young boy shot in the video will not be gathered and used, but he (and his father) represent a very small minority of cruel intentioned sportsmen.
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Old 09-28-05, 11:09 AM   #17
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My grandfathers were coyote hunters. They killed thousands of coyotes and were even featured in Esquire Magazine in 1969. They hunted mainly for sport but the fur and ears were also worth money. This pic was taken in tehe 50's.

Coyotes were/are well known for killing young livestock. So there is a need for them being controlled.

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Old 09-28-05, 11:16 AM   #18
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Exception rather than the rule. Kinda like plinking rats at the dump.
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Old 09-28-05, 11:22 AM   #19
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Okay, a little troubled about the wholesale slaughter of coyotes, but…

I've never been attracted to hunting, in spite of growing up in a rural environment where it was quite common. I killed a beautiful Steller's Jay with a pellet gun when I was seven (at the urging of my peers) and the experience really marked me.

That being said, hunting for food in a healthy animal population is okay with me. If you're going to eat it, and can kill it quickly and relatively painlessly, and you're not posing a threat to the continuation of the species, I can't find any fault. I would wish that the whole thing was undertaken with a spirit of respect and humility, but i don't get everything I wish for.

And the prospect of animals being wounded and left to de a slow death is actually lessened by kids being trained in proper hunting practices and in the use of a firearm, so that I endorse.
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Old 09-28-05, 11:43 AM   #20
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I was into bowhunting for deer when I was 12 and 13. Of course, being an all-around **** at that age assured that deer wouldn't come within 500 yards of where I was sitting. So I got nothing, saw nothing, and generally spent the time covered in mosquitos and doe urine. It was then that I decided that hunting was kind of dumb. I do my hunter-gathering thing at the grocery store. Except there's no hunting at the grocery store... so it's more like gathering-paying. Anyway...

Friends of mine love deer hunting and turkey hunting. They think it's great, and they've been hunting since they were kids. Not four years old... but maybe nine or ten. They head 'up north' and sit in tree stands all day long. They eat what they shoot - unless they happen to shoot each other, which thankfully hasn't happened. They hunt legally, they don't hunt at night, they don't put out salt, they don't shine and shoot from the highway.

They do, however, have fun. Not my cup of tea, but to each his own.

Blasting doves out of the sky for the sake of blasting doves out of the sky is bad (quite a limb I've crawled out on there). Learning gun saftey and proper gun handling is a good thing (it's better than not learning it within a gun-owning culture). The kid is too young.

But people can enjoy hunting, eat what they kill, hunt legally, and still call it a sport.
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Old 09-28-05, 11:44 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konageezer
And the prospect of animals being wounded and left to de a slow death is actually lessened by kids being trained in proper hunting practices and in the use of a firearm, so that I endorse.
Added to that, most (sadly not all) of the animals who are wounded in such a way that they have a slow death usually leave a blood trail that is followed by the hunter up to the animal. Few hunters like this method (both for it's time consumption, effort, and good eyesight requirement) but I'm sure most would rather follow the trail and gather their kill than let it rot away in the distance.

Again, there are good hunters and there are bad hunters. I know a few Trophy hunters that have their meat processed and donate it to a local homeless shelter. The meat isn't wasted, the hunter has his trophy, the population is controlled, and everyone is happy (except for the PETA people).
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Old 09-28-05, 01:12 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by InfamousG
The meat isn't wasted, the hunter has his trophy, the population is controlled, and everyone is happy (except for the PETA people).
(and the dead animal )
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Old 09-28-05, 01:17 PM   #23
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(and the dead animal )
Nope, the dead animal is dead and no longer has feelings.

The thing about "sanctity of life" is that we made the whole thing up! Why? Because we're alive! You don't hear Abbott & Costello running around talking about the sanctity of life. Why? Because they're dead.

-George Carlin [Paraphrase]
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Old 09-28-05, 02:06 PM   #24
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I'm a tree-hugging, spotted owl-loving, card-carrying pinko enviro-nazi and you know what?

I have nothing at all against hunting.

But Ted Nugent is a weenie, and that's a fact.
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Old 09-28-05, 02:14 PM   #25
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So I got nothing, saw nothing, and generally spent the time covered in mosquitos and doe urine.
Sounds EXACTLY like my weekend in Vegas.
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