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Old 10-20-05, 08:00 PM   #1
AtlPirate
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Firearms

Who here believes that all firearms should be illegal? Who believes in their firearms, and loves having them around? I personally think that everyone who has an opnion onw way or the other about them, should attend a firearms safety class, and learn more about the things they hate/love.
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Old 10-20-05, 08:05 PM   #2
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I don't own a firearm, but I used to be in support of firearm ownership. But the older I get, the more my opinion is starting to change. In general, though, guns in the hands of citizens do more harm than good. Is this a reason to ban firearms? I don't know. But since there are so many guns already in the hands of citizens, it's a moot point.
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Old 10-20-05, 08:07 PM   #3
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hmm...i dont feel that guns in the hands of citiznes does more harm then good at all. and waht is that based of off.
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Old 10-20-05, 08:08 PM   #4
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P&R please before it's too late.
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Old 10-20-05, 08:09 PM   #5
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P&r?
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Old 10-20-05, 08:11 PM   #6
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Politics & Religon... as firearms are very political, and carry a mnear religous ferver with them no matter which side of the fence your on.
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Old 10-20-05, 08:18 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by AtlPirate
hmm...i dont feel that guns in the hands of citiznes does more harm then good at all. and waht is that based of off.
I'm not going to quote any studies - just an opinion based on my own experience and those of people I know. I have personally known 3 people who have been shot with a gun - one guy was shot by a jealous ex boyfriend of a girl he was dating, one was shot in a robbery attempt and one was shot in a hunting accident. And I read stories daily about people using guns to commit violent crimes. I rarely hear of a firearm that was used by a citizen for good (e.g. to protect themselves or their property). I'm sure it happens, but I would guess it happens with far less frequency than situations where guns were used to rob, threaten or murder. So my guess is that the net effect of allowing citizens to own guns is negative. No need to show me any studies, though. You're not changing my opinion and I'm not changing yours.

But as I said before, it's a moot point. Too late to change anything - too many guns out there already. . .
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Old 10-20-05, 08:23 PM   #8
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i mean i agree that it is a moot point, however i do feel that statistics can be made to show anything that someone desires, therefore i do not feel these are accurate. And with anyhting in the world, there will always bu dumb people doing dumb things. There are some people who have kids and can no way support them , but should they not be allowed to have them? and people drive cars all the time, and casue accidents but should they not be allowed to drive?
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Old 10-20-05, 08:31 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by AtlPirate
i mean i agree that it is a moot point, however i do feel that statistics can be made to show anything that someone desires, therefore i do not feel these are accurate. And with anyhting in the world, there will always bu dumb people doing dumb things. There are some people who have kids and can no way support them , but should they not be allowed to have them? and people drive cars all the time, and casue accidents but should they not be allowed to drive?
Neither babies nor automobiles were built for the specific purpose of harming or killing a living being. Your arguements are quite weak. Go to the NRA website if you want to argue - I'm sure they'll give you the "ammo" (pun intended) you need to support your opinion.
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Old 10-20-05, 08:34 PM   #10
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Hang on one second though...every fiirearm i own has never been used to kill anything...what about people who enjoy shooting at targets...example:Olympic sports? or jsut regular old joe's out in the country or at the pistol range shooting there firearms?
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Old 10-20-05, 08:51 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by AtlPirate
Hang on one second though...every fiirearm i own has never been used to kill anything...what about people who enjoy shooting at targets...example:Olympic sports? or jsut regular old joe's out in the country or at the pistol range shooting there firearms?
If there was a way to ensure that guns could be used only for target practice, then fine, I think no one would have a problem with that. But when you weigh the good and the bad of allowing gun ownership, I think the scales really show it's bad. Accidental gun deaths, guns used in homicides, guns used in the commission of a felony, versus people's right to shoot at targets. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

And guns that shoot bullets with gunpowder and metal points were made for killing things. It can be used for target practice, but it was made to kill.
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Old 10-20-05, 09:51 PM   #12
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Do a search, the quintessential forum firearm thread just fell of the bottom of the screen last week. IIRC, "Do you carry a gun" is the Title.
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Old 10-21-05, 12:32 AM   #13
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Yes, there are several older threads on the subject. Most of them are not in Politics & Religion, so I am not moving this one either as of now.

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Old 10-21-05, 03:13 AM   #14
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It amazes me the people in society who feel they have the right to criticize what type of cars people driver, whether they smoker, their sexual preferences, colour of skin etc. but can justify themselves owning dangerous weapons
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Old 10-21-05, 04:37 AM   #15
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I am not a gun owner, but do believe in the RIGHT to bear arms. Even though I am not a gun owner, I do have strong opinions on it and you are right AtlPirate...I should go and take classes on it.

The bottom line is if the right of citizens to bear arms is removed, then what would happen if the goverment started taking more and more control? What if one day we (the people) decided our goverment had got out of control and was not working for us? How would we overthrow and goverment to start again? We'd have nothing to fight with against a power that may have the army behind it.

The American Forefathers put that right into the constitution (via Bill of Rights) for that very reason. Can any of you say you trust your goverment enough to never be a threat?
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Old 10-21-05, 04:53 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by heckflosse
It amazes me the people in society who feel they have the right to criticize what type of cars people driver, whether they smoker, their sexual preferences, colour of skin etc. but can justify themselves owning dangerous weapons

WTF? No one has the right to make a decission, any decission for another person unless said person is deemed mentally incompotent.

If you want to smoke, fine smoke.
If you want to love people of the same sex, fine do so.
If you want to own a gun, buy one.
If you want to carry a gun, get the required permit.

If y'all don't like the chioces I make, stay the hell away from me.
If I don't like the choices you make, guess what... I'm gonna stay the hell away from you.

'Nuff said!
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Old 10-21-05, 05:31 AM   #17
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When you say that they shoot metal things made for killing....what about every other kind of projectile in the world? Well planes are used for killing should we not fly? cars and turcks as well? not drive maybe? Dogs were bred for killing, now we should get rid of our dogs as well? you wanting to take something away you know nothing about makes no sense...go take a class learn that guns are not evil, learn that it is anther hobby like cycling.
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Old 10-21-05, 05:36 AM   #18
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and im sure that everyone ehre will hate this point, but what happens when someone breaks into your home while you and your familiy are sleeping? you call the police, but jsut because you call does not mean that they jsut magically appear....they will on average take at least 3-4min to get there, and taht is a good response time...now sit there at your computer for 3-4min and notice how much death and destruction can be caused in that time. that is a lot of time for soemthign terrible to happen to either you or your familiy.
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Old 10-21-05, 06:34 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacey
WTF? No one has the right to make a decission, any decission for another person unless said person is deemed mentally incompotent.

If you want to smoke, fine smoke.
If you want to love people of the same sex, fine do so.
If you want to own a gun, buy one.
If you want to carry a gun, get the required permit.

If y'all don't like the chioces I make, stay the hell away from me.
If I don't like the choices you make, guess what... I'm gonna stay the hell away from you.

'Nuff said!
Not sure but I think you've misread my post?
What I'm saying is don't judge me for personel choices (SUV ownership, nationality etc.) which harm no one but feel you have the right to carry a dangerous device designed to kill!
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Old 10-21-05, 06:36 AM   #20
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Call me paranoid but I honestly believe that if you let the government take your guns away then you will have surrendered all sovereignty to the government. Case in point Iraq; look how heavily armed there citizenry was and look at how good of a fight they are putting up against there occupiers. Unfortunately it’s guns that defend a nation, a state, a home, a citizen. If there were no guns then the jealous husband would kill his wife’s boyfriend with a baseball bat. Ban all baseball!!!
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Old 10-21-05, 06:48 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heckflosse
Not sure but I think you've misread my post?
What I'm saying is don't judge me for personel choices (SUV ownership, nationality etc.) which harm no one but feel you have the right to carry a dangerous device designed to kill!
That maybe so, I just gleaned what I was able from the incomprehensible.

Sorry, nationality is NOT a personal choice. Who is judging you?

We are entirely within our rights to form opinions of others. If I want to believe that all people who drive Escalade's and Tahoe's suffer from a basic lack of self worth and insecurity. It's my right. Where my right ends is coming up to you, ang getting in your face about what you drive.

No one yet, criminal or innocent, has been harmed by the 9mm that sits in my purse. Do you carry insurance on that (compensating ) SUV you drive? I'd imagine you do. I too carry insurance on something a bit more precious... my life. Thing is, this policy pays out while I'm still alive, not once I'm dead.
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Old 10-21-05, 06:50 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by jfmckenna
Call me paranoid but I honestly believe that if you let the government take your guns away then you will have surrendered all sovereignty to the government. Case in point Iraq; look how heavily armed there citizenry was and look at how good of a fight they are putting up against there occupiers. Unfortunately it’s guns that defend a nation, a state, a home, a citizen. If there were no guns then the jealous husband would kill his wife’s boyfriend with a baseball bat. Ban all baseball!!!

Yeah! Then we can ban all sticks, butter knives, rocks, string and plastic bags as well! I'm with with you 110% bro!
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Old 10-21-05, 07:07 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacey
No one yet, criminal or innocent, has been harmed by the 9mm that sits in my purse. Do you carry insurance on that (compensating ) SUV you drive? I'd imagine you do. I too carry insurance on something a bit more precious... my life. Thing is, this policy pays out while I'm still alive, not once I'm dead.
No one yet has been harmed by my compensating battered up 1964 Land Rover (which incidently can run on LPG.
My SUV (known as a 4x4 when I bought it ) was designed and bought with the intensions of driving over rough terrain. What was your gun designed or bought for?
As I've said I'm not judging people for owning a gun but on people judging me for owning a 4x4 whilst feeling they have the right to own a gun. What's the difference?
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Old 10-21-05, 07:14 AM   #24
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I believe most firearms should be legal to purchase/own. I my self own a few and I use them for hunting, target shooting and home protection. I also collect military and old western rifles (and a few pistols as well).

The reason most people I speak with give for making ownership of rifles and/or pistols illegal is usually something like, "There is no need to own a gun and why would you want every wacko to be able to own one?" Well, from all of the reading and studying I have done I find that the majority of owners who legally purchased a firearm (there are a few exception but not many) are not the ones who are shooting other people or committing crimes. Around my area the shootings that occur are by felons/gang members who would have a gun even if they were illegal to own.

If you could be absolutely positive that not one thief, ******, child molester, gang member, etc. etc. etc. would not be caring a gun then I would have no need to carry mine. I would still want to have my hunting rifles/pistols because that is how I get a lot of meat for my family to eat. Yeah we could just get it from the store but fresh venison or bear taste much better and you do not have to pay extra to buy meat that was raised organically.

When I used to do some work in the ghetto or poorer areas that were gang infested I did not feel my life was safe so I always had “protection” on me. I did, still do, along with my military training get the proper civilian training (much different then what you learn in the military) and permits to carry and I do believe that every owner of any type of handgun should be required to go through a safety and self defense course that has live fire training as well before they can purchase a handgun. For a rifle they should at least go through a safety course w/live fire training.

By the way, did any one catch the debate between Wayne LaPierre (Executive VP of the NRA) and Andrew Butler (One of the leaders of PETA)? Just wondering how it went.

DBD
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Old 10-21-05, 09:33 AM   #25
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All i have to say to all in here who oppose firearms, and believe that they hodl no place in society is go take a safety class, and then think about that one time in your life when you are goign to need the police to come protect you....what happens if they are to late?
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