Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Foo Off-Topic chit chat with no general subject.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-08-06, 04:20 AM   #1
Ziemas
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Ziemas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Riga, Latvia
Bikes:
Posts: 10,082
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
What EXACTLY are you agreeing to by sigining the Selective Service form?

I was just talking with my wife and realized that I have no idea what one agrees to when they sign a Selective Service form. As I recollect, the form asks for your name, address, date of birth, and social security number. There is nothing on the form to indicate what you are signing up for. Does anyone know?

Here's a link to the form online: http://www.sss.gov/regver/register1.asp

Here's what the paper link that us old folks remember looks like: http://www.sss.gov/Inforegstr-04/images/Formsm.jpg
Ziemas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 05:49 AM   #2
Stacey
Non Tribuo Anus Rodentum and off to the next adventure (RIP)
 
Stacey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 9,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Basicaly you are agreeing to, in the event of of the institution of a draft, allowing the US government to own you life and soul and to send you corporeal body anywhere on this earth (or otherworld) they see fit to have you kill other people and have them try to kill you.


http://www4.sss.gov/seq.htm
__________________
Stacey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 06:03 AM   #3
DannoXYZ 
Senior Member
 
DannoXYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Saratoga, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 11,606
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
I think I ate mine...
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 06:30 AM   #4
royalflash
Senior Member
 
royalflash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Munich
Bikes: Lemond Alpe d´Huez, Scott Sub 10, homemade mtb, Radlbauer adler (old city bike), Dahon impulse (folder with 20 inch wheels), haibike eq xduro
Posts: 1,372
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
I think I ate mine...
five years in the slammer for you then
__________________
only the dead have seen the end of mass motorized stupidity

Plato

(well if he was alive today he would have written it)
royalflash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 06:52 AM   #5
KingTermite 
On my TARDIScycle!
 
KingTermite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eastside Seattlite Termite Mound
Bikes: Trek 520, Trek Navigator 300, Peugeot Versailles PE10DE
Posts: 3,924
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacey
Basicaly you are agreeing to, in the event of of the institution of a draft, allowing the US government to own you life and soul and to send you corporeal body anywhere on this earth (or otherworld) they see fit to have you kill other people and have them try to kill you.


http://www4.sss.gov/seq.htm
+1
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeecake View Post
- it's pretty well established that Hitler was an *******.
KingTermite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 07:31 AM   #6
Ziemas
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Ziemas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Riga, Latvia
Bikes:
Posts: 10,082
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacey
Basicaly you are agreeing to, in the event of of the institution of a draft, allowing the US government to own you life and soul and to send you corporeal body anywhere on this earth (or otherworld) they see fit to have you kill other people and have them try to kill you.


http://www4.sss.gov/seq.htm
I've read that before, but it doesn't tell you what exactly you are agreeing to. At the time I turned 18 I tried to figure this out as well, to no avail.

My wife asked me about it this morning and I realized that I have no idea what rights one is giving away by signing this blank document.
Ziemas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 07:41 AM   #7
KingTermite 
On my TARDIScycle!
 
KingTermite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eastside Seattlite Termite Mound
Bikes: Trek 520, Trek Navigator 300, Peugeot Versailles PE10DE
Posts: 3,924
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziemas
I've read that before, but it doesn't tell you what exactly you are agreeing to. At the time I turned 18 I tried to figure this out as well, to no avail.

My wife asked me about it this morning and I realized that I have no idea what rights one is giving away by signing this blank document.
Ohhhhh.....Ok, I see where you are going with this now. You might want to try this guy for an answer.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeecake View Post
- it's pretty well established that Hitler was an *******.
KingTermite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 07:45 AM   #8
Namenda
.
 
Namenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: "The Woo", MA
Bikes:
Posts: 4,830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziemas
My wife asked me about it this morning and I realized that I have no idea what rights one is giving away by signing this blank document.
It seems that it may be more a matter of what rights you retain by registering. Like your freedom, your property, your money...
Namenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 07:46 AM   #9
KingTermite 
On my TARDIScycle!
 
KingTermite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eastside Seattlite Termite Mound
Bikes: Trek 520, Trek Navigator 300, Peugeot Versailles PE10DE
Posts: 3,924
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I never understood the "point" of the selective service anyway. It's "against the law" not to sign.....so why do they make you sign anyway? What's so "selective" about it? If they draft, then just come and get the kids you want to kill.....you are doing that anyway.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeecake View Post
- it's pretty well established that Hitler was an *******.
KingTermite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 07:55 AM   #10
Namenda
.
 
Namenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: "The Woo", MA
Bikes:
Posts: 4,830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The point, as I understand it, is fairness. If and when the gov't institutes a draft, those that have registered with selective service will be the group from which those drafted will be selected. Those that fail to register will, of course, not be on the list. They may face prosecution. By not registering, the odds of being drafted go up for those that did register. Not fair, eh?
Namenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 08:20 AM   #11
Ziemas
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Ziemas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Riga, Latvia
Bikes:
Posts: 10,082
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingTermite
Ohhhhh.....Ok, I see where you are going with this now. You might want to try this guy for an answer.
Why are you being condescending and sarcastic? It's both unnesessary and insulting.
Ziemas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 08:26 AM   #12
SpongeDad
Overacting because I can
 
SpongeDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Mean Streets of Bethesda, MD
Bikes: Merlin Agilis, Trek 1500
Posts: 4,552
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My recollection is that registration was reinstituted to facilitate administration of a draft. Big issues at the time were 1) if you didn't register, you were ineligible for student loans and 2) there wasn't a process for declaring conscientious objecter status. Also, since every male had to do it, it was clear that there would be no student deferments.

Carter reinstated draft registration. Basically, only Democrats call for use of the draft now, and that's simply a ploy to reduce support for mililary operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Given the size of our volunteer army, the odds of getting drafted are pretty damn low.
__________________
“Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." (Churchill)

"I am a courageous cyclist." (SpongeDad)

Last edited by SpongeDad; 01-08-06 at 09:54 AM.
SpongeDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 08:36 AM   #13
pedex 
dystopian member
 
pedex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 5,357
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Actually the selective service law does not apply to everyone, only US citizens, but NOT US nationals, there is a big difference that most folks dont ever even learn about. Our schools very conveniently do NOT include this in their curriculums, imagine that.
pedex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 09:09 AM   #14
Ziemas
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Ziemas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Riga, Latvia
Bikes:
Posts: 10,082
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedex
Actually the selective service law does not apply to everyone, only US citizens, but NOT US nationals, there is a big difference that most folks dont ever even learn about. Our schools very conveniently do NOT include this in their curriculums, imagine that.
Your information is incorrect. Most male residents of the USA are required to register, be they citizens, legal immigrants, or illegal immigrants.

http://www4.sss.gov/FSwho.htm

WHO MUST REGISTER

Almost all male U.S. citizens, and male aliens living in the U.S., who are 18 through 25, are required to register with Selective Service. It's important to know that even though he is registered, a man will not automatically be inducted into the military. In a crisis requiring a draft, men would be called in sequence determined by random lottery number and year of birth. Then, they would be examined for mental, physical and moral fitness by the military before being deferred or exempted from military service or inducted into the Armed Forces.

A chart of who must register is also available.

NON-CITIZENS
Some non-citizens are required to register. Others are not. Noncitizens who are not required to register with Selective Service include men who are in the U.S. on student or visitor visas, and men who are part of a diplomatic or trade mission and their families. Almost all other male noncitizens are required to register, including illegal aliens, legal permanent residents, and refugees. The general rule is that if a male noncitizen takes up residency in the U.S. before his 26th birthday, he must register with Selective Service. For a more detailed list of which non-citizens must register, see Who Must Register - Chart .
Ziemas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 09:58 AM   #15
pigmode
works for truffles
 
pigmode's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 2,038
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm not sure that there is any actual "agreement" involved in signing, other than a compliance or non-compliance with the laws pertaining specifically to registration. Should an actual draft be implemented, all registered individuals still have the descretion to "agree" or "disagree" after having considered the possible consequences. [edit]

Last edited by pigmode; 01-08-06 at 10:22 AM.
pigmode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 10:03 AM   #16
SpongeDad
Overacting because I can
 
SpongeDad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Mean Streets of Bethesda, MD
Bikes: Merlin Agilis, Trek 1500
Posts: 4,552
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just read that Carter reinstated the draft as a F.U. to the Soviets. We (draft eligible males) weren't concerned about the Soviets. It was a free trip to the jungles of Latin America that had my friends concerned.
__________________
“Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." (Churchill)

"I am a courageous cyclist." (SpongeDad)
SpongeDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 12:11 PM   #17
snickersnicker
Bull**** Detector
 
snickersnicker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Waterford, Michigan
Bikes: 1971 Schwinn Le Tour
Posts: 194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There actually is a process for declaring conscientious objector status. It's extremely complicated and takes a good amount of time. Just another way they try to **** you over. Try searching for the process online. I used to have a link for it, but the site it was on is no longer around.
snickersnicker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 02:20 PM   #18
Namenda
.
 
Namenda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: "The Woo", MA
Bikes:
Posts: 4,830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MERTON
you can always go into the millitary and become considered nuts by them... they won't want you ever again.
Take a medical discharge, and have health insurance for life?
Namenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 02:57 PM   #19
iamlucky13
Footballus vita est
 
iamlucky13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes: Trek 4500, Kona Dawg
Posts: 2,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziemas
I've read that before, but it doesn't tell you what exactly you are agreeing to. At the time I turned 18 I tried to figure this out as well, to no avail.

My wife asked me about it this morning and I realized that I have no idea what rights one is giving away by signing this blank document.
You bring up an interesting point. I didn't really question what was implied by signing the selective service form when I was 18 beyond the fact that I could be drafted. If the nation found itself in a situation where a draft was necessary, I would, and still am willing to go do my part.

As far as what rights you are giving up, nothing really, since registering with the selective service is required condition of citizenship in the US (for us gentlemen, that is). I know it can be discussed much more deeply than that and there's plenty of surrounding questions, but this could be a very long discussion if we went into those in detail.
__________________
"The internet is a place where absolutely nothing happens. You need to take advantage of that." ~ Strong Bad
iamlucky13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 03:45 PM   #20
linux_author
370H-SSV-0773H
 
linux_author's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Penniless Park, Fla.
Bikes: Merlin Fortius, Specialized Crossroads & Rockhopper, Serotta Fierte, Pedal Force RS2
Posts: 2,750
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
- i still have my draft card... registered in Cherry Hill, NJ... i was #222 during the Vietnam War... my lottery draw is detailed here in the Selective Service table.

- i was 1-H during the war, but enlisted upon graduation from college and ended up doing 20 years... i tried to register IV-W, but my recruiter looked at me and said, "Shut up, puke, i'm not doing all the extra paperwork - just sign the papers."

- so i did...

:-)
linux_author is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 05:16 PM   #21
monogodo
NFL Owner
 
monogodo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Irving Heritage District
Bikes: 7-Eleven Eddy Merckx, Vitus Futural, Catamount FRS, Colnago SL, SS MTB
Posts: 1,489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by snickersnicker
There actually is a process for declaring conscientious objector status. It's extremely complicated and takes a good amount of time. Just another way they try to **** you over. Try searching for the process online. I used to have a link for it, but the site it was on is no longer around.
Way back when I registered, I picked up two forms from the Post Office, wrote "I Am A Conscientious Objector" on both of them, then had a willing teacher from my HS meet me down there to witness me signing both. He then signed the one I kept, with a note added that he witnessed me signing the copy which was submitted, and that the submitted copy was identical to the one I retained.

I don't know if it would have held up had I been drafted, but it's a moot point anyway, since I'm well above draft age. I also didn't bother ever reporting my current address between the ages of 18 & 25, as required.
monogodo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 08:13 PM   #22
skiahh
Senior Member
 
skiahh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: CO Springs, CO
Bikes: 08 Stumpjumper FSR Expert, 02 Litespeed Tuscany, 04 Specialized S-Works Epic
Posts: 1,035
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacey
Basicaly you are agreeing to, in the event of of the institution of a draft, allowing the US government to own you life and soul and to send you corporeal body anywhere on this earth (or otherworld) they see fit to have you kill other people and have them try to kill you.


http://www4.sss.gov/seq.htm
As opposed to, in the event of the requirement for a draft, being owned by the state that would otherwise be able to waltz over us and revoke all your rights... like the one where you can make the above statements without fear of retribution to you or your family.

I believe your signature just certifies the information is correct and that you signed the form. The law covers all the obligations, requirements and penalties regardless of your "consent" as indicated by any signature.
skiahh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 09:34 PM   #23
Stacey
Non Tribuo Anus Rodentum and off to the next adventure (RIP)
 
Stacey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 9,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiahh
As opposed to, in the event of the requirement for a draft, being owned by the state that would otherwise be able to waltz over us and revoke all your rights... like the one where you can make the above statements without fear of retribution to you or your family.
Interesting, the closest any foreign country ever came to this occured almost 100 years ago, 1812 to be exact, or were you talking about our current political regiem?

I wholy believe that if Iraqi forces were to don our shores and attemped to 'waltz all over us', the armed citizenry (thank you second ammendment) would show up in numbers far greater than the draft could ever hope to elicit.

FYI ~ I've done my time with Uncle Sam and have an Honorable Discharge to show for it. You?
__________________
Stacey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 09:40 PM   #24
skiahh
Senior Member
 
skiahh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: CO Springs, CO
Bikes: 08 Stumpjumper FSR Expert, 02 Litespeed Tuscany, 04 Specialized S-Works Epic
Posts: 1,035
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacey
Interesting, the closest any foreign country ever came to this occured almost 100 years ago, 1812 to be exact, or were you talking about our current political regiem?

I wholy believe that if Iraqi forces were to don our shores and attemped to 'waltz all over us', the armed citizenry (thank you second ammendment) would show up in numbers far greater than the draft could ever hope to elicit.

FYI ~ I've done my time with Uncle Sam and have an Honorable Discharge to show for it. You?
While I agree with you that Iraqi forces never had the capability to show up on our shores, it's been far less than 100 years since we were directly threatened on our own soil by a force capable of following through. Pearl Harbor was in 1941... and while it wasn't the precursor for an invasion it certainly could have been. Japanese naval forces also approached the west coast of the US during WWII. Other countries have had the capability and possibly the desire in the recent past that only our standing forces deterred. And there is the possiblitiy in the near future of at least one, possibly two powers emerging that could directly threaten us, though personally, I can't see either of them taking that risk for a multitude of reasons.

Me? Currently on Active Duty... 19 years. 2 cruises, 1 overseas deployment, over 2500 flight hours, 23 combat missions in Desert Storm, another handful in Northern Watch etc etc etc.

Last edited by skiahh; 01-08-06 at 09:59 PM.
skiahh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-06, 09:48 PM   #25
Stacey
Non Tribuo Anus Rodentum and off to the next adventure (RIP)
 
Stacey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 9,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiahh
Currently on Active Duty... 19 years. 2 cruises, 1 overseas deployment, over 2500 flight hours, 23 combat missions in Desert Storm, another handful in Northern Watch etc etc etc.
Thats great! Thanks. I hope you don't get hosed on your bennies like so many guy I know have.
__________________
Stacey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:24 AM.