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Old 02-04-06, 03:23 PM   #1
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City creatures vs Country folks

I was just thinking.....do you think it's easier for someone from a large metro area to get used to living out in the country or would it be easier for someone in the country to get used to living in the city?

Maybe I'm getting a bit older......but the quietness of suburbs are starting to appeal to me. And I would really appreciate driving since parking would not be an issue.

But at the same time, I can't picture myself living somewhere that I can't walk a few blocks to:

- the video store
- a bodega
- the dentist
- a hospital
- the vet
- public transportation
- elementary & middle school
- a pharmacy
- a pizzeria
- a fast food place....

and the list goes on........


What do you folks think? How about folks who lived both lives? Lets hear your opinions.
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Old 02-04-06, 03:38 PM   #2
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I want all of you city folks to stay there. I've lived both places, and while there are some attractions (like those that you have mentioned), on the whole, I'd prefer to live in the suburbs, or better yet, in a rural spot that's a couple miles outside of a town.

I despise city cycling, city crime, city congestion, city politics, and (sad to say) in most cities, I would be very reluctant to send my children to city schools (I say this having attended them for grades 6-12). On the other hand, someone who spends time in a city tends to be more exposed to people from a diversity of cultures, and has more opportunity to utilize museums, theatres, and other cultural institutions. I can see the attraction cities have for single people, but that hasn't described me since near the end of Reagan's first term.
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Old 02-04-06, 03:47 PM   #3
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I live in what you could consider the suburbs. I can ride my bike to most of the locations you mention within a few miles ride. On the flip side, I've got a friend who is so the 'city life' guy. While growing up the family had a lake home in the country. Couldn't see myself living somewhere like that year round though. Nice for a weekend to a few month stay during the summer though. I want to be on the outer edges of the suburbs (and for that edge to stay right there dang it) so I can be within short drives/rides to many things yet able to find country back roads quickly for riding on as well!

To answer your question - I think it would be easier for a city guy to go the country if he wanted that change.
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Old 02-04-06, 03:56 PM   #4
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Strange conundrum for me......
I think we NEED cities to be vibrant, cost effective and liveable
areas. Our government needs to put $$$ into revitalizing them.
Developers who build outside of city limits should be taxed hard and
that tax used as revitilization fundng. Developers who revitalize should
be given tax breaks. That being said......I couldnt live in a city. I hate
them. I would live like Grizzly Adams in the wilderness in a tent foraging
with the sasquatches before I lived in a city.
I think a city person would miss the conveniences of having stuff close by
but the riding and peacefulness of country living they would come to enjoy
over time making up for the lack of convenience.
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Old 02-04-06, 04:18 PM   #5
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I'd lose my mind in the suburbs. Personally, I like the convenience of the city simply because I don't need a car or even a bike. I can walk, take public transportation or cab it whenever I need to go somewhere. A bike's just an extra method of transportation that extends my travel range. There's good food, diversity, culture, music, art, etc. and you can to it all easily. This past summer I saw two Shakespeare plays for free, went to the opera and philharmonic for free and saw some free concerts. As for schools, there's good ones and bad ones. I went to an excellent public h.s. that consistently placed prize winners in the Westinghouse and later the Intel Science Competitions.
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Old 02-04-06, 07:41 PM   #6
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I like developers who build outside of the city. San Antonio to me is a fine example of people doing this and the traffic is 100 times more manageable then traffic in Austin.
San Antonio has 2-3 times as many people. Developers are now developing majorly on the outside of san antonio and so if you want to hop to the latest (insert some fancy place to buy designer clothes or hardwood floors or wal-mart) you dont have to go all the way into san antonio, you simply can be on the outer limits and hop onto the outer loop and bam you're within miles of budding shopping malls and development.

Honestly I don't think its possible, nor do I think that developers want to revitlaize the inner cities. Most inner cities of big towns end up being run down and attracting unsavory characters. You could tear the buildings down, Youcould rebuild but the unsavory characters would still be there and they would destroy and steal while the reconstruction was being done and after everything was finished, if it was finished.

It would be nice if the city could cleans itself, but in today's world it's not possible outside of the drawing board.
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Old 02-04-06, 07:42 PM   #7
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Having grown up on farms and suburbs and then moving to the city I have to say I prefer cities but don't mind a mixture. Having everything at your fingertips is extremely appealing for the younger generation imho.
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Old 02-04-06, 08:06 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by TexasGuy
Honestly I don't think its possible, nor do I think that developers want to revitlaize the inner cities. Most inner cities of big towns end up being run down and attracting unsavory characters. You could tear the buildings down, Youcould rebuild but the unsavory characters would still be there and they would destroy and steal while the reconstruction was being done and after everything was finished, if it was finished.

It would be nice if the city could cleans itself, but in today's world it's not possible outside of the drawing board.
Rather than disagree, I'll just point an exception: NYC. As some of us remember, the city was on the verge of bankruptcy in the late 70's. Crime was rampant, the Bronx was burning and movies like Escape from New York and The Warriors reflected the city's doom. Obviously, it's not like that now, although you'd be surprised at how many people that haven't been there since, if ever, still think it is. Crime's down, property values are way up, schools are improving, etc. There's always improvements to be made, but as long as that's recognized, we'll always be trying to improve the city.
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Old 02-04-06, 08:14 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by jyossarian
Rather than disagree, I'll just point an exception: NYC. As some of us remember, the city was on the verge of bankruptcy in the late 70's. Crime was rampant, the Bronx was burning and movies like Escape from New York and The Warriors reflected the city's doom. Obviously, it's not like that now, although you'd be surprised at how many people that haven't been there since, if ever, still think it is. Crime's down, property values are way up, schools are improving, etc. There's always improvements to be made, but as long as that's recognized, we'll always be trying to improve the city.
I'd imagine something like NYC would have to do that - You have 8 million people there don't you?

My experience is partly based upon cities like San Antonio, Austin, Bismark, Albequerque and what I've noted of human nature. I will also point out that I wouldn't be suprised if it's easier to clean up a northern city then it is a southern city. I've noticed that colder weather seems to be a deterrent to some of the riff raff that is capable of surviving down in southern areas because of our extremely mild winters.
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Old 02-04-06, 08:16 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by jyossarian
There's good food, diversity, culture, music, art, etc. and you can to it all easily. This past summer I saw two Shakespeare plays for free, went to the opera and philharmonic for free and saw some free concerts.
Any reason someone in the burbs could not see those same shows or go to those same restaurants? Your statement points up something that I have noticed about urban folks: they seem to have an insatiable desire to be entertained.

I have lived in the city and found it to be frustrating and horribly inconvenient.
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Old 02-04-06, 09:26 PM   #11
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Well it its an average sized suburb, it would probably only take you about 1-4 miles to all those places. Not too bad.
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Old 02-04-06, 09:31 PM   #12
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I'd imagine something like NYC would have to do that - You have 8 million people there don't you?
Used to be 7 million. Don't forget cities like Boston, London, Paris, Tokyo, etc. They're all pretty big too and in pretty good condition.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Olebiker
Any reason someone in the burbs could not see those same shows or go to those same restaurants? Your statement points up something that I have noticed about urban folks: they seem to have an insatiable desire to be entertained.

I have lived in the city and found it to be frustrating and horribly inconvenient.
Anyone can see the shows I went to cuz they're free. And anyone can go to the restaurants. However, since I live here, I can walk to these places instead of have to drive or take the LIRR or Metro North and then the subway. Part of what I enjoy is that there's a huge choice of restaurants aside from the usual chain-restaurant fair. As for an insatiable appetite for entertainment, it's a social activity that you do with friends and can enjoy. Also, it's a pretty unfair generalization to say urban folks have an insatiable desire to be entertained. People everywhere, cities, suburbs, etc., like to go to movies or have bbq's, church socials, fairs, etc. Those are forms of entertainment as well as social gatherings.

As for my experience, it's been the exact opposite. It's been incredibly convenient.
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Old 02-04-06, 09:39 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by jyossarian
Used to be 7 million. Don't forget cities like Boston, London, Paris, Tokyo, etc. They're all pretty big too and in pretty good condition.



Anyone can see the shows I went to cuz they're free. And anyone can go to the restaurants. However, since I live here, I can walk to these places instead of have to drive or take the LIRR or Metro North and then the subway. Part of what I enjoy is that there's a huge choice of restaurants aside from the usual chain-restaurant fair. As for an insatiable appetite for entertainment, it's a social activity that you do with friends and can enjoy. Also, it's a pretty unfair generalization to say urban folks have an insatiable desire to be entertained. People everywhere, cities, suburbs, etc., like to go to movies or have bbq's, church socials, fairs, etc. Those are forms of entertainment as well as social gatherings.

As for my experience, it's been the exact opposite. It's been incredibly convenient.
I think Olebiker is a tad older then both of us
I see myself tiring of the city within a decade or 2
My livelong retirement dream would be to retire to the mountains. Log cabin with T3 access buried up in the forest.
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Old 02-04-06, 09:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasGuy
Honestly I don't think its possible, nor do I think that developers want to revitlaize the inner cities. Most inner cities of big towns end up being run down and attracting unsavory characters. You could tear the buildings down, Youcould rebuild but the unsavory characters would still be there and they would destroy and steal while the reconstruction was being done and after everything was finished, if it was finished.

It would be nice if the city could cleans itself, but in today's world it's not possible outside of the drawing board.
I beg to differ.

I live smack-dab in the center of Downtown Dallas. The building I live in is 100 years old, and was re-purposed into lofts from retail/offices in the late-1990s after about 15 years of sitting vacant. There are two vacant buildings outside my window that two separate developers are going to convert into condominiums (one with office/retail on the lower floors). Another building a block away that has sat vacant for at least a decade has just begun the conversion to retail/loft apartments by a third developer. Two other buildings a block away in another direction are in the process of being converted to retail/loft apartments (by yet a 4th developer), and they're constructing a third to go along with them. Two other loft apartment/retail properties were opened just this past year by other developers. And that's just in the immediate vicinity to my loft, there are others I could list, but I'm sure you get my point by now. In addition to all this new residential development, there has been new retail going in to existing buildings that have sat vacant for years. An athletic shoe store, three high-end clothing stores, a furniture/furnishings retailer and a winery have all opened in the last year. I can think of at least 4 restaurants that opened in the last 12 months or so, and am aware of at least 3 others in the works, and I'm not talking weekday-lunch-only restaurants. A full-service grocery store also opened this past year, so Downtown residents can now walk to get groceries, rather than fight traffic and parking to go to the next nearest grocery store 2-3 miles away (outside of Downtown). They're revitalizing the West End and the new Victory area (where the American Airlines Center is), and have a new homeless services center in the works on the other end of Downtown.

As for the original question, I've lived in rural areas, as well as the big city, and pretty much every type in between. I think it would be much more difficult to go from big-city living to rural life than vice-versa. Suburban life wouldn't be that much of a stretch, because of the "standardization" of the nation with Starbucks, WalMart, McDonalds, Chilis, Old Navy, etc., etc. About the only thing one would miss would be the funky, out-of-the-way neighborhood shops (like the best place for a falafel with a side of hummus and a bobaganoosh). Rural to Urban takes some getting used to, but I began to wonder how I ever lived without ready access to certain aspects of urban living.

Apologies for the long-winded response, but urban renewal is a subject near and dear to my heart.

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Old 02-04-06, 09:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
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I think Olebiker is a tad older then both of us
I see myself tiring of the city within a decade or 2
My livelong retirement dream would be to retire to the mountains. Log cabin with T3 access buried up in the forest.
I can't see myself tiring of the city, but my lifelong retirement dream is to be Anna Nicole Smith's ex-husband. Rich, senile, and married to someone who wouldn't notice.
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Old 02-04-06, 09:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyossarian
Used to be 7 million. Don't forget cities like Boston, London, Paris, Tokyo, etc. They're all pretty big too and in pretty good condition.



Anyone can see the shows I went to cuz they're free. And anyone can go to the restaurants. However, since I live here, I can walk to these places instead of have to drive or take the LIRR or Metro North and then the subway. Part of what I enjoy is that there's a huge choice of restaurants aside from the usual chain-restaurant fair. As for an insatiable appetite for entertainment, it's a social activity that you do with friends and can enjoy. Also, it's a pretty unfair generalization to say urban folks have an insatiable desire to be entertained. People everywhere, cities, suburbs, etc., like to go to movies or have bbq's, church socials, fairs, etc. Those are forms of entertainment as well as social gatherings.

As for my experience, it's been the exact opposite. It's been incredibly convenient.
I am pretty sure that all of the above cities and NYC have the same type of slums and bad areas that really can't be developed just like San Antonio, just like every other place. The amount and ratio varies of course.
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Old 02-04-06, 09:43 PM   #17
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I can't see myself tiring of the city, but my lifelong retirement dream is to be Anna Nicole Smith's ex-husband. Rich, senile, and married to someone who wouldn't notice.
You probably have a whole lot of discovering yourself and the world then
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Old 02-04-06, 09:56 PM   #18
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I am pretty sure that all of the above cities and NYC have the same type of slums and bad areas that really can't be developed just like San Antonio, just like every other place. The amount and ratio varies of course.
Yup, we've got slums, but even the slums aren't the slums anymore. The buildings that got burned during the 70's are where new housing for low and middle income have been built. In fact, part of the revitalization has been small business ownership by people in the neighborhood along with a mix of flagship brands like the Gap, Target and Starbucks. Other slums have been gentrified by younger people looking for cheaper places with more space. They bring with them their own entrepreneurial spirit, opening shops, restaurants, bars, music clubs, etc. And even other slums are being gentrified by the people that grew up in them. Rather than making good and leaving for the suburbs, they've stayed in the neighborhoods they grew up in and revitalized the neighborhood.
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Old 02-05-06, 05:08 AM   #19
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Other slums have been gentrified by younger people looking for cheaper places with more space. They bring with them their own entrepreneurial spirit, opening shops, restaurants, bars, music clubs, etc.
They're called Yuppies.....and they bring your value of your property from $150k to $800k within a few years (check out Williamsburg).

Look at Jersey City. When I worked there back in 2001, an apartment for rent was around $650 - $750 (near the water). Right now in 2006, that same apartment goes for $1,800+

I should have purchased a place in JC back then (now that Goldman Sachs is there......the value of property will sky rocket even more).

I bet within a few years, Newark will be hopping! Great access to public transportation to the City, cheap housing cost.....once the yuppies move in, property value will sky rocket!
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Old 02-05-06, 05:32 AM   #20
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My livelong retirement dream would be to retire to the mountains. Log cabin with T3 access buried up in the forest.
You might as well spring for an OC-3. Here's an interesting note on that point. The cost to pull copper out to such remote locations is about the same as for pulling fibre. The installation cost for actually lighting that copper up as a T3/DS3 is however more expensive than operating an OC-3 along the same distance because a DS3 circuit requires repeaters every 450 feet while LR lasers can shoot out to 100 miles or more over SMF before they'll need an optical amplifier to regen the light. Now once you get into the city where the chances that you'll be close enough to be within the first-mile local loop of a CO are higher, the opex prices on copper based access become dramatically cheaper when compared to a glass-based connection. I'm willing to bet that if you asked for a DS-3 all the way out in the boonies, the carrier would probably just hand you off an OC-3 channelised down and demuxed to DS3 so that only the last repeaterless segment to your CPE actually rides copper.
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Old 02-05-06, 08:43 AM   #21
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I think its easier for someone to move from the country to the suburbs... especially if they aren't home at all. I used to live out in the middle of no where with the worst roads for biking and everything was 2-3 miles away. Even the gas station. Now I live in the suburbs of Boise where two gas stations are half a block, Target/the grocery store/the high school/Starbucks/Block Buster/Maggie Moo's icecream/Pizza Hut/Subway/dry cleaners/USPS ect are a 10 minute bike ride through neigbhorhoods or bike trails. Plus the YMCA and the park are viewable in my front window. There's a skatepark across the street too. Plus 3-4 fast food chains, 3 strip malls, and 4 schools all on the same block. I have access to everything yet I'm right next door to nature about 20 minutes away on the bike. The suburbs are perfect.
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Old 02-05-06, 10:15 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Katrogen
I think its easier for someone to move from the country to the suburbs... especially if they aren't home at all. I used to live out in the middle of no where with the worst roads for biking and everything was 2-3 miles away. Even the gas station. Now I live in the suburbs of Boise where two gas stations are half a block, Target/the grocery store/the high school/Starbucks/Block Buster/Maggie Moo's icecream/Pizza Hut/Subway/dry cleaners/USPS ect are a 10 minute bike ride through neigbhorhoods or bike trails. Plus the YMCA and the park are viewable in my front window. There's a skatepark across the street too. Plus 3-4 fast food chains, 3 strip malls, and 4 schools all on the same block. I have access to everything yet I'm right next door to nature about 20 minutes away on the bike. The suburbs are perfect.

^^^^ Ha Ha...this is all stuff I tried to avoid !
The first house I bought was in the 'Burbs and we had a 'For Sale'
sign back on it a whole 9 months later. There is a 'Burb mentality
and unwritten laws you must abide by to live in them comfortably ...
Some people do it very well, others like myself cant do it for even a minute.
I have come to grips with the fact that I just dont like being around people
equaly as much as I love nature and tranquility. I love having to ride miles
before coming upon 'conveniences'. In Vermont threre are cultural activities
in the little one stop-lite towns and the bus is free, so getting out to do stimulating
stuff is never a problem, you just need to plan a little more travel time.
My next move will be the coast of northern Maine.
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Old 02-05-06, 10:19 AM   #23
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I have lived in all: Urban, Suburb, and Rural.

Urban is very fun, but in the end, I am a nature girl.

The suburbs are souless places with clueless disgusting people.
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Old 02-05-06, 11:05 AM   #24
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Large Metro Area?

City?

Suburbs?

What are all of these?

What qualifies as a large metro area? The reason i ask, is because there are so many different degrees. I grew up in a town of 120 people. I now live in a town of roughly 50,000. So to me and those where I come from, I now live in "the city."

I have never lived in a larger city but of course have traveled to many. I hate them and am very uncomfortable in any city bigger than i am currently living in. Sometimes I don't like living in a city even this size but it is nice to be able to buy a gallon of milk in the same city in which you live. Couldn't do that where i grew up.

So to address your question, personally i think that both parties would have trouble adjusting. It would really depend on the individual. An introverted quiet person from the city may adjust very well to life in rural, quiet America while an extroverted partier from the country, might love the new found spoils of the city.

One thing that i personally believe is that there is a LOT more depression in small, rural America. One of the biggest industries in the small county i grew up in is Mental Health. THey just built a large new, mental health center. I think the lack of stimulus leads to depression for a lot of those folks. It never really bothered me the 25 years i lived there, then again I was drunk most of the time.
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Old 02-05-06, 11:18 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lala
The suburbs are souless places with clueless disgusting people.
Sounds like my job...
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