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Thread: Bio Diesel

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    la vache fantôme phantomcow2's Avatar
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    Bio Diesel

    I've got a friend with a diesel car, and he wants to try bio diesel. THeres a station about 10 miles out from my town that sells the stuff, though cut with petroleum diesel as well. Has anybody else here run their vehicles off this stuff?
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    . Namenda's Avatar
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    Willie Nelson...

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    later free_pizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Namenda
    Willie Nelson...
    yeah, he has a pretty sweet Mercedes S-class diesel..

    To the OP, check this out. GREASE CAR

    a friend of mine really wants to buy a new VW tdi to try out the grease car thing.

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    Senior Member librarian's Avatar
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    I've got two diesels but no biodiesel nearby. For lots of info look at tdiclub.com

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    la vache fantôme phantomcow2's Avatar
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    WEll he went to check out the gas station, I guess its only 5% bio. So not worth it.
    Might be fun to try and make some though
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    Feed me your soul! Jakey's Avatar
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    I work at a GMC dealership, and several customers that have the duramax diesel trucks are using biodiesel. I think you have to change a few things though...not sure if you can just dump it in. We have Kettle foods in town (they make potato chips), all of their vehicles run off their waste oil, as biodiesel.
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    Mmmmm Donuts! FatguyRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by librarian
    I've got two diesels but no biodiesel nearby. For lots of info look at tdiclub.com
    I've got a Jetta TDI. The nearest Biodiesel outlet is 30 miles out of my way. Commercial B100 fuel isnt priced low enough below reg diesel to make the trip worth it.
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    Biodiesel comes in different mixes with petrodiesel, from B-5 (5% bio) to B-100. B-20 is commonly sold in some parts of the country. B-100 is harder to find, depending on where you are. VW TDI Jettas and Golfs are pretty popular bio cars. In the midwest, where there is alot more biodiesel sold, folks run their F-150s and tractors with the stuff. No modifications are necessary to fun the stuff in the cars. You might have to replace the fuel filter a little more, is all.

    B-5 to B-100 varieties of fuel are generally "virgin", that is, the fuels are not made from used Chinese food or McD's grease. There are a few biofuel co-ops around where I live that treat the grease for use in diesel cars.

    The Navy requires biodiesel to be used whenever possible. The closest biodiesel station to me is at the Pentagon (it's a Citgo!) So it's far from being fringe anymore. I wish we had more choice in diesel cars in the US. I can't afford a mercedes, and VWs have too many reliability problems for me. Honda won't bring their diesel cars to the US, oh well, I might as well ride my bike.

    Here are some links that might get you started.
    http://www.biodiesel.org/
    http://www.biodieselnow.com/
    http://www.wnbiodiesel.com/ (Willie's site)
    http://forums.tdiclub.com/

    Next topic: corn stoves

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    England, We Love You..... fifao's Avatar
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    I know a guy who runs an ancient VW Rabbit on fast-food oil.....that's right, as in McDonalds. He calls it the Happy Car, because who would'nt be happy ina car that smelled of fried chicken? It's loud, and looks a century old, but it's really cheap and efficient to run (40+ mpg). He modified it hinself, by the way.

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    Senior Member nodnerb's Avatar
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    Actually, I just saw this on a car show the other day on tv. They ran a truck through a full tank on regular diesel and did all their tests on milage and horsepower etc. Then, flushed the system, replaced the tank, and ran it using biodiesel made from cooking oil. They said it got the same mileage, and no decrease in horsepower. THey also said it seemed to run slightly smoother and the exhaust smelled like french fries. lol.

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    Senior Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Some hippies in Ann Arbor Michigan actually have a natural gas station. Not exactly sure what you have to do to make a car run on natural gas, but the idea seems cool.
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    ???What??? barleyrocket's Avatar
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    I run a jetta tdi wagon and use up to b100 during the summer (b75 in winter) with a pump only a few miles from the house. It doesn't smell like anything but burning fuel in my case(which is good, I don't need the added sensory input of french fry smell all the time). I used to have a Golf TDI till it got totalled. I love them both and regularly get 45-46 mpg out of the Jetta. Our Bio is more expensive than the petro version but I feel like it's worth it do lessen our dependence on oil as much as I can.

    Might not be accomplishing anything but I'm going to do it anyway.
    ???Huh???

  13. #13
    Tossed some weight Redrom's Avatar
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    I have a Jetta TDI, and had been running it on B100 through the summer and fall. When winter hit, our Co-op's tank wasn't prepared and the icy conditions caused ice crystals to form. It gummed up my fuel filter and made for some pretty scary performance until my fuel filter was replaced. The shop I take it to couldn't figure what the problem was because the filter had just been replaced 1 week earlier. The Co-op hasn't come forward to pay for the damages that their product caused, so I'm back to Petrol Diesel. I want to support the alternative technologies, and even if it costs a bit more now, I think supporting it will lead to cheaper prices later. But I'm not going to support the business practices of the Co-op, and since they're the only game in town, that means no more BioDiesel for now.

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    . bbattle's Avatar
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    There was a congressman from Kentucky that ran his campaign vehicle on "industrial hemp" oil. Always had a paceline of tie-dyed mtb'ers. Made frequent stops at pizza huts and taco stands.

    Lots of trucks and busses running on propane/natural gas. Pretty simple conversion.

    If gasoline prices can remain high for the next 5 years or so, there will be a lot more biodiesel stations and vehicles that use them available.

    Crappy diesels from Detroit in the 80's and cheap gasoline ever since pretty much killed off the diesel car in the U.S. But the Japanese and European car makers have them sitting and waiting. And once again, the American car makers will be left behind.

    Brazil has been running their cars on ethanol for decades now.

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    . bbattle's Avatar
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    It is a myth that burning biodiesel or hemp oil or whatever will reduce our dependence on foreign oil in the sense that we will buy less of it as a consequence. Foreign oil is the cheapest so it will get used first. Using biodiesel means less U.S. oil will be pumped from the ground. This is the real reason why we haven't drilled in ANWR despite being perfectly able to do so for the past 30 or so years. All these people driving hybrids and riding bicycles just reduce demand for gasoline, thereby helping to lower the price for those in monster SUV's.

    This is not necessarily a bad thing; we can suck the foreign oil dry and then we'll be the fat cats sitting on the remaining oil.

    Meanwhile, it has become economically feasible to tap the humongous oil sands deposits in Canada. And they've got a HUGE amount of oil up there. We've got a huge amount of oil trapped in shale deposits but at the moment it's too expensive to retrieve it.

    Money thrown at ethanol to be added to gasoline is nothing more than corporate welfare. I'm not sure but I believe the energy required to create ethanol is not recovered when the ethanol is burned. The only benefit is a reduction in smog produced by cars but what about the pollution caused by the coal burning plant the supplied the energy to creat the ethanol in the first place? Far better to use nuclear power.

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    That darn Yankee TexasGuy's Avatar
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    Hydrogen
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    For Hydrogen to be of any value, there's got to be a cheap way of making it. Electrolysis of seawater would be great if you had a cheap energy source. Solar and wind are still too expensive. Nuclear is too. Not sure where the break even point is, though. Time for some Googlin'.

    With the high energy prices it's almost feasible economically to install solar panels on your house. Back in the 70's/80's, the only way solar made any sense was when it was coupled with fat subsidies from the gov't. Better insulation, building techniques, and advances in home furnace and air conditioning technology have proven far more effective than going solar.

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    45 miles/week Eggplant Jeff's Avatar
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    You should be able to run true biodiesel in any diesel engine without a problem. When you have to change stuff is when you run it on pure vegetable oil. Diesels will run on oil but not when it gets too cold (the oil gets too thick). And the oil has different characteristics so newer computer-controlled diesels are sensitive to the change, older ones (like the VW rabbit mentioned ealier) are really tolerant of a wide variety of fuel characteristics.

    Biodeisel is made by chemically "cracking" the vegetable oil molecule into a different one that is a lot less viscous. The cracking is most easily done with Methanol (the methanol is a catalyst, it can later be re-extracted from the byproducts) but can be done with ethanol. This is similar to the way that crude oil is "cracked" into the useful products (gasoline, kerosene, etc) except it doesn't require the same temperature and pressure and stuff... you can get the equipment to do it yourself relatively inexpensively.
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    . bbattle's Avatar
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    Very nice economic study of hydrogen generated from wind power in California.
    http://www.its.ucdavis.edu/publicati...S-RP-05-09.pdf

    Highlights the problems inherent in using wind power to generate electricity, what it would take to overcome them, and the costs involved.

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    That darn Yankee TexasGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbattle
    Very nice economic study of hydrogen generated from wind power in California.
    http://www.its.ucdavis.edu/publicati...S-RP-05-09.pdf

    Highlights the problems inherent in using wind power to generate electricity, what it would take to overcome them, and the costs involved.
    toyota has been building several hydrogen engines/vehicles that address the hydrogen problem in several ways. One car is designed to operate well in places that would have poor hydrogen station coverage while others are designed to cover vehicles that would have frequent access to hydrogen stations. From my understanding the technology just is not being researched by enough companies. Maybe 1 company out of 1000 companies that are researching something gasoline or gasoline engine related.
    Life is about hanging onto what you think is important and finding out what really is important.
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    That darn Yankee TexasGuy's Avatar
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    Anybody think they could find a breakdown on the amount of gasoline/petroleum used by certain industries.

    e.g.

    Transportation, possiblybroken down by trains, cars, semi-s, boats
    Industrial
    Electricity producing
    Life is about hanging onto what you think is important and finding out what really is important.
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  22. #22
    . bbattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy
    Anybody think they could find a breakdown on the amount of gasoline/petroleum used by certain industries.

    e.g.

    Transportation, possiblybroken down by trains, cars, semi-s, boats
    Industrial
    Electricity producing
    Here you go:

    The United States consumes roughly 20 million barrels per day (MMbpd) of crude oil. This is a phenomenal amount, and constitutes about 25% of the world's oil production. So where does it all go? The stats show that personal transport accounts for 45% of U.S. consumption -- about twice the consumption of trucking, aviation and shipping combined.

    The breakdown for 2003 is:
    Total oil consumption: 19.7 MMbpd
    Transportation: 13.1 MMbpd
    Autos/light trucks: 9 MMbpd
    Medium/heavy trucks: 3.8 MMbpd
    Jet fuel: 1.6 MMbpd
    Feedstock: 3.5 MMbpd

    http://www.hilltoplancers.org/stories/hirsch0502.pdf

    I
    . INTRODUCTION
    II. PEAKING OF WORLD OIL PRODUCTION
    I
    II. WHY TRANSITION WILL BE TIME CONSUMING
    I
    V. LESSONS FROM PAST EXPERIENCE
    V. LEARNING FROM NATURAL GAS
    VI. MITIGATION OPTIONS & ISSUES
    A. Conservation
    B. Improved Oil Recovery
    C. Heavy Oil and Oil Sands
    D. Gas-To-Liquids
    E. Liquids from U.S Domestic Sources
    F. Fuel Switching to Electricity
    G. Other Fuel Switching
    H. Hydrogen
    I. Factors That Can Cause Delay
    VII. A WORLD PROBLEM
    VIII. THREE SCENARIOS
    I
    X. MARKET SIGNALS AS PEAKING IS APPROACHED
    X. WILD CARDS
    XI. SUMMARY AND CONCLUDING REMARKS

  23. #23
    ???What??? barleyrocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbattle
    It is a myth that burning biodiesel or hemp oil or whatever will reduce our dependence on foreign oil in the sense that we will buy less of it as a consequence. <snip>
    Myth or not. I'm not using as much oil foreign or otherwise.
    ???Huh???

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrom
    I have a Jetta TDI, and had been running it on B100 through the summer and fall. When winter hit, our Co-op's tank wasn't prepared and the icy conditions caused ice crystals to form. It gummed up my fuel filter and made for some pretty scary performance until my fuel filter was replaced. The shop I take it to couldn't figure what the problem was because the filter had just been replaced 1 week earlier. The Co-op hasn't come forward to pay for the damages that their product caused, so I'm back to Petrol Diesel. I want to support the alternative technologies, and even if it costs a bit more now, I think supporting it will lead to cheaper prices later. But I'm not going to support the business practices of the Co-op, and since they're the only game in town, that means no more BioDiesel for now.
    There's bio in Carrboro, and if you find yourself in the western part of the state, several in Asheville. Here's a link to a map where you can find stations. We have only the Citgo around here, selling B-20. If there were more supply, I'd be interested in a Golf TDI (I really hope VWs get better in the reliability department, though)

    http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodi...lfuelingsites/

  25. #25
    Ha ha ha ha ha giantcfr1's Avatar
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    All garbage trucks here in Kyoto run on recycled cooking oil. I believe Germany has the largest number of vehicles running on the stuff.
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