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  1. #1
    Senior Member cyclezealot's Avatar
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    Counterfeit money. what to do?

    Tonight I went back to the Kroger's Food Store where A couple days ago I asked for $100 back on an ATM debit card. Today. Someone examined it and said it was counterfeit. They held it and said if I did not relinquish it I would be arrested. I had not argued with them in any way. It was a $20 bill.
    Seems so often the twisted knife in the neck just raises one's blood pressure. (That twisted knife being those that gave it to me would not accept it.)
    So I just calmy asked her about procedure in such a case. Said the police would be notified. I said OK. And I would prefer the police be called now.Just wanted to know if you hold a counterfeit bill, can not some kind of restitution be initiated.
    So the police officier comes. Everything is ok. I just want to know about procedure. There is no retrival of counterfeit money if you accept it. And I later understood, that should I have had more than one illegal bill on my person - I probably would have been subject to an investigation.
    So I give him my driver's license. Checked with his Sgt. I guess. He turns it over to some federal agency. End of story. Should you get a $100 illegal bill from a bank you are screwed.
    anyone else have an incident to report about this problem. Just curious.
    It was countefeit. Did not have some magnetic stip on the left side of the bill. Now I am warned to check the bills that an ATM spits out at you at 10 PM. As if that will make any difference.

  2. #2
    Non Tribuo Anus Rodentum and off to the next adventure (RIP) Stacey's Avatar
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    Not if you blow the bank up after finding the bills. It's called revenge.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Recieving counterfeit money is like accidentaly buying a stolen car from a thief. It wasn't your fault, but you're still screwed out of your money.

    A lot of the money people exchange is counterfeit. Most people only notice the bad fakes.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    Well, I've known people who surgically removed the mag-stripe from the new bills for fun... You also want to check the other anti-counterfeiting measures like the watermark, colored threads and the micro-printing...

  5. #5
    Senior Member cyclezealot's Avatar
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    So it will do not good to call Kroger management today. Seems they should check it coming and going.

  6. #6
    imminent danger
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclezealot
    So it will do not good to call Kroger management today. Seems they should check it coming and going.
    Indeed they should and in fact the system works both ways. If you are given a counterfeit note by a shop you are legally obliged to hold it and report it to police. You should be careful when doing that and make sure that you have witnesses or that the note remains in the clear view of CCTV at all times.

    This is where your problem lies. If you left the store and at any time the note was out of any recorded or otherwise verifiable view before you retendered it then the chain of evidence is corrupt and you cannot prove that it was the same note that you got from the ATM.

    Even then the manager of the store is unlikely to do anything more than refer you to the company that manages the ATM. Kroger will not be involved in the filling of the ATM and the money in there would not have first come through the hands of the Kroger counter staff.

    You did the right thing in having the police come right away though. Too many people have fallen for the "sorry, this note if fake, I'm going to have to retain it" trick.

  7. #7
    Senior Member cyclezealot's Avatar
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    So many of us get our cash from atm machines at odd hours. Not much you can do about that?

  8. #8
    imminent danger
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclezealot
    So many of us get our cash from atm machines at odd hours. Not much you can do about that?
    The hour at which you get your cash from the ATM has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether the money that you receive is counterfeit or not. It is simply an issue of as and when the counterfeit note becomes the next in line to be dispensed.

    Notes are loaded into the machine in sealed cartridges that will be delivered at fixed intervals by the ATM management company, usually a bank.

    If you suspect that there is some kind of horologically based mechanism that specifically dispenses counterfeit notes at "odd hours" then you should contact the FBI as this would be the type of fraud tht would constitute a federal issue. However, it is unlikely that this would be the case as, AFAIK, all ATMs are subject to federal inspection and sealing prior to being put into service. It would be exceptionally difficult for such a mechanism to be put into a machine and still pass inspection.

  9. #9
    Senior Member bikecrate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander
    A lot of the money people exchange is counterfeit. Most people only notice the bad fakes.
    That's the interesting thing about paper money. It only has "value" because we collectively agree that it does. In a way it is immaterial if it is "counterfeit" or "real".

  10. #10
    so whatcha' want? bigskymacadam's Avatar
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    The bill counters at the Reserve should catch counterfeit bills, so it's improbable that they'll end up in an ATM.

    ATM machine is one of those redundant anagrams. Automatic Teller Machine Machine.

  11. #11
    Forum Admin lotek's Avatar
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    Secret Service is the Gov't agency which investigates conterfeit money.
    as stated above, if you got it you're SOL.

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  12. #12
    Sensible shoes. CastIron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigskymacadam
    The bill counters at the Reserve should catch counterfeit bills, so it's improbable that they'll end up in an ATM.
    Exactly. ATM's--pretty much worldwide--are about the surest way of getting valid currency.
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  13. #13
    2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM slvoid's Avatar
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    What about those no name ATM's you find next to the dumpster at the gas station.
    The one you find next to the body of the drunk homeless man who thought the live ATM was a urinal.

  14. #14
    so whatcha' want? bigskymacadam's Avatar
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    What sux for the OP was that the grocery clerk (when the first cash back took place) should have been checking the bills as they got 'em during the original sale ... that way they didn't get put back into circulation.

  15. #15
    Chairman of the Bored catatonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
    Well, I've known people who surgically removed the mag-stripe from the new bills for fun... You also want to check the other anti-counterfeiting measures like the watermark, colored threads and the micro-printing...

    In HS, I learned to remove that stripe from crisp bills without tools at all, just my breath and fingernails.

    Thing is, you can still tell which bills had the stripe removed, the paper bends in an abnormal way at that pont, since the paper there is split, and each side bends differently. Of course, if someone was to run a steam iron over the bill, that would definately make the legit bill look fake.
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  16. #16
    Sensible shoes. CastIron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvoid
    What about those no name ATM's you find next to the dumpster at the gas station.
    The one you find next to the body of the drunk homeless man who thought the live ATM was a urinal.
    Use little common sense and find another one? It's called common sense for a reason.
    Mike
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  17. #17
    That darn Yankee TexasGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CastIron
    Use little common sense and find another one? It's called common sense for a reason.
    can you explain these reasons? If it was soo common then why do so few people have it, including myself
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  18. #18
    2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM slvoid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CastIron
    Use little common sense and find another one? It's called common sense for a reason.
    How little of it should I use?

    That said, there's nothing wrong with having a big wad of cotton paper, a toaster oven, ink jet printer, black and green toner in bulk, a dye sublimation machine with gold foil, and an inkjet printer with semi-translucent wax in your room...

  19. #19
    Senior Member cyclezealot's Avatar
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    Now I am forwarned about counterfeit money. Might think more to check. My point about odd hours. Should one inspect your new bills at 10 PM, there is no clerk that you can see to complain.Marty. how do you mean SOL. Just out 20 bucks.?

  20. #20
    Senior Member cyclezealot's Avatar
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    In researching this question. What i found out..Lets say you receive a counterfeit bill from a bank or atm machine. And lose you bill as did I, you do have recourse. at least with my bank. You provide them with a police report, my bank will re-emburse you.
    That is what the bank manager told me today. Be sure you mention your belief that you got it from a certain source.

  21. #21
    imminent danger
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    I'm surprised that they do that but I'm guessing that this is a service that they offer to keep customers happy rather than a right that you have.

    Again on your bit about the hours. With ATMs/cash machines, the time of withdrawl is irrelevant. The notes are loaded into a cassette (similar to a clip for a gun), which is then loaded into the ATM and come out in the order they are loaded in. Neither the machine nor the cassette have the capacity to determine if a note is counterfeit and thus reserve it to "odd hours". Therefore if a counterfeit note is in that cassette it will be dispensed when all of the other notes ahead of it have been dispensed.

    To presume that all notes dispensed during "normal hours" are not counterfeit is foolish and you should check every withdrawl.

    Furthermore, the staff at the stores where there are ATMs do not load them. Afterall, would you trust a minimum wager to load an ATM capable of holding several thousands of dollars probably equal to a year's pay? Banks would never underwrite such a system due to the lack of security.

  22. #22
    Huachuca Rider webist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvoid
    What about those no name ATM's you find next to the dumpster at the gas station.
    The one you find next to the body of the drunk homeless man who thought the live ATM was a urinal.
    Try to limit your use of those to making deposits.
    Just Peddlin' Around

  23. #23
    later free_pizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slvoid
    What about those no name ATM's you find next to the dumpster at the gas station.
    The one you find next to the body of the drunk homeless man who thought the live ATM was a urinal.
    I remember using one of those at a Concert at the saddledome in Calgary, i think i took out $200 to buy food/boose/t-shirts for me/brothers etc. and at the time, $200 out of my account was almost half of my balance, but anyway, i did all the necessary actions to get my money, the screen said "please wait for money" and then it gave me my receipt and said "thank you, have a nice day" but no money came out, it was out of money, or faulty or something.. well, boy was i ever pissed off.

    I just took down the name of the ATM company and the serial number, ran to a different machine, got another $200.

    A few days later i went and checked my balance, and the first $200 never came out of my account.

    I dont trust those things anymore, and plus they charge you an extra dollar or two to take money out.

  24. #24
    Senior Member cyclezealot's Avatar
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    Asked the bank I am using here. Charges involved in withdrawing money at the teller 's window. Several dollars more than using an Atm. Suspected the bills you receive might be pure.
    Again, my question about accepting bills after hours. I find any given to me during or after hours; I will try to look and return them on the spot. That's if I have someone to return them to. Not possible at 10 pm..
    Heck. Might be a wise idea to know if your bills are legit...Should you have two counterfeit, I understand you might be investigated.

  25. #25
    Senior Member skiahh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Seldom Kill
    Again on your bit about the hours. With ATMs/cash machines, the time of withdrawl is irrelevant. The notes are loaded into a cassette (similar to a clip for a gun), which is then loaded into the ATM and come out in the order they are loaded in. Neither the machine nor the cassette have the capacity to determine if a note is counterfeit and thus reserve it to "odd hours". Therefore if a counterfeit note is in that cassette it will be dispensed when all of the other notes ahead of it have been dispensed.

    To presume that all notes dispensed during "normal hours" are not counterfeit is foolish and you should check every withdrawl.
    You're missing the point completely. He's not saying an ATM will specifically dispense bad notes after hours, he's saying what do you do if you get one after hours? You have to leave the ATM area so even if you have your handy dandy testing kit and find out it's false and keep everything in the camera's field of view (many have just a snapshot camera, btw) are you going to stay in the little ATM vestibule until morning comes so you can get a teller to replace the countefit bill?

    I think we're all smart enough to know that the bills come out in order in ATMs.

    I suppose you could only withdraw cash from a machine during banking business hours to keep the chain of custody/evidence clean....

    On the other hand, most places don't check 20s and I don't know too many ATMs that dispense large currency. I guess when I go to the casino, I should bring a testing marker, huh?
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