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Old 07-27-06, 05:50 PM   #1
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Landis Busted

...for doping.

If everybody is doing it, it's not cheating, is it?
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Old 07-27-06, 05:52 PM   #2
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if everyone was cheating, we would all have VD and AIDS
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Old 07-27-06, 05:53 PM   #3
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What an embarassment to cycling. It's as bad as baseball - records mean nothing, because the old-timers didn't dope.
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Old 07-27-06, 06:00 PM   #4
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but the old-timers got their records off each other (during the segregated history of the US).
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Old 07-27-06, 06:16 PM   #5
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Meh. Anyone ever hear the phrase 'Innocent until proven guilty'?

They only did the first half of the test.... the other half hasn't been done yet, and that's the check on the first half.

If that comes up negative, he's not guilty, but ... doesn't really matter, does it? Everybody has already announced his guilt... doesn't matter if it's true or not at this point.

Not to mention that at least one doctor has posted that the headlines aren't accurate... that the tests didn't show 'high' testosterone levels... it showed a mis-balance of levels between two types of testosterone, but that the actual levels were low.

So... wait for the verdict, and maybe read up a bit yourself (That's what I'm going to do, if I can find any REAL information amongst all the 'LANDIS GUILTY OF DOPING' false-headlines)
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Old 07-27-06, 06:16 PM   #6
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The old timers would have doped if it was available.

I find it hard to give a **** about pro athletes. Cheaters or not.
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Old 07-27-06, 06:18 PM   #7
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I'm glad he got caught. Serves him right. Maybe it will be a lesson to those who are tempted to cheat in the future, but I doubt it.
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Old 07-27-06, 06:31 PM   #8
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It's a set up I tell ya. He's bein' framed. He never even used the stuff, he's just a patsy. It's all a big conspiracy...
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Old 07-27-06, 06:33 PM   #9
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http://www.kyw1060.com/pages/61644.php

Quote:
The typical procedure for urine-testing of athletes involves taking two samples at the same time and bottling them separately. The "A" sample is tested first, and if it is normal the "B" sample is discarded. If the "A" sample shows elevated testosterone levels, the "B" sample is tested, and its results are used to confirm use of a banned substance, Wadler said.

The same "B" sample is also often subjected to the carbon isotope test, said Dr. Don Catlin, director of a World Anti-Doping Association-accredited Olympic lab at UCLA.

Landis' Phonak team suspended him pending results of the backup "B" sample.
http://www.newsday.com/ny-sptour0728...tory?track=rss
Well... among other things I've learned so far is that something as simple as dehydration can affect the ratio of testosterone:epi-testosterone.... Rember all the water bottles he went through during his incredible comeback? He was pouring them on his head... this was recommended by his coach to keep his sweating down because the day before he became pretty dehydrated (One of the reasons for his dismal performance)

There is another test they'll do to verify whether the testosterone is natural or not... but, before you judge him guilty, consider this: Testosterone is used during TRAINING to build muscles faster.... there's very little to gain by using a banned substance like that during the tour, and a WHOLE lot to lose. If he had been using it, it would have shown up in his samples before this.

I guess it's pretty obvious that I believe he's innocent, but... I also believe in waiting for the system to do it's job before you pronounce someone guilty.

The media is doing the sport a HUGE disservice in the interest of gaining a few more viewers/readers with sensational headlines.
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Old 07-27-06, 06:57 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by MERTON
where did the term patsy come from and what does it actually mean?
They're the little latex things that ladies glue on the ends of their nipples so that stuckup *******s don't have to be reminded of how sexually frustrated and confused they are...

Oh... wait. Patsy... nevermind.
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Old 07-27-06, 07:14 PM   #11
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patsy"fall guy, victim of a deception," 1903, of unknown origin, possibly an alteration of It. pazzo "madman" (see patch (2)), or south It. dial. paccio "fool." Another theory traces it to Patsy Bolivar, character in an 1880s minstrel skit who was blamed whenever anything went wrong.
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Old 07-27-06, 07:36 PM   #12
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I'm going to wait until:

1. The "B" sample results come back
2. We hear all the facts
3. Floyd and other doctors weigh in on numbers 1 & 2


I would like to think he did not cheat/dope. It's surely possible. But, I'm going to reserve my judgement until we know all the facts. For him, even if he is proven innocent and keeps his TDF title, this will follow him forever now. It's a shame on many levels.
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Old 07-27-06, 08:12 PM   #13
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Did anyone notice how unusually angry and moody he was after his stage win after the break away? Almost like he turned into the hulk... you know... the drug hulk...
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Old 07-27-06, 09:21 PM   #14
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When are you guys going to get it through your skulls? They are all "doping". Cyclists, baseball players, football players, sprinters...everyone.

Why are we in such denial? It's a shame yes, but the fact of the matter is that it is basic human nature. You think atheletes have gotten bigger faster and stronger in the past 50 years due to to some major breakthroughs in natural selection and evolution?

Lance armstrong used drugs to help improve himself, jan ullrich has too, ray lewis has to. Get over it, accept it...move on.
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Old 07-27-06, 10:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cycle17
For him, even if he is proven innocent and keeps his TDF title, this will follow him forever now. It's a shame on many levels.
Yeah... They shouldn't release the results before the tests are complete, but then... where would the news organizations get their sensational headlines?
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Old 07-28-06, 07:31 AM   #16
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I too want to wait tell the second sample comes back. But with that said, what kind of world do we live in that pro-athletes feel like they have cheat to win?? Its horrible to me. I really hope for the sake of Americans and cycling that its not true. People need to compete naturally, if you have to take something to make you bigger, faster, stronger I think its wrong!!! I raced my first mountain bike, I knew from the get go that there we girls faster then me. I still BUSTED my arsh to do my best. It brought me third place and happiness knowing I worked fairly!!!
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Old 07-28-06, 09:18 AM   #17
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+1 on bmclaughlin807 and cycle17's posts.

Lest we be guilty of the sin of believing everything we read and hear. From what I've learned over the past day or so, I expect there will be changes in how this particular test will be used in the future. It does serve a useful purpose to indicate a potential problem, but further analysis is needed in order to determine the truth. A positive "B" sample would only mean that the ratio was indeeed out of whack, but would not constitute the further analysis that is needed.

btw - I like truth.
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Old 07-28-06, 09:49 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmclaughlin807
There is another test they'll do to verify whether the testosterone is natural or not... but, before you judge him guilty, consider this: Testosterone is used during TRAINING to build muscles faster.... there's very little to gain by using a banned substance like that during the tour, and a WHOLE lot to lose. If he had been using it, it would have shown up in his samples before this.
I agree, innocent until proven otherwise but that statement is semi false. Steroids (depending on which one he "took") could in fact assist muscle recovery. Thats one of the biggest benefits, it allows the bodybuilder (stereotyping I realize) to recover at an unreal rate so he can hit the gym the next day. So intheory, with the right cycle, steroids could offer live results on the fly. That could also be used to explain a dead ride, and sudden recovery to the strongest rider on earth.

Again not accusing, I don't care mostly because I don't believe any of them are 100% clean (as with all pro sports) but proper use of anabolic steroids could in fact do exactly what happened.
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Old 07-30-06, 09:53 PM   #19
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I know nothing about any of this, but I wonder if FIFI the poodle would have brought this out five days later if the winner was French?
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Old 07-30-06, 11:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmclaughlin807
The media is doing the sport a HUGE disservice in the interest of gaining a few more viewers/readers with sensational headlines.
That was my thought last month when they kicked Ulrich (sp?) and the bunch out the day before the tour based on evidence that (as far as I could ascertain) they'd had since last year. Regardless of whether they were cheating or not, it seemed to coincidentally timed.
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Old 07-30-06, 11:56 PM   #21
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Wow, alot of "truthiness" in this thread.
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Old 07-31-06, 12:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelstrom
So intheory, with the right cycle, steroids could offer live results on the fly. That could also be used to explain a dead ride, and sudden recovery to the strongest rider on earth.

Again not accusing, I don't care mostly because I don't believe any of them are 100% clean (as with all pro sports) but proper use of anabolic steroids could in fact do exactly what happened.
I'm leaning more towards this reasoning.
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Old 07-31-06, 02:34 AM   #23
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I'm sure the Mennonites have something written somewhere against doping before a major sporting event.

We're talking about the competitors. I'm sure doping the spectators is allowed, if not mandatory for most sports. Excluding spelling B's.
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