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Old 09-22-06, 05:09 PM   #1
flair1111
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pay raises?

I trusted my boss was being fair to me and everyone else on our pay. We are all friends and get along great. I thought he was a trustworthy guy, but found out he isnt as trustworthy as i thought. Now first I relize a boss/company will try to pay as little as they can get away with, but this is rediculous. Hes told us that $11.00 - $13.00 an hour is all he can afford to pay a person in my position. I make $12.75. Its very low compared to the average in the surveying field for what I do, but we all try and work together and be fair. He recently hired a new guy from Atlanta to fill a vacant position like mine. We all assumed he started out at around $12-$13 an hour. We found out via "check stub in truck", he is making $17.50 an hour! To beat it all, he doesnt have a clue how to do the job and is so slow. I set 17 pins and marked 10 lines in 8 hours, while he set only 2 and marked one in the same day!! I even have to show and explain to him how to do the job when we are working together. Ive lost respect for my boss and feel taken advantage of, and now relize he only acts like he want to be honest just to keep the rest of us low paid so he makes more. He has been told we all know about the huge pay gap, and he is going to give us all a raise next week he says. Dont know how much... Most raises he gives are only .50 on the hour. im loosing it.
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Old 09-22-06, 05:12 PM   #2
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Old 09-22-06, 05:50 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by flair1111
He has been told we all know about the huge pay gap, and he is going to give us all a raise next week he says. Dont know how much... Most raises he gives are only .50 on the hour. im loosing it.
Sorry to hear about your grief and welcome to the real world. People are machines that respond to subjective impressions and feelings, that's the bottom line. The best way to get through life and the world is to learn the strategies that deal effectively with people's feelings, that's the bottom line. Your boss, and none that I know of, evaluates an employee's contribution to the company on a purely objective or points system:

1. straight-A grades = 20/20 points
2. on-time most of the month = 15/20 points
3. can do XYZ job in ABC seconds = 100/ABC points

and they certainly don't allocate pay on an objective scale either, hourly = 100.00*points.

Nope, what really happens and the most important factor is "how they feel about you". Obviously the new hire was able to talk to your boss and presented himself in a way that convinced your boss that his experience, skills and contribution to the company was worth that pay. Now I bet you don't have any sort of review system and performance-measurements in place in order to judge employee's contributions to the company huh? If so, it's going to be impossible for him to justify pay-scales and raises. That's life.

Your best bet is to get away from hourly-pay and salaries. Personally I think the best compensation method should be 100% commission + profit-sharing. Your pay is directly the results of the benefits you give to your boss and customers. If you don't bust your @ss and do the best you can while continually improving your skills, then the next person is gonna get that money.
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Old 09-22-06, 05:51 PM   #4
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hehe!! Im way ahead of you. After my vacation in November Im gonna shop around and see what i can get.
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Old 09-22-06, 06:11 PM   #5
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Your best bet is to get away from hourly-pay and salaries. Personally I think the best compensation method should be 100% commission + profit-sharing. Your pay is directly the results of the benefits you give to your boss and customers. If you don't bust your @ss and do the best you can while continually improving your skills, then the next person is gonna get that money.
I wish it was that way. He started a quarterly profit sharing check about 1 1/2 years ago and at first it was good. Then he started changing the rules. He started assigning "bonus points" for work above and beyond the call of the job. Each point was worth X amount of money based on the companys profit. At first we all got alot of extra money on top of the bonus due to points earned because we all worked hard. Then the next quarter we relized we werent getting all of the points we earned. This has continued. We got our quarter bonus today only to find out he once again changed the rules. Now instead of points being worth that equal to the profit we made for the company, they are now a flat $20 each which is down from usually $37 in the past. He is just greedy and Ive lost respect for him. I see its time to move on, its his company and he can do as he sees fit, but I wont be there for it any longer than nessecary. Enough is enough.
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Old 09-22-06, 06:16 PM   #6
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He's probably a son of somebody the boss knows.

Again, when it comes to jobs like these, it's all about who ya know, not what ya know. A good friend of mine who dropped out of college after 1 year makes about 2/3's more than me at some guido filled BS construction supply company. VP is dad's long time friend and are neighborhood chums.
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Old 09-22-06, 06:20 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by flair1111
I wish it was that way. He started a quarterly profit sharing check about 1 1/2 years ago and at first it was good. Then he started changing the rules. He started assigning "bonus points" for work above and beyond the call of the job. Each point was worth X amount of money based on the companys profit. At first we all got alot of extra money on top of the bonus due to points earned because we all worked hard. Then the next quarter we relized we werent getting all of the points we earned. This has continued. We got our quarter bonus today only to find out he once again changed the rules. Now instead of points being worth that equal to the profit we made for the company, they are now a flat $20 each which is down from usually $37 in the past. He is just greedy and Ive lost respect for him. I see its time to move on, its his company and he can do as he sees fit, but I wont be there for it any longer than nessecary. Enough is enough.
Yeah, the percentage of companies that truly share their wealth with their employees is a tiny minority. But they're out there. Good luck on your search!
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Old 09-22-06, 07:18 PM   #8
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I've been going there and a few local sites too almost every day looking for work lately, but my state is screwed. There just isn't anything out there. Its becoming like a big ghost town in michigan. Everybody is being layed off, or going out of buisness and leaving the state. The Big 3 missed the signs, and now the people of michigan are paying the price.
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Old 09-22-06, 07:48 PM   #9
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I've been going there and a few local sites too almost every day looking for work lately, but my state is screwed. There just isn't anything out there. Its becoming like a big ghost town in michigan. Everybody is being layed off, or going out of buisness and leaving the state. The Big 3 missed the signs, and now the people of michigan are paying the price.
I'm with you...I've been keeping an eye on Detroit for a while. When (not if) the big 3 crumble to their knees and have to get bailed out by the government there will be a trickle effect through all of their suppliers and the suppliers of their suppliers.

My company falls into the last category, but Automotive is one of our smallest markets....still....


...maybe our steel prices will finally start coming down....

BTW - it's not just Michigan. Ohio is sucking wind and Chicago's manufacturing sector is also suffering. Hell we just closed a plant laying off over 160. Then again we're making money...record amounts...*shudder* the auto guys aren't.
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Old 09-22-06, 07:52 PM   #10
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Yeah, I know about Ohio. I got relatives there.

I'll tell you what, 160 ain't bad. We've lost tens and tens of thousands of jobs in the last two years. Everybody here knows someone who got sacked.

Luckily for me, my union told me I might be able to get some work in, especially if I'm willing to do some major driving. I'll be talking to them on the 30th.
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Old 09-22-06, 10:54 PM   #11
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Don't be too hard on your boss too fast. He most likely gets told a level he's expected to keep his budget at. If he's decent at all, he'll try to get more than that, but his say only carries so far with the higher ups. Getting a new position approved probably created an opportunity for better pay for just that one hire. I doubt he feels great about the situation, but again, he can only affect it so much.

I'd keep an eye out for other jobs and try to line up an interview. At the very least having a competitive offer will be a good bargaining chip, or you may find a better opportunity with another company.
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Old 09-22-06, 11:06 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Michigander
I've been going there and a few local sites too almost every day looking for work lately, but my state is screwed. There just isn't anything out there. Its becoming like a big ghost town in michigan. Everybody is being layed off, or going out of buisness and leaving the state. The Big 3 missed the signs, and now the people of michigan are paying the price.
Ya know, the hunting out here is as good as the cycling. High desert venison is extremely yummy. It's a better job market than MI right now, especially in construction. There are a surprising number of MI immigrants here. It's a gun friendly state.
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Old 09-23-06, 05:57 AM   #13
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We have issues like that where I work.

We lost our best operator/soon to be tech a month ago. Why? 7 years on the job, and a new hire with zero skills was making 15% more than her.

Then we found out our "other" line (I couls say what it is, but then I would have to sick the black helicopters on you ))....people transferring there (experienced people I may add) end up making only 60-65% of what an inexperienced new-hire gets.

Our raises are crap, "cost of living" raises.

Welcome to the real world....if your raise covers more than the rent increase, you are doing better than I am. Actually, I'm half tempted to find a way to get let go and re-hired, just to get new-hire wages, which is about $3.50/hr more than I am making right now.
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Old 09-23-06, 09:51 AM   #14
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Confront your boss. Share your concerns. Ask for a raise.
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Old 09-23-06, 10:58 AM   #15
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Ya know, the hunting out here is as good as the cycling. High desert venison is extremely yummy. It's a better job market than MI right now, especially in construction. There are a surprising number of MI immigrants here. It's a gun friendly state.
Yeah, I have relatives who couldn't live more than 10 miles from you. Only thing I don't like is the rain. If I move, east of Kali would be where I would head. I'm sick of rain and snow. I don't mind heat, or dry cold, so if I have to move out of state I'm gonna be picky.
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Old 09-23-06, 12:08 PM   #16
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Yeah, I have relatives who couldn't live more than 10 miles from you. Only thing I don't like is the rain. If I move, east of Kali would be where I would head. I'm sick of rain and snow. I don't mind heat, or dry cold, so if I have to move out of state I'm gonna be picky.
Nevada's got the high desert venison, too.
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Old 09-23-06, 12:13 PM   #17
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I figure hunting I can always fly around for. But yeah, Nevada would be good all around. I know theres plenty of work in vegas, I have a couple relatives who live there too.
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Old 09-23-06, 05:03 PM   #18
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Old 09-23-06, 05:48 PM   #19
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Don't be too hard on your boss too fast. He most likely gets told a level he's expected to keep his budget at. If he's decent at all, he'll try to get more than that, but his say only carries so far with the higher ups. Getting a new position approved probably created an opportunity for better pay for just that one hire. I doubt he feels great about the situation, but again, he can only affect it so much.

I'd keep an eye out for other jobs and try to line up an interview. At the very least having a competitive offer will be a good bargaining chip, or you may find a better opportunity with another company.
Thanks for reading, but he is the higher up, He is the owner. yep.
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Old 09-24-06, 12:12 AM   #20
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Thanks for reading, but he is the higher up, He is the owner. yep.
Well, I guess I been shot down.

Still, if he genuinely values your work and realizes that you won't settle for much less than you're worth, he'll offer you a respectable wage. Polish up that resume.
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Old 09-24-06, 01:01 AM   #21
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Well, I guess I been shot down.

Still, if he genuinely values your work and realizes that you won't settle for much less than you're worth, he'll offer you a respectable wage. Polish up that resume.
I hope so. He claims Im one of his best, but hes cheap. Ill talk to him Monday and see where I stand. If nothing comes of it Ill start looking elsewhere.
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