Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 40
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    121
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    moving to Holland?

    Short version

    I have been offered a staff role in an Oil and Gas Consultancy firm (global leader) to be situated in the Netherlands (Zoetemeer, a town of 115,000 outside the Hague).

    Long Version

    I am 26. Graduated in 2005. I live in Australia and have never been overseas. My Mum is Dutch. English is my sole language. I have been working about 18 months total. At 3rd job which I love. I am a supervisor of my own department after some strong successes and accomplishments. Paid extremely well (above $140,000) for my age and experience. I have worked here for 3 months.

    3 months ago I changed jobs. Had interviews organised with the big players. Loved the manager for the first interview (my current job) and when he couriered over a strong contract offer 3 hours later, I decided to accept. I took a night to think about it, accepted and cancelled all other interviews EXCEPT one. It was with a French Company as I wanted to travel and have a new start. It turned out that they wanted me in the Netherlands. After 3 interviews, video link up and people flying over to meet me in Australia, I have been offered the job. The Contract is supposedly on its way but I have not seen it yet.


    Questions

    1) Would you make the change?

    Obviously my decision is my own and I will assess it, just curious as to otherís decisions in the circumstances.

    2) What is the lifestyle like in Europe, especially the Netherlands?

    Average work week?
    Average wage?
    Living Expenses?
    What could you get away with?

    3) What else do I need to know/do

    * How much would I need to relocate? Eg. It must be pretty expensive buying everything such as new clothes (different climate) and all the household goods.

    They said that they would provide an apartment initially but recommended purchasing a property due to the favourable conditions for homeowners.

  2. #2
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Saratoga, CA
    Posts
    11,496
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have a friend in Holland if you want to contact him directly. PM me.

  3. #3
    The Guadfather Lecterman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Fart Worth
    My Bikes
    Trek, Centurion, Kuwahara coming soon
    Posts
    1,090
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you are single with no kids, do it. No question. Get out there and live.
    Are you a registered member? Why not? click here to register. Its free, and only takes 27 seconds!
    Help out the forums, abide by our community guidelines.
    "Minor bun engine, made Benny Lava!!!"

  4. #4
    Je pose, donc je suis. gcl8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Odense, Denmark
    Posts
    1,463
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This is a joke, right? You make double (?) the median income (for people of any age) and you're worried about relocation costs and the price of bread?

    Whatever.

    I moved to Denmark on a fraction of your salary and I'd do it again in a heart beat. 'Nuff said.

    Just bring some rain gear. And get ready for the cobbles.

    Quote Originally Posted by yendor28
    Short version

    I have been offered a staff role in an Oil and Gas Consultancy firm (global leader) to be situated in the Netherlands (Zoetemeer, a town of 115,000 outside the Hague).

    Long Version

    I am 26. Graduated in 2005. I live in Australia and have never been overseas. My Mum is Dutch. English is my sole language. I have been working about 18 months total. At 3rd job which I love. I am a supervisor of my own department after some strong successes and accomplishments. Paid extremely well (above $140,000) for my age and experience. I have worked here for 3 months.

    3 months ago I changed jobs. Had interviews organised with the big players. Loved the manager for the first interview (my current job) and when he couriered over a strong contract offer 3 hours later, I decided to accept. I took a night to think about it, accepted and cancelled all other interviews EXCEPT one. It was with a French Company as I wanted to travel and have a new start. It turned out that they wanted me in the Netherlands. After 3 interviews, video link up and people flying over to meet me in Australia, I have been offered the job. The Contract is supposedly on its way but I have not seen it yet.


    Questions

    1) Would you make the change?

    Obviously my decision is my own and I will assess it, just curious as to otherís decisions in the circumstances.

    2) What is the lifestyle like in Europe, especially the Netherlands?

    Average work week?
    Average wage?
    Living Expenses?
    What could you get away with?

    3) What else do I need to know/do

    * How much would I need to relocate? Eg. It must be pretty expensive buying everything such as new clothes (different climate) and all the household goods.

    They said that they would provide an apartment initially but recommended purchasing a property due to the favourable conditions for homeowners.

  5. #5
    . botto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    40,275
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    +2 to the uneeded concerns over relocation costs. if nothing else, your company should be paying for that.


    2) What is the lifestyle like in Europe, especially the Netherlands?
    what do you mean? it's a secular, western democracy.

    much like australia, but without mountains, good weather, or good food.


    Average work week?
    light compared to a US work week.

    Average wage?
    once again: what does it matter, considering that you already have your contract? fwiw the Netherlands is a reasonably affluent country.

    Living Expenses?
    have gone up with € inflation.

    What could you get away with?
    what do you want to get away with?
    Last edited by botto; 01-17-07 at 09:07 AM.

  6. #6
    ....gets the cheese Second Mouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    SLC, Utah
    My Bikes
    Panasonic DX 2000, LeMond Reno
    Posts
    2,538
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've got some friends who moved to The Netherlands about six years ago. He's a chemical engineer and works for BP Amoco building refineries. They have two kids, planned on staying two years and their latest estimate for moving from The Netherlands is two years.

    They live in Voorburg, probably not far from where you'll be (is it Zoetemeer or Zoetermeer?), and they love it. Their only language is pretty much still English, the kids go to a British school, the engineer was a borderline workaholic when he was in the States, but they've kind of embraced six weeks of annual vacation and they're always off to the Alps or Scotland or wherever. They rent a townhouse, so it's easy for them to close everything up and take off for a week or two.

    Do it. You'll be fine as long as you don't expect to be able to find a good local beer.

    Cheers.

  7. #7
    . botto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    40,275
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Second Mouse
    Do it. You'll be fine as long as you don't expect to be able to find a good local beer.
    there's an outstanding local beer, the only problem is that it's in amsterdam

  8. #8
    ....gets the cheese Second Mouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    SLC, Utah
    My Bikes
    Panasonic DX 2000, LeMond Reno
    Posts
    2,538
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by botto
    there's an outstanding local beer, the only problem is that it's in amsterdam
    I thought you were always carrying on about how there's no good Dutch beer, botto.

  9. #9
    . botto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    40,275
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Second Mouse
    I thought you were always carrying on about how there's no good Dutch beer, botto.
    there is 1 outstanding brewery, the rest is mass produced shizzle.

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by yendor28

    Questions

    1) Would you make the change?

    Obviously my decision is my own and I will assess it, just curious as to otherís decisions in the circumstances.

    2) What is the lifestyle like in Europe, especially the Netherlands?

    Average work week?
    Average wage?
    Living Expenses?
    What could you get away with?

    3) What else do I need to know/do

    * How much would I need to relocate? Eg. It must be pretty expensive buying everything such as new clothes (different climate) and all the household goods.

    They said that they would provide an apartment initially but recommended purchasing a property due to the favourable conditions for homeowners.

    If the contract is circa Ä100K nett, I'd do it. Western Europe is a lot more expensive than Perth, but it also isn't thousands of km from everywhere else. Dutch girls are pretty too, if a bit taller than average.

    You'll find that you can rent properties that are fully furnished.

    If you come over and don't like it you can always go back.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    121
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    thanks guys, right now there is a MASSIVE BOOM, hence my inflated responsibilities and income. Thus, if I returned, I may not get such a lucrative position if the economy was in decline. That said, they may retrench me from my lucrative position if there was a decline too....

    English: THe guys who interviewed me (French and Dutch) HAD FAR BETTER ENGLISH than I and many of the people I live around. Incredible how they would just change from language to language with ease. However, all commercial dealings are in English. Thus I can work. I SHALL learn Dutch but am told it is hard because most people speak English. I SHALL make an effort though and hopefully hearing it as a kid (from family) will help speed the transition.

    The plan would be a 2-4 year stint at least. Weekends and holidays to be spent traveliing Europe and expanding my perspectives.

    I would LOVE to continue my Savate training but would train the best place that I could, regardless of the art. Eg. I hear Muay Thai is great over there!


    The guys explained hypotheekrenteaftrek. Thanks!


    Do you think my personality would fit though:

    I am hard working but like to relax too. I like training a lot and nature/lifestyle. I ride my bike to work as this is an easy way to stay fit. I train weights with partners which gives me A MUCH better workout. Hopefully can find a good gym there. *are they popular? Expensive?

    I do not drink or smoke or do drugs and do not intend to. Personal choice. I HATE SMOKING passionately in public. I like dancing and having fun at clubs but did not go out because of the smoke. Australia now has no smoking rules here so I go out and have a blast.

    Not a big thing, but I do hope smoking is kept to private areas Are they intending on changing the laws in Holland I wonder?



    * Oh and as for the money, it is TRULY amazing how true the statement is that the more you earn the more you spend. The key with money is to spend less than you earn NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU EARN.



    ** As for the Contract and knowing the details, SO frustrating. It was sent from Holland to Australia courier express in 2 days! Amazing. I was not present to accept the package so the Perth Company left a note. I phoned to pick it up but they have a 48 hour turnaround. As today is Thursday, that means I cannot get the parcel (details) until Monday. 2 days across the world. 4 days from across the suburbs.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    121
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    why fine women? No disrespect but I generally have not liked Dutch girls. Very pale like me I have preferred the darker skinned girls. *probably because I am so white myself

    MMMMM middle eastern, indian, Brazillian, mmmmmmmmmmmm

    I am sure I can be convinved though

    * I would love to date a French girl too

  13. #13
    Up there! AdrianB's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Adelaide, Australia
    My Bikes
    Specialized Sequoia x 2
    Posts
    436
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you dislike public smoking, you may find it difficult in the Netherlands. You'll be surrounded by smoking whenever outside or eating out. Having said that, you really do get used to it. My impression of Netherlands is beautiful, safe country. Food is below average in most places - but probably no worse than what you get in Perth at most places. I've also only spent any amount of time in the North (Utrect and up). The south is generally less romantic.

    I'd seriously research the area you're moving to - public transport, weather, entertainment, culture - and decide if it is for you. There are towns in the Netherlands (as there are in all countries) which just don't plain suit some people.

    Also remember, Netherlands culturally is very different from Australia. You'll be expected to dress to a higher standard than Australia, be polite and considerate of your neighbours (no loud music) etc., if you want to fit in. You will be living a lot closer to your neigbours - not to mention bitterly cold winters, rain, drizzle for six months of the year.

    Personally, if you don't mind leaving your family and friends behind it sounds like a great opportunity - just don't take it to lightly. Does this place suit you? Would you prefer to be working in another country? I am sure just as many opportunities can be found for your line of work in other parts of the world.

    If you're into darker girls - in the larger towns there are plenty of migrants. Just remember that the dutch are really quite 'status-quo' despite their liberal lifestyle attitudes.

  14. #14
    . botto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    40,275
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AdrianB
    If you dislike public smoking, you may find it difficult in the Netherlands. You'll be surrounded by smoking whenever outside or eating out. Having said that, you really do get used to it.
    they ban smoking in public spaces, like italy, spain, ireland, scotland, in 2008.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdrianB
    Food is below average in most places - but probably no worse than what you get in Perth at most places.
    have to agree.


    Quote Originally Posted by AdrianB
    I've also only spent any amount of time in the North (Utrect and up). The south is generally less romantic.
    Utrecht is not the north, and i'd love to know what you mean by 'romantic'.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdrianB
    I'd seriously research the area you're moving to - public transport, weather, entertainment, culture - and decide if it is for you. There are towns in the Netherlands (as there are in all countries) which just don't plain suit some people.
    don't know much about Zoetemeer, but it's more or less within the raandstad, so public transport won't be a problem. as far as weather - it's pretty much the same throughout the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdrianB
    Also remember, Netherlands culturally is very different from Australia.
    his mother is dutch, so it shouldn't be a total shocker.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdrianB
    You'll be expected to dress to a higher standard than Australia,
    you're kidding right? this has to be the most caually dressed country in europe. i can't tell you how many weddings i've been to where, apart from the groom, i was the only one in a suit. wouter bos - the head of the dutch labor party - never wears a tie, even when he's visiting 10 downing street.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdrianB
    be polite and considerate of your neighbours (no loud music) etc., if you want to fit in. You will be living a lot closer to your neigbours
    the same could be said for any city.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdrianB
    - not to mention bitterly cold winters, rain, drizzle for six months of the year.
    it may be wet and windy here, but it rarely gets 'bitterly cold'.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdrianB
    Just remember that the dutch are really quite 'status-quo' despite their liberal lifestyle attitudes.
    that is true.

  15. #15
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by botto
    ...but it rarely gets 'bitterly cold'.

    To someone from Perth it would be.

  16. #16
    . botto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    40,275
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by yendor28
    English: THe guys who interviewed me (French and Dutch) HAD FAR BETTER ENGLISH than I and many of the people I live around.
    the dutch speak very good english, but don't overestimate it, like many of them do.

    funny thing. i have a friend, who's been working in perth for quite awhile, who's french, lived in the netherlands, and is a pipeline engineer.

    Quote Originally Posted by yendor28
    I SHALL learn Dutch but am told it is hard because most people speak English.
    that's true. if you REALLY want to learn it, there's an intensive dutch course, that last 2 weeks, in the soouth of the netherlands. a friend did it for his job. it worked extremely well. not cheap, but worth it.


    Quote Originally Posted by yendor28
    Do you think my personality would fit though:

    I am hard working but like to relax too.
    the dutch do like to relax.

    Quote Originally Posted by yendor28
    I like training a lot and nature/lifestyle. I ride my bike to work as this is an easy way to stay fit. I train weights with partners which gives me A MUCH better workout. Hopefully can find a good gym there. *are they popular? Expensive?
    you would not be the only person riding their bike to work. vis-a-vis gyms: it's no different here than any other western country. as far as the price - don't really know, i don't do gyms, but i do know they're cheaper than NYC gyms.


    Quote Originally Posted by yendor28
    I do not drink or smoke or do drugs and do not intend to. Personal choice. I HATE SMOKING passionately in public. I like dancing and having fun at clubs but did not go out because of the smoke. Australia now has no smoking rules here so I go out and have a blast.
    guess you'll have to go down to spain, or italy.

    Quote Originally Posted by yendor28
    Are they intending on changing the laws in Holland I wonder?
    yes.
    Last edited by botto; 01-18-07 at 06:02 AM.

  17. #17
    . botto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    40,275
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Snoops73
    To someone from Perth it would be.
    i thought australians were supposed to be 'hard'?

  18. #18
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by botto
    i thought australians were supposed to be 'hard'?

    Not when it comes to cold weather.

  19. #19
    Team rider jfblodi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Antelope, (upper crust suburb of Sacramento) CA
    My Bikes
    3 Bianchis, 1 De Rosa, 1 Orbea, 1 Nishiki, 1 Schwinn.
    Posts
    371
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by botto
    i thought australians were supposed to be 'hard'?
    urban legend, akin to the I'm-cooler/tougher/smarter/etc.-than-you-cuz-I'm-from-Texas breast-beating we hear from that crowd 24/7.
    Quote Originally Posted by VegasVic
    Give a Liberal a thought and he'll repeat it mindlessly all day. Teach a Liberal to think for himself and he'll vote Republican for the rest of his life.

  20. #20
    Up on the Down Side CyLowe97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Chicago(ish)
    My Bikes
    '05 Felt F65, '97 GT Karakoram
    Posts
    6,325
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hey botto, you mentioned wouter bos above. What's with the name Wouter? Is it like Mike or John in Holland? I work with many Dutch co-workers and a few customers based there. It seems like every other man is named Wouter!

  21. #21
    . botto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    40,275
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CyLowe97
    Hey botto, you mentioned wouter bos above. What's with the name Wouter? Is it like Mike or John in Holland? I work with many Dutch co-workers and a few customers based there. It seems like every other man is named Wouter!
    mike is michiel, and john is jan. never really thought about it, but maybe wouter is walter? it's not that common.

  22. #22
    Up on the Down Side CyLowe97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Chicago(ish)
    My Bikes
    '05 Felt F65, '97 GT Karakoram
    Posts
    6,325
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by botto
    mike is michiel, and john is jan. never really thought about it, but maybe wouter is walter? it's not that common.
    Strange. I know it's like Walter, but just a bit strange how many of them I know. Maybe they gravitate to the IP telecom sector or something.

  23. #23
    . botto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    40,275
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CyLowe97
    Strange. I know it's like Walter, but just a bit strange how many of them I know. Maybe they gravitate to the IP telecom sector or something.
    Kind of like all those guys who get into cycling who are named Frederick.

  24. #24
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by botto
    Kind of like all those guys who get into cycling who are named Frederick.

    Like Freddy Merckx?

  25. #25
    Up there! AdrianB's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Adelaide, Australia
    My Bikes
    Specialized Sequoia x 2
    Posts
    436
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by botto
    Utrecht is not the north, and i'd love to know what you mean by 'romantic'.
    It's not the south either. With respects to 'romantic' I mean the picture postcard stuff. Edam, Gouder, Zoest, Amsterdam etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by botto
    his mother is dutch, so it shouldn't be a total shocker.
    So is my mother, but if she came over when she was young in the 1950s (about right for someone the OPs age) she probably was not proud of being a 'wog' unable to speak English in the extremely British 1950s Australia. If on the other hand she participates in the strong Dutch community in Australia it's entirely different than living in the Netherlands. It's not all rollmops and droop.


    Quote Originally Posted by botto
    you're kidding right? this has to be the most caually dressed country in europe. i can't tell you how many weddings i've been to where, apart from the groom, i was the only one in a suit. wouter bos - the head of the dutch labor party - never wears a tie, even when he's visiting 10 downing street.
    I agree with you - but compared to Australia it's not casual. Thongs (flip-flops), tanktops, shorts on Kalverstraat wouldn't be the usual attire of a respectable Dutchman - it would be the attire of American tourist.


    Quote Originally Posted by botto
    it may be wet and windy here, but it rarely gets 'bitterly cold'.
    Winter in Perth is 18oC and blue skies. It's in serious drought. Water restrictions have been in place since 2001. 10oC with wind and rain is 'bitterly cold' to a Perth-ite.


    Don't get me wrong, I love Netherlands - it's a great place. It doesn't however suit all people. If you don't understand the importance of 'gezellig' and ensuring you're not 'aso' it may not be for you. What's would make someone 'asociaal' in Netherlands would be acceptable in many parts of Australia.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •