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  1. #1
    '05 NUEser EJ123's Avatar
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    Witnesses to the pentagon crash.

    Im doing some research now on witness reports, for a paper, and I am finding inconsistances with what a lot say.
    For instance:
    One man is like "it veered right before impact"...actually it is claimed to have directly impacted without turning a ways back.
    Another one..."I saw it level with the ground" while another "I saw it head in at a very steep angle downward."
    Yikes.

  2. #2
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ123
    Im doing some research now on witness reports, for a paper, and I am finding inconsistances with what a lot say.
    For instance:
    One man is like "it veered right before impact"...actually it is claimed to have directly impacted without turning a ways back.
    Another one..."I saw it level with the ground" while another "I saw it head in at a very steep angle downward."
    Yikes.
    Eyewitness testimony is often conflicting. I'm not surprised.
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


    . “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche

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  3. #3
    That darn Yankee TexasGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ123
    Im doing some research now on witness reports, for a paper, and I am finding inconsistances with what a lot say.
    For instance:
    One man is like "it veered right before impact"...actually it is claimed to have directly impacted without turning a ways back.
    Another one..."I saw it level with the ground" while another "I saw it head in at a very steep angle downward."
    Yikes.
    Remember when we were talking about The lights seen over Arizona
    Any time you have people telling their version of the story chances are you're going to find multiple versions. The fun part is trying to figure out what part of what they state is true and what part is distorted. Even funnier, chances are the people are not aware of the distortion because that's actually how it played out in their mind.
    Life is about hanging onto what you think is important and finding out what really is important.
    "Stop Ruining my joke!", "No, a joke implies humor attached at no additional cost"
    So many sayings, so little sig space.

  4. #4
    later free_pizza's Avatar
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    make sure you watch "loose change" and all the Michael Moore films before hand, that way you will get the MOST accurate information available.

  5. #5
    Senior Member DannoXYZ's Avatar
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    The video-tape footage is the ultimate witness with no bias. You can also calculate the speed of the plane based upon its position and how much it moved between frames...

  6. #6
    Hazardous Taerom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
    The video-tape footage is the ultimate witness with no bias. You can also calculate the speed of the plane based upon its position and how much it moved between frames...
    Yeah, but the government edited the videos so that we would never know the truth!

  7. #7
    '05 NUEser EJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taerom
    Yeah, but the government edited the videos so that we would never know the truth!
    Hehe

  8. #8
    That darn Yankee TexasGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
    The video-tape footage is the ultimate witness with no bias. You can also calculate the speed of the plane based upon its position and how much it moved between frames...
    Have parts of those been declassified finally?
    Life is about hanging onto what you think is important and finding out what really is important.
    "Stop Ruining my joke!", "No, a joke implies humor attached at no additional cost"
    So many sayings, so little sig space.

  9. #9
    Immoderator KrisPistofferson's Avatar
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    You should post this on PnR so can get the most loopy speculation possible. Seriously, some of those guys are conspiracy scholars.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikeforums
    Your rights end where another poster's feelings begin.

  10. #10
    VFL For Life Velo Vol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe
    Eyewitness testimony is often conflicting. I'm not surprised.
    Yes. Even for day-to-day events, there will be discrepancies in witness testimony. A spectacular event offers the opportunity for spectacular discrepancies.

  11. #11
    VFL For Life Velo Vol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy
    Have parts of those been declassified finally?
    The only thing I've ever seen is the series of still shots from the security camera. I suspect there's more somewhere. But of course, the American public can't handle the truth.

  12. #12
    Unique Vintage Steel cuda2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrisPistofferson
    You should post this on PnR so can get the most loopy speculation possible. Seriously, some of those guys are conspiracy scholars.
    As long as the discussion remains out of the realm of politics this thread can stay. But this is the only warning to keep it civil.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member pedex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ123
    Im doing some research now on witness reports, for a paper, and I am finding inconsistances with what a lot say.
    For instance:
    One man is like "it veered right before impact"...actually it is claimed to have directly impacted without turning a ways back.
    Another one..."I saw it level with the ground" while another "I saw it head in at a very steep angle downward."
    Yikes.

    if you check the ntsb report and the new flight simulation of the data from the flight recorders they released on the net awhile back with the official kean report you find one major issue, the plane most likely did not fly past the north side of the gas station that the kean report says it did, if so, then something is seriously wrong, the lightpoles allegedly knocked down never would have been hit, this is corroborated by testimony of 3 people at the gas station at the time as well as the data from the flight recorders

    the line of sight from the gas station doesnt allow one a view of the impact point unless you walk to the edge of their property and up a small embankment next to the freeway interchange, so nobody there saw the actual impact, just a plane overhead then it disappears, then boom

  14. #14
    That darn Yankee TexasGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velo Vol
    The only thing I've ever seen is the series of still shots from the security camera. I suspect there's more somewhere. But of course, the American public can't handle the truth.
    There are at least 5-7 cameras that had footage. There was a large list of buildings that were raided by the FBI and had cameras pulled because they could and did see everything.
    Life is about hanging onto what you think is important and finding out what really is important.
    "Stop Ruining my joke!", "No, a joke implies humor attached at no additional cost"
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  15. #15
    That darn Yankee TexasGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedex
    if you check the ntsb report and the new flight simulation of the data from the flight recorders they released on the net awhile back with the official kean report you find one major issue, the plane most likely did not fly past the north side of the gas station that the kean report says it did, if so, then something is seriously wrong, the lightpoles allegedly knocked down never would have been hit, this is corroborated by testimony of 3 people at the gas station at the time as well as the data from the flight recorders

    the line of sight from the gas station doesnt allow one a view of the impact point unless you walk to the edge of their property and up a small embankment next to the freeway interchange, so nobody there saw the actual impact, just a plane overhead then it disappears, then boom
    how can something alledgedly be knocked down?
    Life is about hanging onto what you think is important and finding out what really is important.
    "Stop Ruining my joke!", "No, a joke implies humor attached at no additional cost"
    So many sayings, so little sig space.

  16. #16
    Your Sport Sucks I_Suck_At_BMX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by free_pizza
    make sure you watch "loose change" and all the Michael Moore films before hand, that way you will get the MOST accurate information available.
    Loose Change is a crock of S***
    watch the video i believe is called Screw Loose Change, they point out the many many flaws of Loose Change. You should be able to find both on google video.

  17. #17
    Senior Member pedex's Avatar
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    dunno, ask the guys on the kean commission, they put their names on it and published it

    lots of things in that report either omit or dont even consider lots of the testimony given, typical whitewash investigation done mostly for show it appears

    how many people here have actually read the kean report? or even know what it is?

    how many people here followed the hearings and testimony?

    anybody remember the jersey girls and what they did? or know their role?

    just wondering

  18. #18
    Your Sport Sucks I_Suck_At_BMX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedex
    dunno, ask the guys on the kean commission, they put their names on it and published it

    lots of things in that report either omit or dont even consider lots of the testimony given, typical whitewash investigation done mostly for show it appears

    how many people here have actually read the kean report? or even know what it is?

    how many people here followed the hearings and testimony?

    anybody remember the jersey girls and what they did? or know their role?

    just wondering
    A video called Screw Loose Change is made out of the original Loose Change video but it points out all the flaws.

  19. #19
    Senior Member pedex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_Suck_At_BMX
    A video called Screw Loose Change is made out of the original Loose Change video but it points out all the flaws.
    ive seen both, and you havent answered the questions above

    and btw, there's video that points out the flaws in 'screw loose change' too LOL

  20. #20
    That darn Yankee TexasGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedex
    ive seen both, and you havent answered the questions above

    and btw, there's video that points out the flaws in 'screw loose change' too LOL
    so it's suffice to say that both videos are wrong?


    However, regardless of what happened - i think that it's suffice to say that all of the tragedy could have probably been avoided if the passengers and pilots were not complete idiots and did what several brave fellows did on the plane that crashed in PA
    Life is about hanging onto what you think is important and finding out what really is important.
    "Stop Ruining my joke!", "No, a joke implies humor attached at no additional cost"
    So many sayings, so little sig space.

  21. #21
    Your Sport Sucks I_Suck_At_BMX's Avatar
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    It is so easy to create a conspiracy becuase you only state evidence that supports your theory and leave out any info that goes against it, and with a good argument you will get some people to believe you. Also, Scre loose change is doing the exact opposite and only stating facts that conflict with what Loose change is stateing. Youd just have to watch both (which you said you did) and be reasonable and find a inbetween belief. Im sure someone else could create a video ripping apart screw loose change, and someone could make a video ripping apart that one. You just need to take in more than one persons side of a story before you make up you mind.

  22. #22
    Senior Member pedex's Avatar
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IHgFwYeB-Y

    start there, decent background, then ive got a whole bunch of books you can read, start with "the looming tower" by lawrence wright

  23. #23
    That darn Yankee TexasGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_Suck_At_BMX
    It is so easy to create a conspiracy becuase you only state evidence that supports your theory and leave out any info that goes against it, and with a good argument you will get some people to believe you. Also, Scre loose change is doing the exact opposite and only stating facts that conflict with what Loose change is stateing. Youd just have to watch both (which you said you did) and be reasonable and find a inbetween belief. Im sure someone else could create a video ripping apart screw loose change, and someone could make a video ripping apart that one. You just need to take in more than one persons side of a story before you make up you mind.
    Well, considering how many alleged facts are floating around it could be alledged that one could come up with 100 different versions of what happened.
    Life is about hanging onto what you think is important and finding out what really is important.
    "Stop Ruining my joke!", "No, a joke implies humor attached at no additional cost"
    So many sayings, so little sig space.

  24. #24
    later free_pizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_Suck_At_BMX
    Loose Change is a crock of S***
    not sure you caught my sarcasm on that one

  25. #25
    Your Sport Sucks I_Suck_At_BMX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy
    so it's suffice to say that both videos are wrong?


    However, regardless of what happened - i think that it's suffice to say that all of the tragedy could have probably been avoided if the passengers and pilots were not complete idiots and did what several brave fellows did on the plane that crashed in PA
    I'm not going to lie, it is probably pretty to call them idiots.
    I. Typically in a hijacking the people are only held for ransom, not crashed into a building.
    II. Who is to say the passengers knew what the passengers knew or were told. They could have been led on to believe it was for ransom and knew nothing of the other crashes.
    III. Untill your in that situation, you have no right to judge how they reacted.
    IV. You dont know how many terrorist were on the plane and what they were armed with or if there was a struggle or not.
    V. Those "idiots" were fellow americans. Friends and Family. People.
    VI. It also show you are highly inconsiderate and self centered for calling them idiots. They were victims of an attack on us, and will never have another chance. Plus, I'll bet there are people on these boards who are related to them.

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