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Thread: Cheaters!!!

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    Villainous huerro's Avatar
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    Cheaters!!!

    I can't believe it. I just finished grading an end of the semester extra credit assignment and found three people plagiarising. That's three out of about thirty. 10%! on an extra credit assignment!

    Why would you risk an F for the course for a few extra credit points?

    Do they think I don't really read their papers? Do they think I'm too stupid to figure it out? Won't care enough to turn them in?

    I know that lots of kids do lots of dumb things, I've done plenty of dumb things myself, but the payoff on this is so low and the risk is so high.

    Arrgh.
    Last edited by huerro; 05-05-07 at 04:39 PM.

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    Mr. Maximan1 maximan1's Avatar
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    I never cheat

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    Cigar Smokin' Cyclist Travelin' Jack's Avatar
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    If you're intelligent enough to get away with cheating, you probably don't have to cheat in the first place.
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    You Know!? For Kids! jsharr's Avatar
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    If they were plagiarising me, I gave them my permission.
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    Cigar Smokin' Cyclist Travelin' Jack's Avatar
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    I don't believe that the issue schools have with plagiarism has anything to do with infringing on someone's copyright.
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    Jewish Media Conspirator asherlighn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travelin' Jack
    If you're intelligent enough to get away with cheating, you probably don't have to cheat in the first place.
    That only holds true for assignments that take less than two hours to complete. Or atleast that was the rule of thumb when I was in HS.
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    You Know!? For Kids! jsharr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travelin' Jack
    I don't believe that the issue schools have with plagiarism has anything to do with infringing on someone's copyright.
    Oh, in that case, flay the bastards alive and when they are dead, dance about on their graves, shouting hallelujah.
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    Quote Originally Posted by colorider View Post
    Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.

  8. #8
    But on the road more MTBLover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huerro
    Why would you risk an F for the course for a few extra credit points?
    Acutally, and I know some people are probably gonna call me a pr**k for this, but I won't settle for an F in these cases- I go for the X, which is a permanent grade indicating academic dishonesty. It's truly (or should be) a scarlet letter. It often disqualifies you for grad or professional school (you hear that all you pre-meds????) and I can't imagine it helps your job prospects either, given that many employers now want to see your transcript when applying for a position.

    OK- that said, it's only fair that I make a huge deal out of my policy on the very first day of class, and I put it in boldface on every syllabus. Plus, I have students sign an agreement stating that they understand where cheating will lead them (that's not my policy, actually, but the school's, and it's a good one, so no one can come back and say "awwww... I didn't know I could get an X!").

    This crap has got to stop- even with all these precautions and warnings, I still have 1 or 2 cheaters/term, out of 40-50 students. Most of it is plagiarism from web sites. I even had students turn in entire papers taken completely off web sites, where the url and download date/time were plainly printed as the header on each page! Man- that does not a citation make!

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    '05 NUEser EJ123's Avatar
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    I would have them do lots of community service rather than fail them for that.

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    Senior Member Mr. Gear Jammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huerro
    I can't believe it. I just finished grading an end of the semester extra credit assignment and found three people plagiarising. That's three out of about thirty. 10%! on an extra credit assignment!

    Why would you risk an F for the course for a few extra credit points?

    Do they think I don't really read their papers? Do they think I'm too stupid to figure it out? Won't care enough to turn them in?

    I know that lots of kids do lots of dumb things, I've done plenty of dumb things myself, but the payoff on this is so low and the risk is so high.

    Arrgh.
    You are a good teacher for doing that, if they get away with that now they will try to get away with it for ever.
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    Villainous huerro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBLover
    Acutally, and I know some people are probably gonna call me a pr**k for this, but I won't settle for an F in these cases- I go for the X, which is a permanent grade indicating academic dishonesty. It's truly (or should be) a scarlet letter. It often disqualifies you for grad or professional school (you hear that all you pre-meds????) and I can't imagine it helps your job prospects either, given that many employers now want to see your transcript when applying for a position.

    OK- that said, it's only fair that I make a huge deal out of my policy on the very first day of class, and I put it in boldface on every syllabus. Plus, I have students sign an agreement stating that they understand where cheating will lead them (that's not my policy, actually, but the school's, and it's a good one, so no one can come back and say "awwww... I didn't know I could get an X!").

    This crap has got to stop- even with all these precautions and warnings, I still have 1 or 2 cheaters/term, out of 40-50 students. Most of it is plagiarism from web sites. I even had students turn in entire papers taken completely off web sites, where the url and download date/time were plainly printed as the header on each page! Man- that does not a citation make!
    School policy is that they fail the course and get referred to Student Judicial Services. Usually they go on academic probation for a first offense, but that's up to the review board. I don't really have any say so about that.

    I've never had a student leave the URL, but it's always painfully obvious what is thier writing and what is not.

    The truly ridiculous thing is that this is a required Intro to XXX course for non-majors. If they just follow the directions and write something semi-coherent they will get a 70. There's nothing hard about the course or assignments. I at least understand it (don't condone it or accept it, but understand it) for people in Business School, or pre-med courses or really anything that matters.

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    Villainous huerro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsharr
    If they were plagiarising me, I gave them my permission.
    I'm sure they'll appreciate that, but if they didn't cite you (and they didn't) it's still plagiarism.

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    what amazes me more than the cheating is that they think they can get away with it. it's a smack in the face to you to think that you wouldn't notice.

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    The Guadfather Lecterman's Avatar
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    Villainous huerro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lecterman

    So you're saying when I hand back the papers I should have a camera crew present?

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    The Guadfather Lecterman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huerro
    So you're saying when I hand back the papers I should have a camera crew present?
    Absolutely. The host once got stabbed on camera. It could get pretty interesting.

    I say fail them. They took the risk, they should pay the price.
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    unofficial roadie DirtPedalerB's Avatar
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    a part time teacher sits beside me at work she googles suspicious sentences. I'm glad google wasn't around when I was in high school. Nowadays you have to hire someone to do your papers.

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    Trans-Urban Velocommando ax0n's Avatar
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    My mother is an English professor, and she catches losers trying to do this quite often. Listen, I know that Composition I and II aren't the most fascinating classes in the universe, but having the ability to convey whole thoughts clearly in writing is worth more than you could ever imagine.

    For what it's worth, my mom also turns them in. I didn't know there was an "X" grade, but I do know that the ones she's turned in have a note put on their permanent record. It shows up on their transcript on every semester from that one forward.
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    Golden Member JR97's Avatar
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    The funny thing is that when these people get out into the real working world, it is plain as day. I've had 2 or 3 bosses who couldn't write a coherent sentence to save their lives. Yet they had whatever degree that enabled them to be my superior. My last manager was let go for a variety of reasons, but his inability to communicate effectively through email, presentations, etc, ended up being a significant factor.


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    When I taught physic labs, I had two students (lab partners) turn in identical reports. Verbatim, right down to the spelling errors (they had to handwrite the reports, and most didn't know what a printed dictionary was).

    When I was returning graded reports, I called them into the hallway, and gave them their reports. Each had half of the grade of the one report. They biatched and wailed and complained that their HS physics teacher had told them that this was an ok practice (my reponse, "I'm sure she did not."). I told them they could accept the grade, or go with me to see the chairman of the department, let him read the reports, and have him decide what to do. They quickly backed down, since they realized this would result in student judicial court.

    So, why didn't I just take it to the student judicial court? A friend of mine who shared my office had just done the same thing with a student in one of her labs, and, get this, the student judges raked her bawls over the coals, and basically put HER on "trial" instead of the student (who was guilty beyond doubt -- I had seen the work in question), and "acquitted" the cheating student! She was left with a lot of wasted time that cut into her engineering studies, and emotional turmoil (all this crap on top of a nasty divorce she was going through).

    Nip those buggers in th' bud, huerro. I always did my own work. If I was gonna pass, I wanted all the credit. If I was gonna fail, then at least I didn't need help for that!

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    Crawlin' up, flyin' down bikingshearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtPedalerB
    Nowadays you have to hire someone to do your papers.
    Color me strange, but I always thought there was another option: writing my own damn papers.

    If these clods didn't deserve the "F" for the plagiarism, they'd certainly deserve it for stupidity. End of discussion.
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    tired donnamb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBLover
    Acutally, and I know some people are probably gonna call me a pr**k for this, but I won't settle for an F in these cases- I go for the X, which is a permanent grade indicating academic dishonesty. It's truly (or should be) a scarlet letter. It often disqualifies you for grad or professional school (you hear that all you pre-meds????) and I can't imagine it helps your job prospects either, given that many employers now want to see your transcript when applying for a position.
    I wholeheartedly approve of your policy. It's a reflection of how far we've sunk as a culture when you actually have some people thinking badly of you for enforcing an academic honor code. From what little I gleaned while dating a guy with a teenager, it seems like more high schools tolerate this sort of thing than in the past. Do you think that could be the case?
    "Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."

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    Crawlin' up, flyin' down bikingshearer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donnamb
    From what little I gleaned while dating a guy with a teenager, it seems like more high schools tolerate this sort of thing than in the past. Do you think that could be the case?
    Absolutely not. Letting this stuff slide at the high school level is an abdication of responsibility, by the school and by all the parents who insist that their little darlings should not have to face the consequences of their dishonesty.
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    Cheating should be allowed in school because in corporate america if you don't cheat and other do shady things you'll get eaten alive by those that do.
    Moral is fine and all, but really, out in the real world it doesn't exist!
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    I always thought it was funny when the teacher would split the grade. Basically, you plug in this formula:
    Ig = Tg/x
    Where Ig is individual grade, Tg is the total grade of assignment, and x is the number of people who collaborated to produce the exact same assignment. I've seen this applied for up to a group of 4
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