Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Foo Off-Topic chit chat with no general subject.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-05-07, 04:24 PM   #1
huerro
Villainous
Thread Starter
 
huerro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Austin
Bikes: Trek 420, Cyclops
Posts: 1,894
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Cheaters!!!

I can't believe it. I just finished grading an end of the semester extra credit assignment and found three people plagiarising. That's three out of about thirty. 10%! on an extra credit assignment!

Why would you risk an F for the course for a few extra credit points?

Do they think I don't really read their papers? Do they think I'm too stupid to figure it out? Won't care enough to turn them in?

I know that lots of kids do lots of dumb things, I've done plenty of dumb things myself, but the payoff on this is so low and the risk is so high.

Arrgh.

Last edited by huerro; 05-05-07 at 04:39 PM.
huerro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-07, 04:30 PM   #2
maximan1
Mr. Maximan1
 
maximan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Anaheim and Fullerton (SoCal)
Bikes: Puch Superleicht, Nishiki moutain project, Trek 2300 carbon composite
Posts: 1,300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I never cheat
__________________
www.olgapetrovart.com
maximan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-07, 04:53 PM   #3
Travelin' Jack
Cigar Smokin' Cyclist
 
Travelin' Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Springfield, MO
Bikes: Trek 1400, Specialized Stumpjumper, Trek 4300
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If you're intelligent enough to get away with cheating, you probably don't have to cheat in the first place.
__________________
Momentum is my only friend.
Travelin' Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-07, 04:58 PM   #4
jsharr
You Know!? For Kids!
 
jsharr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Just NW of Richardson Bike Mart
Bikes: '05 Trek 1200 / '90 Trek 8000 / '? Falcon Europa
Posts: 6,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
If they were plagiarising me, I gave them my permission.
__________________
Are you a registered member? Why not? Click here to register. It's free and only takes 27 seconds! Help out the forums, abide by our community guidelines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by colorider View Post
Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.
jsharr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-07, 05:00 PM   #5
Travelin' Jack
Cigar Smokin' Cyclist
 
Travelin' Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Springfield, MO
Bikes: Trek 1400, Specialized Stumpjumper, Trek 4300
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't believe that the issue schools have with plagiarism has anything to do with infringing on someone's copyright.
__________________
Momentum is my only friend.
Travelin' Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-07, 05:02 PM   #6
asherlighn
Senior Member
 
asherlighn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Portland ME
Bikes:
Posts: 921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelin' Jack
If you're intelligent enough to get away with cheating, you probably don't have to cheat in the first place.
That only holds true for assignments that take less than two hours to complete. Or atleast that was the rule of thumb when I was in HS.
asherlighn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-07, 05:23 PM   #7
jsharr
You Know!? For Kids!
 
jsharr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Just NW of Richardson Bike Mart
Bikes: '05 Trek 1200 / '90 Trek 8000 / '? Falcon Europa
Posts: 6,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelin' Jack
I don't believe that the issue schools have with plagiarism has anything to do with infringing on someone's copyright.
Oh, in that case, flay the bastards alive and when they are dead, dance about on their graves, shouting hallelujah.
__________________
Are you a registered member? Why not? Click here to register. It's free and only takes 27 seconds! Help out the forums, abide by our community guidelines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by colorider View Post
Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.
jsharr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-07, 05:27 PM   #8
MTBLover
But on the road more
 
MTBLover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes: Bianchi Volpe '07
Posts: 864
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by huerro
Why would you risk an F for the course for a few extra credit points?
Acutally, and I know some people are probably gonna call me a pr**k for this, but I won't settle for an F in these cases- I go for the X, which is a permanent grade indicating academic dishonesty. It's truly (or should be) a scarlet letter. It often disqualifies you for grad or professional school (you hear that all you pre-meds????) and I can't imagine it helps your job prospects either, given that many employers now want to see your transcript when applying for a position.

OK- that said, it's only fair that I make a huge deal out of my policy on the very first day of class, and I put it in boldface on every syllabus. Plus, I have students sign an agreement stating that they understand where cheating will lead them (that's not my policy, actually, but the school's, and it's a good one, so no one can come back and say "awwww... I didn't know I could get an X!").

This crap has got to stop- even with all these precautions and warnings, I still have 1 or 2 cheaters/term, out of 40-50 students. Most of it is plagiarism from web sites. I even had students turn in entire papers taken completely off web sites, where the url and download date/time were plainly printed as the header on each page! Man- that does not a citation make!
MTBLover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-07, 06:10 PM   #9
EJ123
'05 NUEser
 
EJ123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 3,370
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would have them do lots of community service rather than fail them for that.
EJ123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-07, 06:27 PM   #10
Mr. Gear Jammer
Senior Member
 
Mr. Gear Jammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by huerro
I can't believe it. I just finished grading an end of the semester extra credit assignment and found three people plagiarising. That's three out of about thirty. 10%! on an extra credit assignment!

Why would you risk an F for the course for a few extra credit points?

Do they think I don't really read their papers? Do they think I'm too stupid to figure it out? Won't care enough to turn them in?

I know that lots of kids do lots of dumb things, I've done plenty of dumb things myself, but the payoff on this is so low and the risk is so high.

Arrgh.
You are a good teacher for doing that, if they get away with that now they will try to get away with it for ever.
Mr. Gear Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-07, 08:02 PM   #11
huerro
Villainous
Thread Starter
 
huerro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Austin
Bikes: Trek 420, Cyclops
Posts: 1,894
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTBLover
Acutally, and I know some people are probably gonna call me a pr**k for this, but I won't settle for an F in these cases- I go for the X, which is a permanent grade indicating academic dishonesty. It's truly (or should be) a scarlet letter. It often disqualifies you for grad or professional school (you hear that all you pre-meds????) and I can't imagine it helps your job prospects either, given that many employers now want to see your transcript when applying for a position.

OK- that said, it's only fair that I make a huge deal out of my policy on the very first day of class, and I put it in boldface on every syllabus. Plus, I have students sign an agreement stating that they understand where cheating will lead them (that's not my policy, actually, but the school's, and it's a good one, so no one can come back and say "awwww... I didn't know I could get an X!").

This crap has got to stop- even with all these precautions and warnings, I still have 1 or 2 cheaters/term, out of 40-50 students. Most of it is plagiarism from web sites. I even had students turn in entire papers taken completely off web sites, where the url and download date/time were plainly printed as the header on each page! Man- that does not a citation make!
School policy is that they fail the course and get referred to Student Judicial Services. Usually they go on academic probation for a first offense, but that's up to the review board. I don't really have any say so about that.

I've never had a student leave the URL, but it's always painfully obvious what is thier writing and what is not.

The truly ridiculous thing is that this is a required Intro to XXX course for non-majors. If they just follow the directions and write something semi-coherent they will get a 70. There's nothing hard about the course or assignments. I at least understand it (don't condone it or accept it, but understand it) for people in Business School, or pre-med courses or really anything that matters.
huerro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-07, 08:03 PM   #12
huerro
Villainous
Thread Starter
 
huerro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Austin
Bikes: Trek 420, Cyclops
Posts: 1,894
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsharr
If they were plagiarising me, I gave them my permission.
I'm sure they'll appreciate that, but if they didn't cite you (and they didn't) it's still plagiarism.
huerro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-07, 08:04 PM   #13
3MTA3
★ ★ ★
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 2,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
what amazes me more than the cheating is that they think they can get away with it. it's a smack in the face to you to think that you wouldn't notice.
3MTA3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-07, 08:05 PM   #14
Lecterman
The Guadfather
 
Lecterman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Fart Worth
Bikes: Trek, Centurion, Kuwahara coming soon
Posts: 1,090
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Linky
__________________
Are you a registered member? Why not? click here to register. Its free, and only takes 27 seconds!
Help out the forums, abide by our community guidelines.
"Minor bun engine, made Benny Lava!!!"
Lecterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-07, 08:08 PM   #15
huerro
Villainous
Thread Starter
 
huerro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Austin
Bikes: Trek 420, Cyclops
Posts: 1,894
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lecterman

So you're saying when I hand back the papers I should have a camera crew present?
huerro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-07, 08:10 PM   #16
Lecterman
The Guadfather
 
Lecterman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Fart Worth
Bikes: Trek, Centurion, Kuwahara coming soon
Posts: 1,090
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by huerro
So you're saying when I hand back the papers I should have a camera crew present?
Absolutely. The host once got stabbed on camera. It could get pretty interesting.

I say fail them. They took the risk, they should pay the price.
__________________
Are you a registered member? Why not? click here to register. Its free, and only takes 27 seconds!
Help out the forums, abide by our community guidelines.
"Minor bun engine, made Benny Lava!!!"
Lecterman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-07, 10:49 PM   #17
DirtPedalerB
unofficial roadie
 
DirtPedalerB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Out in the woods you see
Bikes: 2004 Marin bobcat trail, 2006 trek fuel ex7, 2007 iron horse road bike
Posts: 1,440
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
a part time teacher sits beside me at work she googles suspicious sentences. I'm glad google wasn't around when I was in high school. Nowadays you have to hire someone to do your papers.
DirtPedalerB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-07, 11:02 PM   #18
ax0n
Trans-Urban Velocommando
 
ax0n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Lenexa, KS
Bikes: 06 Trek 1200 - 98 DB Outlook - 99 DB Sorrento
Posts: 2,400
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My mother is an English professor, and she catches losers trying to do this quite often. Listen, I know that Composition I and II aren't the most fascinating classes in the universe, but having the ability to convey whole thoughts clearly in writing is worth more than you could ever imagine.

For what it's worth, my mom also turns them in. I didn't know there was an "X" grade, but I do know that the ones she's turned in have a note put on their permanent record. It shows up on their transcript on every semester from that one forward.
ax0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-07, 11:35 PM   #19
JR97
Golden Member
 
JR97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Salt Lick City
Bikes:
Posts: 599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The funny thing is that when these people get out into the real working world, it is plain as day. I've had 2 or 3 bosses who couldn't write a coherent sentence to save their lives. Yet they had whatever degree that enabled them to be my superior. My last manager was let go for a variety of reasons, but his inability to communicate effectively through email, presentations, etc, ended up being a significant factor.

JR97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-07, 11:55 PM   #20
VegaVixen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina, USA
Bikes: '71 Raleigh Sports, '84 Schwinn LeTour on the trainer (and available for hill repeats), '06 Scott CR1 SL (Ksyrium SL), and a yet-to-be-determined TT bike.
Posts: 1,643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
When I taught physic labs, I had two students (lab partners) turn in identical reports. Verbatim, right down to the spelling errors (they had to handwrite the reports, and most didn't know what a printed dictionary was).

When I was returning graded reports, I called them into the hallway, and gave them their reports. Each had half of the grade of the one report. They biatched and wailed and complained that their HS physics teacher had told them that this was an ok practice (my reponse, "I'm sure she did not."). I told them they could accept the grade, or go with me to see the chairman of the department, let him read the reports, and have him decide what to do. They quickly backed down, since they realized this would result in student judicial court.

So, why didn't I just take it to the student judicial court? A friend of mine who shared my office had just done the same thing with a student in one of her labs, and, get this, the student judges raked her bawls over the coals, and basically put HER on "trial" instead of the student (who was guilty beyond doubt -- I had seen the work in question), and "acquitted" the cheating student! She was left with a lot of wasted time that cut into her engineering studies, and emotional turmoil (all this crap on top of a nasty divorce she was going through).

Nip those buggers in th' bud, huerro. I always did my own work. If I was gonna pass, I wanted all the credit. If I was gonna fail, then at least I didn't need help for that!
VegaVixen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-07, 01:49 AM   #21
bikingshearer 
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
 
bikingshearer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Bikes: 1967 Paramount, 1982-ish Ron Cooper,1986 De Rosa Professional, 1978 Eisentraut "A," 1961 BianchiCompetizione, 1994 Trek 520, 199? Burley Bossa Nova, early-1970s Cinelli Speciale Corsa
Posts: 3,326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtPedalerB
Nowadays you have to hire someone to do your papers.
Color me strange, but I always thought there was another option: writing my own damn papers.

If these clods didn't deserve the "F" for the plagiarism, they'd certainly deserve it for stupidity. End of discussion.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
bikingshearer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-07, 02:10 AM   #22
donnamb 
tired
 
donnamb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes: Breezer Uptown 8, U frame
Posts: 5,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTBLover
Acutally, and I know some people are probably gonna call me a pr**k for this, but I won't settle for an F in these cases- I go for the X, which is a permanent grade indicating academic dishonesty. It's truly (or should be) a scarlet letter. It often disqualifies you for grad or professional school (you hear that all you pre-meds????) and I can't imagine it helps your job prospects either, given that many employers now want to see your transcript when applying for a position.
I wholeheartedly approve of your policy. It's a reflection of how far we've sunk as a culture when you actually have some people thinking badly of you for enforcing an academic honor code. From what little I gleaned while dating a guy with a teenager, it seems like more high schools tolerate this sort of thing than in the past. Do you think that could be the case?
__________________
"Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."
donnamb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-07, 02:15 AM   #23
bikingshearer 
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
 
bikingshearer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Bikes: 1967 Paramount, 1982-ish Ron Cooper,1986 De Rosa Professional, 1978 Eisentraut "A," 1961 BianchiCompetizione, 1994 Trek 520, 199? Burley Bossa Nova, early-1970s Cinelli Speciale Corsa
Posts: 3,326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by donnamb
From what little I gleaned while dating a guy with a teenager, it seems like more high schools tolerate this sort of thing than in the past. Do you think that could be the case?
Absolutely not. Letting this stuff slide at the high school level is an abdication of responsibility, by the school and by all the parents who insist that their little darlings should not have to face the consequences of their dishonesty.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
bikingshearer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-07, 06:33 AM   #24
pj7
On Sabbatical
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 1,543
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Cheating should be allowed in school because in corporate america if you don't cheat and other do shady things you'll get eaten alive by those that do.
Moral is fine and all, but really, out in the real world it doesn't exist!
pj7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-07, 07:16 AM   #25
phantomcow2
la vache fantôme
 
phantomcow2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NH
Bikes:
Posts: 6,266
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I always thought it was funny when the teacher would split the grade. Basically, you plug in this formula:
Ig = Tg/x
Where Ig is individual grade, Tg is the total grade of assignment, and x is the number of people who collaborated to produce the exact same assignment. I've seen this applied for up to a group of 4
__________________
C://dos
C://dos.run
run.dos.run
phantomcow2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:31 AM.