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Old 05-24-07, 09:14 AM   #1
jschen
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shy and timid and ill prepared

So the plan is to visit Boston on June 23-25 under the cover of "celebrating my birthday" and "visiting my best friend". Both of those will happen, but it's clear to me and to PGS (girl I'm crazy about) that a big reason the trip is happening is to visit her. Otherwise, I'd rather ride Grand Tour with fellow SoCal BikeForums members and ride a birthday ride / recovery ride the day after with them.

My hope is to convince her to date me, but I'm having trouble even getting myself to buy the plane tickets already. I am so shy and timid around girls. I think I'm afraid of girls. That and I'm so ill prepared. I've promised to cook a nice dinner (spinach salad, shrimp, salmon, swordfish, fruit salad) for PGS, but I haven't cooked a meal (besides cooking pasta once in a while) since Nov 2003. I told her I'd take her to F1 Boston and show her the kart racing place I used to frequent, but I don't know how I plan to get there (rent a car?). She told me she'd like to go berry picking, but I have no clue where to go or how to get there or even what berries are in season.

And I'm afraid of when the conversation comes around (implicitly or explicitly) to why I'm flying out 3000 miles for a weekend when I rarely have decent chunks of free time. The real answer is "I like you a lot and I want to talk to you in person about where our friendship is headed" (not necessarily in those words). But I may end up simply saying "I miss F1 Boston" or "I just need to get away for a weekend" or something silly like that. PGS knows I've given up Grand Tour for this, and she knows I don't take missing big rides lightly, but nonetheless I may come up with some dumb reason just because of all the lumps in my throat.

In summary,

big weekend coming up
... lump in throat
... <-- face turning pink from lack of oxygen

shy and timid around girls
... lump in throat
... <-- face turning red from lack of oxygen

ill prepared for trip
... lump in throat
... <--face turning blue from lack of oxygen

*thunk*
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Old 05-24-07, 09:29 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jschen
So the plan is to visit Boston on June 23-25 under the cover of "celebrating my birthday" and "visiting my best friend". Both of those will happen, but it's clear to me and to PGS (girl I'm crazy about) that a big reason the trip is happening is to visit her. Otherwise, I'd rather ride Grand Tour with fellow SoCal BikeForums members and ride a birthday ride / recovery ride the day after with them.

My hope is to convince her to date me, but I'm having trouble even getting myself to buy the plane tickets already. I am so shy and timid around girls. I think I'm afraid of girls. That and I'm so ill prepared. I've promised to cook a nice dinner (spinach salad, shrimp, salmon, swordfish, fruit salad) for PGS, but I haven't cooked a meal (besides cooking pasta once in a while) since Nov 2003. I told her I'd take her to F1 Boston and show her the kart racing place I used to frequent, but I don't know how I plan to get there (rent a car?). She told me she'd like to go berry picking, but I have no clue where to go or how to get there or even what berries are in season.

And I'm afraid of when the conversation comes around (implicitly or explicitly) to why I'm flying out 3000 miles for a weekend when I rarely have decent chunks of free time. The real answer is "I like you a lot and I want to talk to you in person about where our friendship is headed" (not necessarily in those words). But I may end up simply saying "I miss F1 Boston" or "I just need to get away for a weekend" or something silly like that. PGS knows I've given up Grand Tour for this, and she knows I don't take missing big rides lightly, but nonetheless I may come up with some dumb reason just because of all the lumps in my throat.

In summary,

big weekend coming up
... lump in throat
... <-- face turning pink from lack of oxygen

shy and timid around girls
... lump in throat
... <-- face turning red from lack of oxygen

ill prepared for trip
... lump in throat
... <--face turning blue from lack of oxygen

*thunk*

Just say that. Really. Once you say that, the lumps in your throat will go away. Say that 1st, so she knows where the weekend is heading, and don't (for the love of god) wait until you're about to come home to say it.

As a matter of fact...you might want to tell her that BEFORE you even book your flight, so you know what's on her mind before you get there.
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Old 05-24-07, 09:31 AM   #3
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If she's in Boston and you are in Cali, how do you plan to "start" a relationship? Long-distance may work with a relationship on sure footing, but not a brand new one trying to start.
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Old 05-24-07, 09:39 AM   #4
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Be honest. If its meant to be, it will happen.

As far as berries are concerned, strawberries are in season in June. This web site list "Pick Your Own" in Mass. http://www.pickyourown.org/massstraw.htm#listings

Jason...go for it, you won't be sorry.
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Old 05-24-07, 09:44 AM   #5
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Mo, it seems easier to just kidnap her and drag her to San Diego than to manage that.

KT, I know long distance for starting a relationship is a disaster. But I can't help that I am crazy about her. If things look promising, I intend to find a postdoc position in the Boston area after graduating in order to be closer. (Happily, restricting my choices to the Boston area leaves plenty of great opportunities.) I know that's a year away still, but it will be time to start applying for postdoc positions soon, and I would like to know where we stand before making a significant decision in part because of her. And since the task involves my prof calling in lots of favors, I don't want to be applying to positions that I would turn down simply because of geography.
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Old 05-24-07, 09:46 AM   #6
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Old 05-24-07, 09:49 AM   #7
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if she knows you're willing to fly 3000 miles for her, that's a good indication to just how much you like her, i dont think this is going to come as a big surprise when you announce this to her

now, if she lets you come all this way, she likes you too, if she doesnt, she will let you know not to bother flying.
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Old 05-24-07, 09:52 AM   #8
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Hey man, go for it. I did this same thing with an old acquaintance of mine who had moved a 1000 miles away, and ended up marrying the gal. Whatever happens, you won't likely regret it.

Of course, I'm not shy. I am the mac daddy and the daddy mac.
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Old 05-24-07, 09:56 AM   #9
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Girls aren't scary, honestly. Unless you go for the recently parolled types, you'll probably be okay.

But seriously, chicks of all shapes and sizes are just regular people, and there is no reason to be scared of them. Obviously there is no special formula for talking to girls, they are just people you see. Saying whats on your mind is all you need to do. There is nothing to prepare for.
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Old 05-24-07, 10:01 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jschen
If things look promising, I intend to find a postdoc position in the Boston area after graduating in order to be closer.
yay! then after you move we can meet up for a ride and I can steal vivian!!
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Old 05-24-07, 10:05 AM   #11
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It's all about risk vs reward. Some risks are worth taking in life. This is one of them. Enjoy!
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Old 05-24-07, 10:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jschen
So the plan is to visit Boston on June 23-25 under the cover of "celebrating my birthday" and "visiting my best friend". Both of those will happen, but it's clear to me and to PGS (girl I'm crazy about) that a big reason the trip is happening is to visit her.
When you say "plan," is this what you've told her? And is she the "best friend"?
Quote:
I've promised to cook a nice dinner (spinach salad, shrimp, salmon, swordfish, fruit salad) for PGS, but I haven't cooked a meal (besides cooking pasta once in a while) since Nov 2003. I told her I'd take her to F1 Boston and show her the kart racing place I used to frequent, but I don't know how I plan to get there (rent a car?). She told me she'd like to go berry picking, but I have no clue where to go or how to get there or even what berries are in season.
So why don't you go ahead a cook this meal for yourself a few times, or maybe invite over one of your colleagues. Once you've prepared this two or three times, you'll pull it off in Boston like a pro chef.

Yes, dammit. Splurge and rent a car for the weekend. Sometimes you can get a package deal.

If she knows you're coming to visit, and suggested going to pick berries, ask her if there's some place that she has in mind. If not, R-dad has hooked you up with a site. Have a few of those places on the tip of your tongues as suggestions to her, if she doesn't have a favorite spot already.
Quote:
And I'm afraid of when the conversation comes around (implicitly or explicitly) to why I'm flying out 3000 miles for a weekend when I rarely have decent chunks of free time.
Tell her you enjoy her friendship, and want to take advantage of the long weekend to spend some time with her face-to-face. You might also drop that you are considering doing your post-doc work in the Boston area, and felt that you should go back there to visit some old haunts as you mull this over.

Jason, just remember: inhale, exhale. Repeat, but not too quickly. Everything will play out in some fashion. But you'll never know unless you go.

I do agree that you should perhaps discuss this on the phone with her first, unless you're willing to go to Boston anyway, regardless of whether she's truly keen on seeing you while you're there. Only you know the nature of your conversations and emails, and only you can best judge how easy and natural the friendship feels to you. But, ultimately, only she can best tell you how interested she is in pursuing a more intimate relationship built on this friendship.

Good luck! ((Vega hugs))
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Old 05-24-07, 10:25 AM   #13
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jschen, I can feel your pain to some extent as far as the shyness, etc. goes.

It sounds like you are thinking a lot in worst case scenarios--i.e., what can go wrong? If you do go ahead with the trip, then go confident that you will have a good weekend. Have a Plan B in place in case you need to bail, but don't waste a lot of time worrying about it. Ultimately, this doesn't do any good.

In hindsight it probably may not a good idea to talk too big of a game--e.g. making dinner. But if things are otherwise clicking, she won't care if the salad isn't perfect.

A word of caution from someone who has been there: Try not to put all your happiness eggs in PGS's basket. Reflect on all the things you've got going in your life apart from her. Not only is this better for your own outlook, but it might be a turnoff to her if you seem too pushy/anxious.
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Old 05-24-07, 10:44 AM   #14
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jschen, smart guys like us really do have a problem when it comes to women... we THINK TOO MUCH!!! It's time to let the heart and little brain dictate our actions for once. Think of the process you went through to fall for her, it's not an intellectual or thinking one, but rather an emotional feeling one. You can't "think" your feelings. The only way to get through this aching heart is to act on it to its conclusion, you'll be at peace then regardless of how things turn out.

As for the actual approach, I like to start at the big-picture first and work down to the nitty-gritty details of what and how to say it. Here's the guidelines I'm following more closely:

1. be true to yourself, know your values, desires and goals in life
2. truly be in touch with and recognize how you feel, not how you want to feel
3. be authentic and sincere in expressing your feeling to others

You need to get the message across to her of how you feel and what you desire in a way that's most effective towards getting the results you want. This is assuming of course that what you desire is compatible with whatshe wants as well. To effectively say:

"I like you a lot and I want to talk to you in person about where our friendship is headed"

... will require some rehearsal. Not so much in saying the words, but HOW you say them is of utmost importance. Pacing and tone-of-voice, are vitally important, especially on the phone since you can't have the subconscious body-language and gestures to move the communication across. In general, speaking slowly and calmly with clear enunciation is best.

To do that, put yourself in a "calm" state instead of a "needy, pushy/anxious" one. Imagine yourself having spent an entire day with PGS doing ordinary fun things. You went for a bike-ride out in the countryside. Had a picnic lunch. Did some afternoon shopping, got coffee, etc. You're feeling comfortable, at ease with her and yourself. You can imagine spending the rest of your life with this woman, waking up to her face on your pillow, making meals together, etc. The words are flowing smoothly out of your mouth and everything's clicking just right... Now say it from the heart... sincerely...

BTW - right on with VeloVol's last comment too, not good to put all your eggs in one basket, especially in an LDR, but in your case, it's too late. You've fallen for her, so you might as take it as far as it can go. Good luck!

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Old 05-24-07, 11:34 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo'Phat
Just say that. Really. Once you say that, the lumps in your throat will go away. Say that 1st, so she knows where the weekend is heading, and don't (for the love of god) wait until you're about to come home to say it.

As a matter of fact...you might want to tell her that BEFORE you even book your flight, so you know what's on her mind before you get there.
Seconded. I did the same with my best friend years ago. It had to be done. Get it out in the open because until you do that you'll always be wondering and waiting and driving yourself nuts. My friend and I have shared a bestest best friendship that I never imagined possible as a result of getting that out of the way and me moving on because I wanted her friendship more than anything. Not to paint the negative scenario or anything, I hope it goes alright for you. But best to follow that advice.

Just say that.

And +1 to all the other responses.
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Old 05-24-07, 11:35 AM   #16
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p.s. I so so so so so understand how you feel. I know how it's so difficult to agree with all the other advice about approach and somehow not be able to apply it. But whatever you do, just do it. I hideously borked an attempt at meeting someone a few weeks ago and I feel like an azz, but you have to do this ***** or you're never gonna get anywhere, ya know? I'm so happy with myself and with life, even though it's all quite odd right now.
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Old 05-24-07, 11:41 AM   #17
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p.p.s. just a thought - all that stuff about confidence? Basically, it just makes sense that's attractive because the opposite is that you're a pity case, psychlogically. So if you can't somehow find it in yourself to "be cool" as it were, just tell yourself that she most needs to see that whatever however she reacts, you'll be ok with it. Maybe that'll help you. Good luck.

Sorry for the domino posting.
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Old 05-24-07, 12:01 PM   #18
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Listen to Marvin Gaye and Barry White. Then you'll know what to do.
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Old 05-24-07, 12:03 PM   #19
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Listen to Marvin Gaye and Barry White. Then you'll know what to do.
I've been really tryin', baby/tryin' to hold back this feeling for soooo long/and if you feel/like I feel....
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Old 05-24-07, 01:00 PM   #20
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Jason ask her over the phone first because if you get there otherwise when you say this to her at first sight it might make the whole weekend awkward if she isn't interested in you that way.

I think it would be the safest thing to say this to her over the phone and tell her how you feel. If she is still enthused, I would be even more excited about going!!!
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Old 05-24-07, 01:25 PM   #21
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Go for it, Jschen. Don't think about it so much...sometimes its better to let your impulses dictate your actions. I know you're all worked up on the whole planning of it all, and its good to plan things ahead of time. But I think the most fun I've had when going out with a guy I like were always last minute, spontaneous decisions. Its all about how it feels in the moment.

And when that time comes when you know it is right to tell her how you feel, (which hopefully is soon into the trip) your heart will be pounding so fast you think it will explode and you won't be able to breathe and all the thoughts going through your head will tell you to back down because you're afraid of the rejection. Its scary. But you just have to do it. You will feel much better afterward no matter what the outcome. And she will probably feel much better to finally hear you say it. Maybe she's just waiting for the right time to tell you as well.

Like Alfster said, almost everything worthwhile in this life involves taking some kind of risk. You never know what could be until you actually step in there and do it!

Good luck!

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Old 05-24-07, 02:28 PM   #22
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Jschen -

In October 1999 I boarded a plane from DFW to Toronto to meet in person a friend I had made on a books and literature "chat room" on the "world wide web" (this was way before teh internetz) five months prior. It was totally a platonic friendship before that trip.

We've been married for 6 years.

Take that as inspiration or fair warning as you deem appropriate. But know also that the relationship started as a survival-fest of being in different countries and more than 1000 miles apart for more than 2 years. It's really tough, but it's not impossible.

You've got lots of good advice to weigh and mull over. Follow your heart and don't be afraid to take a chance. Good luck!
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Old 05-24-07, 02:33 PM   #23
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Dont forget to not monopolize the weekend with stuff you are doing for her, let her take you berry picking or something.
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Old 05-24-07, 03:19 PM   #24
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Agreed with Danno and others, J! Turn off the thinker and turn on the ticker!
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Old 05-24-07, 03:34 PM   #25
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I have no advice regarding relationship issues, but in general:

Jaz doo eet!

It's better to try, and fail, than to not try at all and wonder forever. And hey, if you succeed, even better!
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