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Old 06-22-07, 07:10 PM   #1
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New mpg standards

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/....ap/index.html
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Old 06-22-07, 07:22 PM   #2
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This legislation is a joke
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Old 06-22-07, 07:45 PM   #3
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Most of the other countries in the world have vehicles that average like 60 mpg, this is a joke.
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Old 06-22-07, 07:47 PM   #4
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The real joke is the counter offers from the car companies. They know how to make true fuel efficient vehicles, and they could be in mass production in less than a year. I swear, those ****ing bastards are in bed with big oil in the worst way.

When they talk about mandating things like a Ford Expedition that gets 70 MPG, or a car like that prototype Lotus SUV thats all electric and gets 350 miles on one charge, then I'll be impressed. Until then, its all a ****ing joke.

Fuel economy will not come from the big car companies, nor will it come from the ****** bags in Washington. It will come from companies over seas, and small private businesses in the US.
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Old 06-22-07, 07:49 PM   #5
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I have a feeling oil will be so expensive anyone not driving a car that gets 60 mpg will either be rich or broke.
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Old 06-22-07, 08:52 PM   #6
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I know my family in France copes with high gas prices. But they all drive diesels, all get 40+mpg, and keep it affordable then. Why is Europe so far ahead?
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Old 06-22-07, 08:58 PM   #7
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Our emissions laws frown on diesels. Too much non co2 emissions.
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Old 06-22-07, 10:03 PM   #8
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The cars in Europe and Asia (the ones driven there, not imported to US) aren't really different technology-wise, they're just typically smaller.

The main reason our corporate average fuel economy is so low is that's where the demand is. What Congress is doing here is forcing the supply away from the demand. What we'll see is more focus on hybrid vehicles and a lot loss focus on selling larger vehicles, which drive down a manufacturer's average. Vehicles which get poor mileage won't disappear, but they'll become more expensive as production decreases and margins necessarily grow.

While I think it's about time for the CAFE standards to rise, I have to say this is a surprisingly large increase.

You can get a good overview on what CAFE is at wikipedia
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Old 06-22-07, 10:08 PM   #9
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haha I thought this was legislation defining MPG formattinghahahaha
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Old 06-22-07, 10:26 PM   #10
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yeah ive seen some of those so thought to be 60 mpg cars i feel a lot safer riding a crotch rocket at 200mph without a helmet
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Old 06-23-07, 01:37 AM   #11
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yeah ive seen some of those so thought to be 60 mpg cars i feel a lot safer riding a crotch rocket at 200mph without a helmet
I get 60 mpg (less than 4l/100km) on the highway in my TDI VW Golf. There is nothing unsafe about my car.
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Old 06-23-07, 02:17 AM   #12
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I have a feeling that car makers rather see cars only belong to the really elite (similar to how cars were before Henry Ford and his assembly line) than come up to the table with mpg standards. I don't blame them, as much as I blame the trend that all investors care about is this financial quarter, and nothing else, where if a company does make some R&D investments, shareholders sue them for not having profits be as good as Q1 was.

It gets old seeing high milage cars styled to look like the same old Scamp, Gremlin, Mazda GLC, or other 1970s crappy subcompact clone. Style-wise, Tesla gets it right for a non-traditional vehicle, but not sure if they will make it.

Look at all the improvements to the internal combustion system made by random people, from making a six-stroke engine to reuse the hot gases, to having pistons share a combustion chamber, to many other improvements. Seeing auto makers come out with the same model, maybe with squarer headlights and +5 hp due to a slight mod on the heads is disappointing.
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Old 06-23-07, 03:50 AM   #13
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haha I thought this was legislation defining MPG formattinghahahaha
Me too. I was looking for some discussion on audio files, not fuel mileage.
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Old 06-23-07, 06:33 AM   #14
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I wanted to get a diesel last time I got a car. Can't get them in NY new, and used is rare.
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Old 06-23-07, 06:40 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by phantomcow2
I know my family in France copes with high gas prices. But they all drive diesels, all get 40+mpg, and keep it affordable then. Why is Europe so far ahead?
because in america mom needs a 36 foot long 11 ton vehicle to drop off little johnny at soccer practice.

in europe you actually need to know how to drive to get a license...here if you can pull off a 3 point turn your in. then we build our cars based on a population of poor drivers.
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Old 06-23-07, 07:13 AM   #16
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because in america mom needs a 36 foot long 11 ton vehicle to drop off little johnny at soccer practice.

in europe you actually need to know how to drive to get a license...here if you can pull off a 3 point turn your in. then we build our cars based on a population of poor drivers.
+1

European driving tests are much more difficult than American. In Europe driving is viewed as a privilege, not a right.
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Old 06-23-07, 07:58 AM   #17
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+1

European driving tests are much more difficult than American. In Europe driving is viewed as a privilege, not a right.

From the driver's ed manual in high school, "Driving is a privilege, not a right."
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Old 06-23-07, 08:11 AM   #18
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From the driver's ed manual in high school, "Driving is a privilege, not a right."
To bad it's not treated that way.

From the Ohio written drivers test.

What do you do when you encounter a railroad crossing?

a) Nothing

b) Stop after the tracks and look

c) Stop on the tracks and look

d) Stop before the tracks and look
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Old 06-23-07, 08:40 AM   #19
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I know all about European Driving tests, my father was born and raised in France. He had to go 3 time to get his license, in a stickshift, with no synchromesh. They apparently made him reverse uphill and downhill around a corner. They would tell you to stop the car midway up the hill, and start it back up. We've got close friends from England who report similar experiences.

I know diesel emissions are frowned upon here. BUt the TDI is am amazing machine, they seem to get no less than 50mpg. I have a hard time believing a VW TDI is polluting more than my neighbors Chevy Avalanche, this must be a well outdated law.
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Old 06-23-07, 08:44 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by mlts22
I have a feeling that car makers rather see cars only belong to the really elite (similar to how cars were before Henry Ford and his assembly line) than come up to the table with mpg standards. I don't blame them, as much as I blame the trend that all investors care about is this financial quarter, and nothing else, where if a company does make some R&D investments, shareholders sue them for not having profits be as good as Q1 was.

It gets old seeing high milage cars styled to look like the same old Scamp, Gremlin, Mazda GLC, or other 1970s crappy subcompact clone. Style-wise, Tesla gets it right for a non-traditional vehicle, but not sure if they will make it.

Look at all the improvements to the internal combustion system made by random people, from making a six-stroke engine to reuse the hot gases, to having pistons share a combustion chamber, to many other improvements. Seeing auto makers come out with the same model, maybe with squarer headlights and +5 hp due to a slight mod on the heads is disappointing.

I think European cars (particularly older VW's) tended to look a bit boxy. But newer cars, particularly Japanese cars, look quite sleek IMO. I believe the Tesla is going to make it. THe owner of paypal contributed something like 27 million to Tesla. And there is no shortage of customers at Tesla motors.
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Old 06-23-07, 09:04 AM   #21
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Must be reached in 13 years....god this is ********.

35mpg is accomplishable as is. For ***'s sake, even the Corvette has many USVs beat out on fuel economy, all while still not being able to reach 30mpg.

That's sad.

Really, I think we need to up the fuel economy ASAP...not over a decade from now....mosre cars need to put out good economy numbers.
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Old 06-23-07, 09:14 AM   #22
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+1

European driving tests are much more difficult than American. In Europe driving is viewed as a privilege, not a right.
Not only that, but there are a **** load of things they don't teach here. For instance, if you were hauling a really big trailer with an auto trans pickup, and went up a big hill, but didn't turn off overdrive, nothing would happen right? Wrong, the tranny will probably start on fire. There is so much they don't teach you about maintainance, and how you should drive in general. And of course European driving classes do stunt driving to teach you how to save yourself in a nasty situation, and that would certainly be good here too.

If you ask me, the basic driving course needs to be an intensive month long course, and not some 16 or 20 hour crap or whatever it is these days.
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Old 06-23-07, 09:17 AM   #23
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Not only that, but there are a **** load of things they don't teach here. For instance, if you were hauling a really big trailer with an auto trans pickup, and went up a big hill, but didn't turn off overdrive, nothing would happen right? Wrong, the tranny will probably start on fire. There is so much they don't teach you about maintainance, and how you should drive in general. And of course European driving classes do stunt driving to teach you how to save yourself in a nasty situation, and that would certainly be good here too.

If you ask me, the basic driving course needs to be an intensive month long course, and not some 16 or 20 hour crap or whatever it is these days.
My drivers ed was 30 hours of classroom over a 5 week period. 10 hours of instructed driving, and 6 hours of watching some other kid drive
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Old 06-23-07, 09:40 AM   #24
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drivers ed here was a joke....best driving skills I learned came from racing classes and stunt driving lessons.
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Old 06-23-07, 09:43 AM   #25
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What I mean by a month long is 40 hours a week, for 4 weeks straight.
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