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Old 07-04-07, 10:10 AM   #1
timmyquest
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Has the internet reached a new stage?

I am only 21 and really don't follow the business world all that much, so consider this a disclaimer and possible explanation that perhaps this has always been common practice and that i am merely noticing things that are closer to home.

In the second half of the 1990's we all witnessed, some made money, many lost money, of the dot-com bubble/boom/bust/cluster****. While some people made millions off of things like Stamps.com (any entourage fans out there? ) many people saw their clever idea's go belly up. Today the internet is still a powerhouse and you can still find just about anything you want (just so long as you aren't trying to do a report on the White House ). Today though, not everyone and their cousin is trying to make money off of some "clever" website startup.

Instead, what i see is the rapid and vast shrinking of the internet. Essentially we have Yahoo, Google, and Microsoft. They seem to be buying up everything that becomes anything which only further enhances their ability to do just that.

I'll give you a small example in my own world.

I use Windows to check my gmail account and if the right information isn't there i search it on google.com.

If i'm bored i go to youtube and watch videos, which google now owns.
If i'm bored i go to musicmatch to listen to music, which was bought out by Yahoo
If i want to share my photography i go to flickr which was recently bought out by yahoo

Google just bought a phone company

the lists are huge and revolve mostly around a small handful of companies

Source: http://www.wtov9.com/money/13535235/detail.html
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One way Yahoo can do this is by moving more swiftly on acquisitions. Instead of wasting energy building homegrown versions of popular Web sites or deliberating for months over potential purchases, Yahoo should reach for the pocketbook when it sees a promising property. Imagine, for example, if Yahoo had pounced on Del.icio.us, a company it ultimately acquired, rather than first trying to build its social bookmarking site, "my web." Instead, Yahoo now has two sites attempting to provide similar services. Yahoo Senior Vice-President Brad Garlinghouse cited several such examples of "competing [or redundant] initiatives" in his lengthy "Peanut Butter Manifesto," a scathing internal memo leaked last November [see BusinessWeek.com, 12/6/06, "Yahoo's Shakeup"].
It seems to me that this next stage is marked by intelligent websites that appeal to people that have grown from the ground up that are being bought out by a few giants. Soon, it seems, that everything i do will be owned by these few giants.

At what point does the advertising you see become advertisement of the own company that you are using. Google is perhaps one of the scariest examples of this. I never really notice the ads when i check my gmail account, but the other day my spanish teacher sent me an email and spanish and all the ads were, in spanish, an regarding the topic in the email.

Its kinda scary...
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Old 07-04-07, 10:30 AM   #2
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I don't even notice ads on websites anymore. I don't see how they sell. That said, I avoid websites with the ads thrown in your face like yahoo and msn.

I also think I like the idea of intelligent advertising and wish TV would get to the same point. Custom advertising for me and what I do based on the website I am on...seems to make a crap load of sense to me.

The internet is to vast to truly shrink, maybe where you visit and what you do is limited to what is popular (just guessing by the sites you named) but there are still lots of indie (jesus on the internet too) companies and websites offering great content without the giants backing them.
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Old 07-04-07, 10:33 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Maelstrom
I don't even notice ads on websites anymore. I don't see how they sell. That said, I avoid websites with the ads thrown in your face like yahoo and msn.

I also think I like the idea of intelligent advertising and wish TV would get to the same point. Custom advertising for me and what I do based on the website I am on...seems to make a crap load of sense to me.

The internet is to vast to truly shrink, maybe where you visit and what you do is limited to what is popular (just guessing by the sites you named) but there are still lots of indie (jesus on the internet too) companies and websites offering great content without the giants backing them.
Well, I run Goofle Ads on my blog and I even get paid for page views, due to the subliminal effect. The ads still register, even on the unconscious level.
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Old 07-04-07, 10:38 AM   #4
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Well, I run Goofle Ads on my blog and I even get paid for page views, due to the subliminal effect. The ads still register, even on the unconscious level.
I doubt it (). I have even paid attention to the ads and i just don't buy anything online. Maybe if all of my purchases were online it might help. And on this site I don't see ads. I can name the handfull of places I shop and none of them would have google ads ...

I am not saying you aren't right but I don't believe it affects me, ads do nothing to sway my shopping habits and in fact usually have the opposite effect. When i see ads, ESPECIALLY when they begin delving into branding and brand loyalty etc...I automatically get repulsed. I hate brand loyalty based on advertising swindlers. So in a way, the advertisting does have an affect, but it sure isnt what the bigwigs want I buy things based on my need and what I like. My loyalties all have basis of a long history and or price. Branding downright creeps me out.
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Old 07-04-07, 10:39 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Maelstrom
I don't even notice ads on websites anymore. I don't see how they sell. That said, I avoid websites with the ads thrown in your face like yahoo and msn.

I also think I like the idea of intelligent advertising and wish TV would get to the same point.
Custom advertising for me and what I do based on the website I am on...seems to make a crap load of sense to me.

The internet is to vast to truly shrink, maybe where you visit and what you do is limited to what is popular (just guessing by the sites you named) but there are still lots of indie (jesus on the internet too) companies and websites offering great content without the giants backing them.
You think TV adds are random?
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Old 07-04-07, 10:40 AM   #6
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Wait, the internet has advertising? Huh. I know it used to, and it was mid-bogglingly stupid and irritating as all hell, but I thought most of it went away quite some time ago, leaving a much more bearable, useful internet.

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Old 07-04-07, 10:42 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by x136
Wait, the internet has advertising? Huh. I know it used to, and it was mid-bogglingly stupid and irritating as all hell, but I thought most of it went away quite some time ago, leaving a much more bearable, useful internet.

It's not just advertisement, it's what the internet itself is. It use to be...a connected web of different people and businesses, and it seems that the different people and businesses is becoming person and business
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Old 07-04-07, 10:43 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by timmyquest
You think TV adds are random?
No, they are area specific and time slot specific. But there is some randomness thrown in when I and if I happen to be watching TV mid afternoon for example. Its specific based on educated guessing. Still not specific to me. Internet brings that to the next level.
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Old 07-04-07, 10:45 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by timmyquest
It's not just advertisement, it's what the internet itself is. It use to be...a connected web of different people and businesses, and it seems that the different people and businesses is becoming person and business
Its still that way. Like I said, the sites you listed are the popular a-listing. There are still spots to go hide if you just want a collection of unique sites and people.

Not saying you are wrong, the internet, as business takes more of the web over, will become an big c-section of corporate. But I don't believe it will eliminate the littles guys. It will fuel more variations of creative little guys. There will ALWAYS be something new.
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Old 07-04-07, 10:52 AM   #10
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Its a common trait in business methinks.. Diversification and growth spurts eventually lead to consolidation when things turn south.. In other words, the big companies with more cizzash invest and buy little ones for cheap when they struggle to stay afloat in harder times..

But the youtube/flickr thing is actually kind of a coldwar between google and yahoo as they both are trying to maintain their appeal and coolness factor.. I think they are taking a multi prong approach to the problem thats all..
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Old 07-04-07, 10:55 AM   #11
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It's not just advertisement, it's what the internet itself is. It use to be...a connected web of different people and businesses, and it seems that the different people and businesses is becoming person and business
Yeah, I often feel the same way. I'm getting a bit tired of "Google has purchased...", "Yahoo has purchased..." and "Apple has purchased..." headlines.

It's much like the real business world. Look at the automobile industry. With a handful of exceptions (Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Porsche, and a few others), every car company is owned either fully or in part by GM, Ford, DaimlerChrysler, Volkswagen-Audi, etc.

Fortunately, unlike the automobile industry, some industries still offer a lot of room for the little guy and the third party. Bicycles are actually an excellent example (look at all the small companies and one-man operations out there co-existing with the Treks, Cannondales, and Specializeds). The internet is so wide and deep that you can find different, interesting, independent stuff if you look, or you can use the big, upfront stuff offered by the 800-pound gorillas.
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Old 07-04-07, 10:57 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Maelstrom
No, they are area specific and time slot specific. But there is some randomness thrown in when I and if I happen to be watching TV mid afternoon for example. Its specific based on educated guessing. Still not specific to me. Internet brings that to the next level.
Advertisers also target the type of audience that is likely to watch a certain show/channel. If you're watching ESPN, you're unlikely to see a commercial for barbies.
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Old 07-04-07, 11:00 AM   #13
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Advertisers also target the type of audience that is likely to watch a certain show/channel. If you're watching ESPN, you're unlikely to see a commercial for barbies.
Sorry I should have put an "etc" at the end.
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Old 07-04-07, 11:00 AM   #14
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Yeah, I often feel the same way. I'm getting a bit tired of "Google has purchased...", "Yahoo has purchased..." and "Apple has purchased..." headlines.

It's much like the real business world. Look at the automobile industry. With a handful of exceptions (Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Porsche, and a few others), every car company is owned either fully or in part by GM, Ford, DaimlerChrysler, Volkswagen-Audi, etc.

Fortunately, unlike the automobile industry, some industries still offer a lot of room for the little guy and the third party. Bicycles are actually an excellent example (look at all the small companies and one-man operations out there co-existing with the Treks, Cannondales, and Specializeds). The internet is so wide and deep that you can find different, interesting, independent stuff if you look, or you can use the big, upfront stuff offered by the 800-pound gorillas.

The thing is, it seems to just be starting. What is it going to be in 5 years?
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Old 07-04-07, 11:04 AM   #15
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Things could continue on the current path, with the Big Guys getting bigger, buying up more stuff (and calling it innovation on their parts), with more little guys filling the gaps. Or things could change entirely. Five years is a long time in internet time.
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Old 07-04-07, 11:08 AM   #16
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Also, the advertising on TV today has already driven me away from the medium entirely. But if it hadn't, and the networks started going through my trash, watching me through the window, and otherwise stalking me to try to determine what advertising would be most likely to be successful in brainwashing me, I'd be done. There is no way such a thing could be seen as good.
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Old 07-04-07, 11:20 AM   #17
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It's much like the real business world. Look at the automobile industry. With a handful of exceptions (Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Porsche, and a few others), every car company is owned either fully or in part by GM, Ford, DaimlerChrysler, Volkswagen-Audi, etc.
Competition in this industry is really fierce though. And all the main companies are too big to be bought out, so I don't see a problem.
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Old 07-04-07, 11:20 AM   #18
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There is a cycle to everything - we are just leaving (in my opinion) the microchip revolution. They say it started in 1959 - believe it or not the microchip has been around that long. Most major forces like the microchip take 50 years to reach the point that there is very little new and consolidation occurs.

The Internet aged rapidly and now it is becoming more mature. In the 90s, no one knew the direction but now, it has gained momentum and it is highly unlikely that it will go off in a totally unexpected direction.

just my dos colones from your third world economic commentator.
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Old 07-04-07, 12:00 PM   #19
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The ultimate evolution of pure capitalism is a monopoly. That's why we have antitrust laws. I'm not sure if the big players on the internet are getting so large that they stifle competition and innovation.... yet...
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Old 07-04-07, 12:06 PM   #20
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Here's something scary. I work for a government contractor. One of our clients uses the ID photos of their employees and contractors to search the internet for matching images. They want to see if the employees are posting to porn, gambling, or other such sites that could put them into compromising positions. They also discover employees with other part time jobs which the employees didn't disclose them. They showed me instances where an employee sold cars at a dealership evenings and weekends and another who did floral arrangments for weddings. Both employees were placed on administartive leave without pay.
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Old 07-04-07, 12:09 PM   #21
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Here's something scary. I work for a government contractor. One of our clients uses the ID photos of their employees and contractors to search the internet for matching images. They want to see if the employees are posting to porn, gambling, or other such sites that could put them into compromising positions. They also discover employees with other part time jobs which the employees didn't disclose them. They showed me instances where an employee sold cars at a dealership evenings and weekends and another who did floral arrangments for weddings. Both employees were placed on administartive leave without pay.
Facebook anyone?
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Old 07-04-07, 12:16 PM   #22
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They want to see if the employees are posting to porn, gambling, or other such sites that could put them into compromising positions. They also discover employees with other part time jobs which the employees didn't disclose them. They showed me instances where an employee sold cars at a dealership evenings and weekends and another who did floral arrangments for weddings. Both employees were placed on administartive leave without pay.
It's nice that they think that's any of their business whatsoever.
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Old 07-04-07, 12:51 PM   #23
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There is a cycle to everything - we are just leaving (in my opinion) the microchip revolution. They say it started in 1959 - believe it or not the microchip has been around that long. Most major forces like the microchip take 50 years to reach the point that there is very little new and consolidation occurs.

The Internet aged rapidly and now it is becoming more mature. In the 90s, no one knew the direction but now, it has gained momentum and it is highly unlikely that it will go off in a totally unexpected direction.

just my dos colones from your third world economic commentator.
As someone who works in that industry, I gotta agree with you about consolidation, although they are going to stay for a while yet..
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Old 07-04-07, 01:12 PM   #24
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It's not an internet thing. The same is happening in business generally. It's the culmination of the creep of corporate power and emaciation of consumer and peoples' rights over the last few decades. Governments are in thrall to the power of almighty big business and have no appreciation of the importance of curtailing steroidal corporate power.
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Old 07-04-07, 05:47 PM   #25
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The only thing that has made hte internet "shrink" is asshats polluting the internet with bogus websites and other tomfoolery (like when you mistype a site and get some other stupid site that just has google search links and installs malware on your computer).

Stuff like that discourage people from surfing the web, and thus makes it shrink, since there is now a massive rift bwteen the hit frequency of the top sites and the median sites.

Yes, the internet is a great tool to make money, but domain squatting, exploiting how various search engine rank the pages, and other such things have lead to many tools being useless (I actually found that messageboards are better for web searching than google or yahoo in many cases thanks to this practice....that's just pathetic).

I do think it was the commercialization that spelled this out...when everyone is screaming at the top of their lungs about what they have or could have to offer, many times you can't hear the gentlemanly scholar that is right next to you (the one that actually knows what he is talking about, unlike the rest of the loudmouths).

I remember back when a search engine gave you exactly what you wanted int eh first 3 hits....now you have to use quotes "like this" to get any decent hits, and even then other things that don't meet the search criteria are putting the first real hit on page 2 or 3 now.

I sound like an old grouch, but I do remember when the internet was a good information resource, and not just the spam-fest it is now.
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