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  1. #1
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    Underage Drinking

    Your thoughts?

    I think that the age limit in the US is bull. By prohibiting it, teens want to do it. Same thing with smoking.

    European countries fair perfectly fine without age limits on drinking. What makes US politicians believe that we're incapable of handling alcohol? Of course, there will always be someone who gets killed due to doing something stupid and alcohol related. But I don't believe that those people should call for laws. It'll still happen with the laws in place.

    Ridiculous, I say.



    EDIT- I don't smoke!
    Last edited by SmoothRide; 07-29-07 at 02:01 PM.

  2. #2
    Blasted Weeds Tude's Avatar
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    way past your bedtime

  3. #3
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    Point taken. Yet, I can't sleep.

    I have insomnia. But why are you up? Another fellow insomniac?

    Probably about to either get on my trainer or go for a bike ride....

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    Feral Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Focus on age limits and bans and taxes and all that crap is the wrong idea.

    From the perspective of almost every of country on the planet, age limits of 21 are absolutely ridiculous. The problem is the culture, not the petty laws that try to control it.
    Quote Originally Posted by KrisPistofferson View Post
    Did you just say "minarchist?" I'm going to start a 10-page vaginathon because only Libertarians can define Libertarianism. Also, you're mean.

  5. #5
    I can't find my pants mirona's Avatar
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    I heart beer.

  6. #6
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    We call it Wheat Soda.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Bantam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirona View Post
    I heart beer.
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  8. #8
    Third World Layabout crtreedude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Focus on age limits and bans and taxes and all that crap is the wrong idea.

    From the perspective of almost every of country on the planet, age limits of 21 are absolutely ridiculous. The problem is the culture, not the petty laws that try to control it.
    Correct - most of my European friends know how to drink - i.e. not for the purpose of getting smashed. It is just a part of life. Having one or two glasses of wine with dinner or a beer after mowing the grass - cool, just a beverage with the additional benefit of relaxing you.

    Compare that to our custom of introducing a new drink to beer with a keg...

  9. #9
    Third World Layabout crtreedude's Avatar
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    Oh, bluntly put - if you actually want to smoke after what we know about it - you aren't mature enough to handle anything that will intoxicate you. "Let me put this hazardous material in my mouth which will rot my lungs and almost certainly addict me which will cause many people to avoid me like the plaque (due to alergies and the stench) just so I can look cool."

    The very fact that there is underage smoking might be a reason why adults think they need to make laws about other substances. Tell me - what motivation is there for wanting to start smoking? Who doesn't know what it will do to you and how many people around them after a few years are desperately trying to stop?

    Honest - I just don't get it. I would much prefer someone to walk by with a joint than a cigarette. The former actually makes some sense.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Michigander's Avatar
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    I know a guy with almost no liver since he smashed the hell out of it while he was young. I agree though, drinking ages are petty bull$%*t. If a kid can go and subject himself to McDonalds "food" without restriction, it's hard to see a reason against booze.

    Around here, it's forbidden fruit basically. When I was in High School, people would bring whiskey to school in pop bottles, and pass it out at lunch. In a different culture where alcohol isn't so taboo, I would doubt that such stupid things would be as common.
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    Is good.

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    Senior Member ryder47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothRide View Post
    Your thoughts?

    I think that the age limit in the US is bull. By prohibiting it, teens want to do it. Same thing with smoking.
    Sure some teens are allured by the forbidden fruit, however lowering the age limit will only add to the number of drinking teens as those currently drinking will continue to do so and those who want to experiment now will, openly and legally. As for comparing smoking and drinking, a teens smoking habit has a snowballs chance in h*** of killing me, his drinking habit however . . .

    Highway statistics over the last 30 years support the passage of a national drinking age, the reason it was raised in the first place. MADD is the orginization responsible for putting this issue on the front burner back in the late 70's and early 80's. The three extra years seems like an enternity however on the ledger sheet is a small price to pay for the lives saved.

  13. #13
    la vache fantôme phantomcow2's Avatar
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    We teach people from a young age "DO NOT DRINK UNTIL YOU ARE 21", and that's it. Naturally, people don't learn HOW to drink. They'll just buy their bud and go at it. I saw this every day in high school. Wine is in my heritage, my father is French. I've been given wine since I was probably 10 or 12. But, I now have no desire to get drunk. I think I know how to drink, and I thank my parents for that.
    The key is education. Having the drinking age what it is, though impossible to enforce, isn't awful. It's that you need to educate underage people about it, and don't cast alcohol in a negative light.
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  14. #14
    Wood Licker Maelstrom's Avatar
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    Its stupid.

  15. #15
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantomcow2 View Post
    We teach people from a young age "DO NOT DRINK UNTIL YOU ARE 21", and that's it. Naturally, people don't learn HOW to drink. They'll just buy their bud and go at it. I saw this every day in high school. Wine is in my heritage, my father is French. I've been given wine since I was probably 10 or 12. But, I now have no desire to get drunk. I think I know how to drink, and I thank my parents for that.
    The key is education. Having the drinking age what it is, though impossible to enforce, isn't awful. It's that you need to educate underage people about it, and don't cast alcohol in a negative light.
    One of the reasons the US is so conservative about alcohol is because we have a dependable water supply that's pretty uniformly safe, believe it or not. We weren't forced to add alcohol to it to prevent parasitic and waterborn illness.

    In the 1600's, the average beer intake among the Pilgrims was a gallon a day, regardless of age group and sailors made grog by mixing rum in the water because the barrel stored water got foul with algae growth. Wine was used in France historically as a water substitute or additive for similar reasons, medieval water supplies weren't necessarily the cleanest or most dependable.
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


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  16. #16
    Feral Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    "The dipsomaniac and the abstainer make the same mistake: they both regard wine as a drug and not a drink."
    - G.K. Chesterton.
    Quote Originally Posted by KrisPistofferson View Post
    Did you just say "minarchist?" I'm going to start a 10-page vaginathon because only Libertarians can define Libertarianism. Also, you're mean.

  17. #17
    Feral Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crtreedude View Post
    Oh, bluntly put - if you actually want to smoke after what we know about it - you aren't mature enough to handle anything that will intoxicate you. "Let me put this hazardous material in my mouth which will rot my lungs and almost certainly addict me which will cause many people to avoid me like the plaque (due to alergies and the stench) just so I can look cool."

    The very fact that there is underage smoking might be a reason why adults think they need to make laws about other substances. Tell me - what motivation is there for wanting to start smoking? Who doesn't know what it will do to you and how many people around them after a few years are desperately trying to stop?

    Honest - I just don't get it. I would much prefer someone to walk by with a joint than a cigarette. The former actually makes some sense.
    I never smoked to look cool. That's an exercise in futility.

    It's a common thing to say about the reason young people do it - to look cool. I think it's patronizing. If anything it would be peer pressure, the forbidden fruit syndrome, and an urge to be "grown up".

    I saw some kid walk by the other day, must have been 12, lighting up a ***. Sad.

    But this, drinking, the neurotic fetishization of sexuality (I mean WOW, violence and bad language galore, but as much as a nipple appears and a movie's rated 18 - talk about schizo), all that stuff - it's just a relfection of the lack of social cohesion of modern society, combined with the cult of individualism that puts blocks on enforcement of social norms. And it's also simply a reflection of the example we as adults set. It's so easy and fun to blame kids for their stupidity, but all they're doing is responding to the environment that we created for them.

    As for putting hazardous materials in one's mouth, you seem to have an exaggerated beef with smoking as opposed to the myriad other silly things we choose to do to ourselves. But, I agree with you that it does at least make sense to see someone walking down the street with a J than a ciggie.

    The problem with attitudes to drinking is just as bad in England imho. What a world of difference when you cross over to the mainland.
    Last edited by Nicodemus; 07-29-07 at 10:05 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by KrisPistofferson View Post
    Did you just say "minarchist?" I'm going to start a 10-page vaginathon because only Libertarians can define Libertarianism. Also, you're mean.

  18. #18
    Chairman of the Bored catatonic's Avatar
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    Yep the drinking is just because it makes no sense.

    You can operate a car by then, at 17 (with parental consent) you can go to war and die.....but you can't have a beer? It's just absurd, and when has anyone ever followed an absurd law by choice?

    Now, the problem with teens ODing on alcohol is due to the illegality....since it's hard to get, when teens get hold of it, they use it all, before someone has a chance to find it and take it away.

    I think a graudated system would work best....beer/wine at 18, hard liquor at 21. Some sates apprently have laws like that in place, but I think it should be a national thing.
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  19. #19
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    After I turned 21, I stopped drinking a lot less and buying a lot more (for other people)
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  20. #20
    tired donnamb's Avatar
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    I liked the way the drinking age was handled in Germany when I went there in high school. Beer and wine at 16 and hard liquor at 18. Thing is, it wasn't as simple as that. If a parent ordered a small glass of beer or wine for a 13 year old when the family went out to dinner, the server brought it without question. Likewise, if a 16 year old wanted a second beer and a parent wasn't around, they server wouldn't hesitate to ask the kid something like, "Aren't you too young for that much beer? You shouldn't have a second one if you're not eating dinner. What would your parents say?" The kid would back down and there would be no more beer.

    This system works because parents are heavily involved with the "alcohol education" of their children. It also relies on non-related adults to involve themselves with the alcohol choices of young people, and the teenagers accepting the authority of those adults. Right now in North America, you've got a whole population of parents and other adults who are, IMO, unprepared to take that kind of role on. So, how do you get the adults ready to handle that kind of responsibility?

    Oh, and there was one other huge difference that I observed: young people between 16 and 18 were not driving cars.
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  21. #21
    The Site Administrator: Currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes,please contact my assistnt admins for forum issues Tom Stormcrowe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catatonic View Post
    Yep the drinking is just because it makes no sense.

    You can operate a car by then, at 17 (with parental consent) you can go to war and die.....but you can't have a beer? It's just absurd, and when has anyone ever followed an absurd law by choice?

    Now, the problem with teens ODing on alcohol is due to the illegality....since it's hard to get, when teens get hold of it, they use it all, before someone has a chance to find it and take it away.

    I think a graudated system would work best....beer/wine at 18, hard liquor at 21. Some sates apprently have laws like that in place, but I think it should be a national thing.
    Actually, some states HAD laws like that, but had to adopt the 21 standard or lose Federal Highway Funding.
    on light duty due to illness; please contact my assistants for forum issues. They are Siu Blue Wind, or CbadRider or the other 3 star folk. I am currently at home recovering from a couple of strokes. I am making good progress, happily.


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  22. #22
    Member michiganboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryder47 View Post
    Sure some teens are allured by the forbidden fruit, however lowering the age limit will only add to the number of drinking teens as those currently drinking will continue to do so and those who want to experiment now will, openly and legally. As for comparing smoking and drinking, a teens smoking habit has a snowballs chance in h*** of killing me, his drinking habit however . . .

    Highway statistics over the last 30 years support the passage of a national drinking age, the reason it was raised in the first place. MADD is the orginization responsible for putting this issue on the front burner back in the late 70's and early 80's. The three extra years seems like an enternity however on the ledger sheet is a small price to pay for the lives saved.
    How many 18 year olds wait until they are 21 to drink? I sure didn't and I doubt they do now. Check out any college campus and you will see what I mean. If MADD really wants to eliminate drunk driving they should differentiate between drinking and drinking and driving. The best way to do this is to lower penalties for underage drinking and increase penalties for drinking and driving.

  23. #23
    ♋ ☮♂ ☭ ☯ -=(8)=-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Focus on age limits and bans and taxes and all that crap is the wrong idea.

    From the perspective of almost every of country on the planet, age limits of 21 are absolutely ridiculous. The problem is the culture, not the petty laws that try to control it.

    Im only against it because an 18 year olds brain is still physically forming.
    Alcohol can disrupt the process. Do we really need more republiklans ?
    But, that being said, there is no American 18 year old mature enuff to drink.
    Sorry. Not one. It is a culture thing. American youth are subliminally trained
    starting at birth to associate ridiculously stoopid, alcohol fueled behaviour
    with a good time. I was a product of Americas 'Mature Drinking' experiment
    that happened in the 70's. 'Learning' to drink from your parents (most likely
    alky's, too) was the norm. I wrecked a car at 16, lost all my front toofus's
    and broke all my ribs, damaged my heart and fractured my skull. Other friends
    who were part of the 70's experience didnt get off as easily. Thier funerals
    never got easier. Here, in rich, bourgeous West Palm Beach, the rich people
    always have keggers on thier private estates for thier little Chad, Biffs and Buffies.
    Later that evening they are ID'ing splattered guts on Rt.1.
    Sorry, America as a whole isnt competent enuff to be training our kidlettes
    proper alcohol technique.
    Last edited by -=(8)=-; 07-29-07 at 02:25 PM.

  24. #24
    J E R S E Y S B E S T Jerseysbest's Avatar
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    Beer
    Quote Originally Posted by SingingSabre View Post
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by crtreedude View Post
    Oh, bluntly put - if you actually want to smoke after what we know about it - you aren't mature enough to handle anything that will intoxicate you. "Let me put this hazardous material in my mouth which will rot my lungs and almost certainly addict me which will cause many people to avoid me like the plaque (due to alergies and the stench) just so I can look cool."

    The very fact that there is underage smoking might be a reason why adults think they need to make laws about other substances. Tell me - what motivation is there for wanting to start smoking? Who doesn't know what it will do to you and how many people around them after a few years are desperately trying to stop?

    Honest - I just don't get it. I would much prefer someone to walk by with a joint than a cigarette. The former actually makes some sense.
    I don't smoke. =/

    Drinking, you can moderate. With smoking- Lungs messed up.


    What about sex without protection? Shouldn't that be illegal? What happens when someone gets HIV?

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