Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Foo Off-Topic chit chat with no general subject.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-14-07, 07:44 AM   #1
* jack *
|+|+|+|+|+|+|
Thread Starter
 
* jack *'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Durham, NC
Bikes: more, please.
Posts: 1,514
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
need legal advice, re: extortion

Hi Foosters, maybe some of you can advise me on a situation that I am currently involved in.

I had property stolen from me and filed a police report.
I placed a flier around town, offering a reward for information.
Within a few days, I identified the thief and verified that the property was in his possession.

With the assistance of a police officer, and without pressing charges, I secured the return of this property with the exchange of money.

What makes this odd is that I had to barter with the thief himself, who was considering this his 'reward' for returning it.
The police officer was the mediator in this deal.

Although there was no implicit threat, ie: "pay up or else" - I felt that this was the quickest and easiest way to get my property back at the time.
Now that I have had a few days to think about it, I am considering pressing charges against the thief for larceny and extortion.
Do I have a case, or did I screw myself by paying up?
__________________
* jack * is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 07:49 AM   #2
Kestrelman
Senior Member
 
Kestrelman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wha???? Oh - you live in Durham, where this is normal. Never mind.
Kestrelman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 07:59 AM   #3
crdean1
Senior Member
 
crdean1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Texas
Bikes: '06 Litespeed Siena
Posts: 402
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yes you have a case. The police officer should be disciplined as well for 'bartering' an agreement. Consult a detective to press charges, if that fails, try a low cost attorney. This is not a complicated case from the way you make it sound. I don't know that you would get him for extortion, but you would get him arrested for theft if there is any evidence.
crdean1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 08:01 AM   #4
Siu Blue Wind
Flowers for mom
 
Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 11,020
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 161 Post(s)
It's too late now. Once you paid him, it was an agreement to exchange money for the property. Perhaps it was just the point of getting your stuff back right away but if you had identified the thief and the fact that he had your possessions, I would have let the police deal with it. I would have never agreed to "pay" for the return of your stuff but then again I wasn't feeling your angst at the time, either.

Consider it a lesson learned and let's hope that word doesn't get around how kind you are so you don't become a victim again. Good luck.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddha
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by making View Post
Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.

Last edited by Siu Blue Wind; 08-14-07 at 10:55 AM.
Siu Blue Wind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 08:07 AM   #5
erraticrider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Washington, D.C.
Bikes: Cannondale, trek
Posts: 4,516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
He sold you stolen goods. You should be able to sue him and get your money back. The police officer should be disciplined (i.e., once the property was identified as yours, the "finder" had not right to retain the property and commited a crime by trying to sell it to you).
__________________
"yes, they [investors, government, lobbyists] are all necessary, but they all need some rules and limitations as well."

Mr. Markets, 6/27/09 7:07 pm
erraticrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 08:10 AM   #6
georgiaboy
Retro-nerd
 
georgiaboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Morningside - Atlanta
Bikes: 1991 Serotta Colorado II, 1986 Vitus 979, 1971 Juene Classic, 2008 Surly Crosscheck, 1949 Riva Sport
Posts: 1,583
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think you could have a case. There could be no exhortion unless you loss something i.e. giving the guy money for your property. Extortion could be especially proven if the property was worth well more that the money that changed hands.

Once the theif was made aware that you knew his identity he would be motivated to unload your propery thus never seeing it again. The actions you took secured your property.

The Police Officer lives in the real world and knows that life is not as easy as right and wrong. Persons do not always receive justice in a court of law. If your intent was to get your property back then job done.
__________________
Would you like a dream with that?

Last edited by georgiaboy; 08-14-07 at 08:18 AM.
georgiaboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 08:19 AM   #7
Krink
-
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You can not "agree" to extortion. An illegal deal has no legal protection.

The cop may have been on the take.

Durham? It's Chinatown, Jack.

Last edited by Krink; 08-14-07 at 08:44 AM.
Krink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 08:30 AM   #8
* jack *
|+|+|+|+|+|+|
Thread Starter
 
* jack *'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Durham, NC
Bikes: more, please.
Posts: 1,514
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was worried about the cop, which was why I went through with the shady deal.
I just wanted my property back, and thought that this was the way to do it, despite my ethical reservations.
Police officers do not 'advise', but they certainly can 'persuade'...

It was only this morning that I went to HQ and got a copy of the report.
I got verification from the 'investigator's notes' that it was the thief who got the money, not the cop.

There was even a 'receipt' believe it or not... and yeah, this form of "Durham justice" certainly leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
__________________
* jack * is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 08:41 AM   #9
Kestrelman
Senior Member
 
Kestrelman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by * jack * View Post
I was worried about the cop, which was why I went through with the shady deal.
I just wanted my property back, and thought that this was the way to do it, despite my ethical reservations.
Police officers do not 'advise', but they certainly can 'persuade'...

It was only this morning that I went to HQ and got a copy of the report.
I got verification from the 'investigator's notes' that it was the thief who got the money, not the cop.

There was even a 'receipt' believe it or not... and yeah, this form of "Durham justice" certainly leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Ha ha - At least you don't have Mike Nifong involved .

But seriously - this sounds pretty dodgy even by Durham standards. Was it a lot of money? Are we talking grand or petty larceny? Have you talked to an attorney? I wouldn't talk to the cops anymore - they're gonna stonewall you.
Kestrelman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 08:47 AM   #10
* jack *
|+|+|+|+|+|+|
Thread Starter
 
* jack *'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Durham, NC
Bikes: more, please.
Posts: 1,514
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The property is valued b/w $1000 and $1500.
I paid less than 10% for its return.

I have spoken with an ex-attorney who said I need to weigh my options.
At the very least, I could press charges and see where it goes.
It might not make it to court and the charges might not stick, but maybe I can get the scumbag in cuffs for an afternoon.
__________________
* jack * is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 08:51 AM   #11
Krink
-
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Maybe you can write it off on your NC state income taxes. Get the receipt.
Krink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 09:05 AM   #12
Stacey
Non Tribuo Anus Rodentum and off to the next adventure (RIP)
 
Stacey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 9,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You know where to find the guy? Cap his ass!
__________________
Stacey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 09:42 AM   #13
LateNite
Cosmic American
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Bikes:
Posts: 76
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just out of curiosity, when the thief was identified why was he not arrested? Whose idea was it to pay for the item's return? How did the officer get involved?
LateNite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 10:01 AM   #14
* jack *
|+|+|+|+|+|+|
Thread Starter
 
* jack *'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Durham, NC
Bikes: more, please.
Posts: 1,514
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LateNite View Post
Just out of curiosity, when the thief was identified why was he not arrested?
I dunno, I guess I had to officially press charges, having a report filed isn't enough to arrest, it seems.
I actually thought he would be arrested, and then I would be asked if I wanted to press charges.
I take full responsibility for not having this guy put in cuffs on the day the property was identified in his possession.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LateNite View Post
Whose idea was it to pay for the item's return?
It was the thief's idea. He saw on a flier that a reward was offered, no questions asked.
The officer went along with this, despite bad-mouthing the perp.
Like I said earlier, the officer did not advise, but I was subtly persuaded to go along with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LateNite View Post
How did the officer get involved?
He was the investigator assigned to my case.
He called the thief, he called me, we bartered over the phone.

Please be aware that I know I did the wrong thing, but I have never been in this situation before, and it was quite overwhelming.
Now that I have my property back, I can think more clearly, and I'm really bewildered over this whole situation.
__________________

Last edited by * jack *; 08-14-07 at 10:06 AM.
* jack * is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 10:19 AM   #15
Keith99
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by * jack * View Post

It was the thief's idea. He saw on a flier that a reward was offered, no questions asked.
The officer went along with this, despite bad-mouthing the perp.
Like I said earlier, the officer did not advise, but I was subtly persuaded to go along with this.

No it looks like it was your idea. You were the one who put out the flier, right? You were not preasured into this at all. What happened was exactly what any reasonable person would have hoped for, you just want to go back on your word. That makes any attempt at legal action very difficult.
Keith99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 10:22 AM   #16
LateNite
Cosmic American
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Bikes:
Posts: 76
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Now that I've read your account I can give a better opinion. I don't think you necessarily did the wrong thing. You probably facilitated the return of your property the best way possible. The officer was probably being pragmatic. You were willing to pay a reward and the police are probably overloaded with cases. He knows how hard it is to prove theft after the fact.
LateNite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 10:50 AM   #17
bobbyahines
Senior Member
 
bobbyahines's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Bikes: Bridgestone RB-2, Bridgestone CB-2, Specialized Hard Rock
Posts: 76
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If you happen to have no moral compass, steal this dude's stuff... All of it...
bobbyahines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 10:53 AM   #18
Krink
-
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyahines View Post
If you happen to have no moral compass, steal this dude's stuff... All of it...
...and offer to sell it back.
Krink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 11:08 AM   #19
dcon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Toronto
Bikes: '05 Bianchi Eros; '06 Bianchi Pista
Posts: 490
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You can't press charges. Only the prosecutor gets to do that. Sticky little point, I know...
dcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 11:13 AM   #20
catatonic
Chairman of the Bored
 
catatonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: St. Petersburg, FL
Bikes: 2004 Raleigh Talus, 2001 Motobecane Vent Noir (Custom build for heavy riders)
Posts: 5,825
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Honestly, I'd be half tempted to give the thief a milk carton portrait for this (please don't do this...I know better than do what I feel like, I just have a hot head).

Now on the thing to do, sadly since you bought it, that scres a lot of things....however you can see about if the way this was handlied is ethical.

The cop should have confiscated the items, arrested teh individual, and started legal proceedings. Downside, it will take a long time to get your stuff back. That's why I think he wanted you to barter, ethics or not it gets you your stuff back in days, not months. The thief getting the cash and not getting charged is BS though and needs remidied immediately, and with the harshest punishments offered by law.
catatonic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 11:31 AM   #21
SingingSabre 
BF's Level 12 Wizard
 
SingingSabre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Bikes: Diamondback Sorrento turned Xtracycle commuter
Posts: 1,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If the officer found the thief, why did he let you barter?

I'm confused.
__________________
Shameless plug (my sites):
Work
Photography
Vanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bklyn
Obviously, the guy's like a 12th level white wizard or something. His mere presence is a danger to mortals.
SingingSabre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 11:54 AM   #22
georgiaboy
Retro-nerd
 
georgiaboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Morningside - Atlanta
Bikes: 1991 Serotta Colorado II, 1986 Vitus 979, 1971 Juene Classic, 2008 Surly Crosscheck, 1949 Riva Sport
Posts: 1,583
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's all predicated upon how much evidence there is at the actual event. A guy showing up with the bike and wanting the reward is not enough to prove guilt.
__________________
Would you like a dream with that?
georgiaboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 12:23 PM   #23
* jack *
|+|+|+|+|+|+|
Thread Starter
 
* jack *'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Durham, NC
Bikes: more, please.
Posts: 1,514
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by catatonic View Post
The cop should have confiscated the items, arrested teh individual, and started legal proceedings. Downside, it will take a long time to get your stuff back.
That's why I think he wanted you to barter, ethics or not it gets you your stuff back in days, not months.
The thief getting the cash and not getting charged is BS though and needs remidied immediately, and with the harshest punishments offered by law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LateNite View Post
Now that I've read your account I can give a better opinion. I don't think you necessarily did the wrong thing. You probably facilitated the return of your property the best way possible.
The officer was probably being pragmatic. You were willing to pay a reward and the police are probably overloaded with cases. He knows how hard it is to prove theft after the fact.
I think this is the linchpin of the matter. Excellent perspectives, and one I don't doubt for a minute. I truly got that vibe from the investigating officer, so I went along with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
No it looks like it was your idea. You were the one who put out the flier, right?
That is partly true. I offered a 'reward' for info, not a 'ransom' for my property.

All in all, this is quite a dilemma, and more confusing than you folks even know - I left out a lot of details, most of them irrelevant, but all of them complicating matters.

Thanks for the advice and opinions. Over and out.
__________________

Last edited by * jack *; 08-14-07 at 12:36 PM.
* jack * is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:53 AM.