Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Foo Off-Topic chit chat with no general subject.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-15-07, 03:01 PM   #1
Suttree
some new kind of kick
Thread Starter
 
Suttree's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Smog Valley
Bikes: SOMA Rush, Miyata 912, Kogswell Mod. G, want a porteur bike
Posts: 1,541
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I Hate CERCLA and RCRA

They make me wish I was a bike mechanic instead of a lawyer. . .

that is all.

ps. if you know what these are you know what I mean--if not then
be glad.
Suttree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-07, 03:12 PM   #2
Allen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 4,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Super fund? I'm sorry.
Sunshine Bicycles in Athens, GA has a help wanted sign in the window.
Allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-07, 03:14 PM   #3
trsidn 
parched member
 
trsidn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Putting the 'fun' in dysfunctional
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD8, Trek SU200
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
I thought those were a boon to lawyers.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElJamoquio View Post
.... Other than being completely wrong, you're correct.
trsidn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-07, 03:30 PM   #4
Suttree
some new kind of kick
Thread Starter
 
Suttree's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Smog Valley
Bikes: SOMA Rush, Miyata 912, Kogswell Mod. G, want a porteur bike
Posts: 1,541
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
^ they are a boon to lawyers in that they make a lot of work--
I'm dealing with a general "hey, how do these laws work and how
do they apply to our project" type question. . .and to the uninitiated
the laws are a bit tough to assimilate.
Suttree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-07, 03:38 PM   #5
bikingshearer 
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
 
bikingshearer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Bikes: 1967 Paramount, 1982-ish Ron Cooper,1986 De Rosa Professional, 1978 Eisentraut "A," 1961 BianchiCompetizione, 1994 Trek 520, 199? Burley Bossa Nova, early-1970s Cinelli Speciale Corsa
Posts: 3,350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trsidn View Post
I thought those were a boon to lawyers.
Well, they certainly are a full employment guarantee for lawyers. So is asbestos. So is the ever-mutating misama that is the Internal Revenue Code. Doesn't mean the work is the least bit enjoyable. You have to have a pretty special brain to be able to do any of these for any length of time without going postal, losing your soul, or both. There's nothing quite like sending out 543 specially prepared interrogatories, all requiring answers in writing and sworn to under penalty of perjury, to some poor schlub who is dying of mesothelioma to make you feel good about yourself and your profession . . . . which is why I won't go near that stuff with a ten foot pole.

The real problem with CERCLA and the like is that so much of the game ends up being about finger-pointing instead of actually getting sites cleaned up. That doesn't mean that sites don't get cleaned up - sometimes, they do, eventually - it's just that the law as devised is at least as much about apperances and "fixing blame" rather than actually accomplishing the supposed goal. The amount of resources that are wasted on fighting over which parties are responsible for a clean-up, and then fighting over which insurer is on the hook for the bill, beggars the imagination.

In about the only thing I have ever heard the insurance industry advocate that I agree with, the major insurers wanted to simply surcharge all existing actors and insurers in the industries that caused the Stringfellows and the Love Canals and the Iron Mountains across the board to fix the problems, rather than trying to figure out who over the past 50 or 75 years ran the places or dumped stuff at the places and pin it on them (or their insurere) to pay. (An especially stupid process, that many of the operators and dumpers no longer exist or were merged into something else 17 times in the meantime.) A hell of a lot less money would be spent, each entity's costs would be a hell of a lot more predictable, and hell of a lot more remediation would actually get done. Of course, nobody in Congress could stand and pontificate about having cracked down on polluters, so that kind of common sense never stood a chance.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
bikingshearer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-07, 03:42 PM   #6
randya
Senior Member
 
randya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in bed with your mom
Bikes: who cares?
Posts: 13,689
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm not a lawyer, I'm a hydrogeologist who specializes in subsurface site characterization, monitoring, permitting and clean up issues at a variety of RCRA subtitle C and D sites, and state and federal CERCLA sites.

RCRA is a special interest boondoggle for the most part, the biggest hazardous waste generators in the country, the mining and oil and gas industries, are largely exempt and have been for years; and the Subtitle D regs were manipulated by the biggest waste disposal companies (Waste Management and BFI) back in the Reagan/Bush Sr. years.

Don't get me started on CERCLA, it was supposed to provide money to clean up all the Love Canals, with wrangling over who is liable left for later. But it's never been properly funded and way more money gets spent on lawyers and litigation than ever gets spent on actually characterizing and cleaning up the polluted sites. That said, there have been some success stories over the years.

Last edited by randya; 10-15-07 at 03:51 PM.
randya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-07, 03:46 PM   #7
bluebottle1
Kicked out of the Webelos
 
bluebottle1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 239
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I took one class about CERCLA in law school and right then swore "never again." Wading through that crap is some of the most mind-numbing stuff I've ever encountered in the practice. It was the acronyms that really drove me crazy. There's an acronym for everything. The day I found myself writing "The EPA uses RCRA and CERCLA to force the PRPs to clean up the PCBs," I decided I was done with environmental law.
__________________
______________________________________________

Kicked out of the Webelos.
bluebottle1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-07, 03:54 PM   #8
Suttree
some new kind of kick
Thread Starter
 
Suttree's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Smog Valley
Bikes: SOMA Rush, Miyata 912, Kogswell Mod. G, want a porteur bike
Posts: 1,541
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebottle1 View Post
I took one class about CERCLA in law school and right then swore "never again." Wading through that crap is some of the most mind-numbing stuff I've ever encountered in the practice. It was the acronyms that really drove me crazy. There's an acronym for everything. The day I found myself writing "The EPA uses RCRA and CERCLA to force the PRPs to clean up the PCBs," I decided I was done with environmental law.
"After this mind-numbing journey through RCRA, we return to the provision that is, after all, the one before us for examination." American Mining Congress v. EPA 824 F2d 1177, 1189 (DC Cir. 1987)
Suttree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-07, 04:02 PM   #9
Allen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 4,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
By the look of that, is it safe to assume that it may take the rest of time for the room full of a hundred monkeys, chained to typewriters, to slap out MacBeth, but only about a week and a half to start churning out environmental law code?
Allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-07, 04:03 PM   #10
trsidn 
parched member
 
trsidn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Putting the 'fun' in dysfunctional
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD8, Trek SU200
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 195 Post(s)
to be, or not to be...
that is the gzorninplat....


an old Bob Newhart joke
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElJamoquio View Post
.... Other than being completely wrong, you're correct.
trsidn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-07, 04:19 PM   #11
bikebuddha 
Senior Member
 
bikebuddha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Somewhere in time
Bikes:
Posts: 1,137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiju-velo View Post
They make me wish I was a bike mechanic instead of a lawyer. . .

that is all.

ps. if you know what these are you know what I mean--if not then
be glad.
Remind me why I'm in law school again. ;P
__________________
The few, the proud, the likely insane, Metro-Atlanta bicycle commuters.
bikebuddha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-07, 04:21 PM   #12
Suttree
some new kind of kick
Thread Starter
 
Suttree's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Smog Valley
Bikes: SOMA Rush, Miyata 912, Kogswell Mod. G, want a porteur bike
Posts: 1,541
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenG View Post
By the look of that, is it safe to assume that it may take the rest of time for the room full of a hundred monkeys, chained to typewriters, to slap out MacBeth, but only about a week and a half to start churning out environmental law code?
the individual code sections aren't that hard to read or poorly written, in general--
it is the web of federal statutes, federal regulations, delegated authority to states,
state statutes, and state regulations that is maddening. I hate these general
"how does this work" questions. . .it is much easier to answer something like
"is hexavalent chromium hazardous waste subject to RCRA" than to answer--
"how can we perform state environmental review consistent with federal law which
trumps state law, even though the fed law is delegated to state authority"
Suttree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-07, 04:22 PM   #13
Suttree
some new kind of kick
Thread Starter
 
Suttree's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Smog Valley
Bikes: SOMA Rush, Miyata 912, Kogswell Mod. G, want a porteur bike
Posts: 1,541
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikebuddha View Post
Remind me why I'm in law school again. ;P
cause once you get those paychecks you can get the sweetest bike you
don't have enough time to ride
Suttree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-07, 04:22 PM   #14
bikingshearer 
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
 
bikingshearer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Bikes: 1967 Paramount, 1982-ish Ron Cooper,1986 De Rosa Professional, 1978 Eisentraut "A," 1961 BianchiCompetizione, 1994 Trek 520, 199? Burley Bossa Nova, early-1970s Cinelli Speciale Corsa
Posts: 3,350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikebuddha View Post
Remind me why I'm in law school again. ;P
If you don't know, then I suggest you run, not walk, to the nearest exit and keep going. Law can be a very rewarding career, but not for those who (like me) just kind of stumble into it.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
bikingshearer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-07, 04:28 PM   #15
bikingshearer 
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
 
bikingshearer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Bikes: 1967 Paramount, 1982-ish Ron Cooper,1986 De Rosa Professional, 1978 Eisentraut "A," 1961 BianchiCompetizione, 1994 Trek 520, 199? Burley Bossa Nova, early-1970s Cinelli Speciale Corsa
Posts: 3,350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenG View Post
By the look of that, is it safe to assume that it may take the rest of time for the room full of a hundred monkeys, chained to typewriters, to slap out MacBeth, but only about a week and a half to start churning out environmental law code?
Nah, the monkeys would take at least a year or two to crank out an entire environmental legislative scheme - even monkeys can only pound a keyboard so fast. A week and a half is what it would take the simian-encrusted room to produce this year's amendments to the federal peach pit regulations. And believe it or not, there is a good chance that somewhere in D.C., there is one or more government lawyers being paid with our tax dollars to do exactly that - well, this may be apricot pit regulation update year instead of peach pit regualtion update year, but you get the idea.

Moral of the story: Not every law school grad gets to be Atticus Finch. In fact, damn few of them do.
__________________
"I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney
bikingshearer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-07, 05:27 PM   #16
bikebuddha 
Senior Member
 
bikebuddha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Somewhere in time
Bikes:
Posts: 1,137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikingshearer View Post
If you don't know, then I suggest you run, not walk, to the nearest exit and keep going. Law can be a very rewarding career, but not for those who (like me) just kind of stumble into it.
No, I know why I'm here and I won't be getting one of those big paychecks kaiju-velo is talking about.
__________________
The few, the proud, the likely insane, Metro-Atlanta bicycle commuters.
bikebuddha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-07, 05:33 PM   #17
Allen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 4,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikingshearer View Post
Moral of the story: Not every law school grad gets to be Atticus Finch. In fact, damn few of them do.
So that's what my boy has been up to. I've been wondering why he drove a nicer car than mine. And his collection of Andrew Wyeth originals really is amazing.


Atticus Finch
Allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-07, 06:13 PM   #18
Suttree
some new kind of kick
Thread Starter
 
Suttree's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Smog Valley
Bikes: SOMA Rush, Miyata 912, Kogswell Mod. G, want a porteur bike
Posts: 1,541
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikebuddha View Post
No, I know why I'm here and I won't be getting one of those big paychecks kaiju-velo is talking about.
just for the record I don't work for a giant firm making a huge salary--but I did blow some of my relatively modest first paychecks on a new bike. . .

So I found the section of the California Code of Regs that implements the California equivalent of RCRA--they were repealed by operation of law because DTSC failed to satisfy the rulemaking process. . .
Suttree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-07, 08:32 PM   #19
cohophysh
fishologist
 
cohophysh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Bikes: Diamondback MTB; Leader 736R
Posts: 1,201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
poor bastages, I feel your pain, I have done some CERCLA work
__________________
We cannot solve problems with the same level of consciousness that created them. A.E.

1990 Diamond Back MTB
2007 Leader 736R
www.cohocyclist.blogspot.com
http://www.loopd.com/members/cohocyclist/Default.aspx


cohophysh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:28 AM.