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Old 10-17-07, 07:14 AM   #1
skinnyone
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Who's ready to boycott artists represented by the RIAA?

I am. I am tired of the bullying by RIAA. I am hereby not buying any music by artists represented by then.
Their first case involved imposing a $220000 fine on a single mom . Nice work guys.
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Old 10-17-07, 07:22 AM   #2
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I am. I am tired of the bullying by RIAA. I am hereby not buying any music by artists represented by then.
Their first case involved imposing a $220000 fine on a single mom . Nice work guys.
When did the RIAA start representing artists as well as musicians?
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Old 10-17-07, 07:23 AM   #3
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Um no.

Their first case that went all the way thru the court system had that result. And a jury of her peers decided what she owed.
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Old 10-17-07, 07:33 AM   #4
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Um no.

Their first case that went all the way thru the court system had that result. And a jury of her peers decided what she owed.
Umm, no...that's not actually how our system works.
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Old 10-17-07, 07:38 AM   #5
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Umm, no...that's not actually how our system works.
The jury found her guilty, then they were given a range they could charge her for each of the songs in question. I think the total amount was roughly 20k-2mil, they choose to place each fine in the middle of the range.

So they found her guilty, and decided how much, within the limits they were given, she was to be fined.

Better?
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Old 10-17-07, 07:39 AM   #6
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When did the RIAA start representing artists as well as musicians?
A musician is an artist.....RIAA (RIAA represents the Industry and the Recording Artists, supposedly)
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Old 10-17-07, 07:53 AM   #7
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The jury found her guilty, then they were given a range they could charge her for each of the songs in question. I think the total amount was roughly 20k-2mil, they choose to place each fine in the middle of the range.

So they found her guilty, and decided how much, within the limits they were given, she was to be fined.

Better?
Actually, they found her civilly liable. ("Guilt" is a criminal law term.) The amount levied is not a criminal fine but a civil judgment in favor of RIAA.

At any rate, that's pretty much just semantics. The thing that gets me is that there are so many folks who seem to think the law doesn't apply to them. The truth is that this stuff really isn't hard to understand. It's pretty intuitive. The number of times I've heard that a person can't be violating the law because they're just copying music and giving it away, not selling it, is staggering. This lady probably started with that in mind and then, hopefully, got set straight by her lawyer. She would undoubtedly have been offered a fairly minimal settlement before trial, but she chose to roll the dice with a jury. You never know what a jury is going to do. As soon as a case goes to them, the best lawyer in the world couldn't tell you how it will all end. This lady got what she asked for: a trial. It just didn't end how she would have had it.
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Old 10-17-07, 08:15 AM   #8
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Umm, no...that's not actually how our system works.
Care to educate us all on just how our system does work, then?
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Old 10-17-07, 08:18 AM   #9
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Care to educate us all on just how our system does work, then?
Judges hand out punishments, jury's merely decide if they will get punished.
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Old 10-17-07, 08:24 AM   #10
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The trial isn't what bothers me...

This is what bothers me:

RIAA Eyes Next Possible Targets: CD Burners, Radio Listeners


Technically, ripping a CD to put on your MP3 player is a no-no.

I almost never buy or download music (free or not) these days. Only on a rare occasion will i purchase a CD for afew of my favored artists/groups, one of which is indie.
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Old 10-17-07, 08:31 AM   #11
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Judges hand out punishments, jury's merely decide if they will get punished.
Not so, Timmy. Juries make a recommendation on punishment in most cases. The judge doesn't have to accept the jury's decision, but often does.
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Old 10-17-07, 08:38 AM   #12
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timmy - I suggest you go back to civics class before you come educate us. Depending on the jurisdiction and the laws of that jurisdiction, many juries are charged with determining a "fair" judgement. The judge typically signs off on them unless s/he feels they are way out of proportion with the facts of the case.
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Old 10-17-07, 09:47 AM   #13
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Cival penalties are generally awarded by a jury, unless both parties agree to a trial by a judge.
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Old 10-17-07, 09:49 AM   #14
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^^^ true that. I think Timmy's confusing (non-capital) criminal cases with civil.
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Old 10-17-07, 10:07 AM   #15
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... Brad
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Old 10-17-07, 10:14 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Tom Stormcrowe View Post
A musician is an artist.....RIAA (RIAA represents the Industry and the Recording Artists, supposedly):ro lleyes:
a musician is a musician.
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Old 10-17-07, 10:40 AM   #17
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Actually, they found her civilly liable. ("Guilt" is a criminal law term.) The amount levied is not a criminal fine but a civil judgment in favor of RIAA.

At any rate, that's pretty much just semantics. The thing that gets me is that there are so many folks who seem to think the law doesn't apply to them. The truth is that this stuff really isn't hard to understand. It's pretty intuitive. The number of times I've heard that a person can't be violating the law because they're just copying music and giving it away, not selling it, is staggering. This lady probably started with that in mind and then, hopefully, got set straight by her lawyer. She would undoubtedly have been offered a fairly minimal settlement before trial, but she chose to roll the dice with a jury. You never know what a jury is going to do. As soon as a case goes to them, the best lawyer in the world couldn't tell you how it will all end. This lady got what she asked for: a trial. It just didn't end how she would have had it.
My bad, it was not a fine but rather a civil judgment handed down. There are several key questions that remain unanswered regarding the case.

First, does making music available mean copyright infringement? I dont think so? Besides what if she didnt understand how the software worked?
Second, what about the chances of someone hacking into the computer/bot/wireless hack who just happened to use your IP to disseminate songs?

The thing is that RIAA doesn't realize that "the market" is no longer willing to pay $12 for a cd and instead is trying to bully everyone and their little kid. Chances are this is going to end up being a PR nightmare in the near future.
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Old 10-17-07, 10:42 AM   #18
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a musician is a musician.
Music - subset of Performing Arts
Performing Art - Subset of The Arts
=> music is art..

musician hence by definition is an artist
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Old 10-17-07, 10:50 AM   #19
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^^^ true that. I think Timmy's confusing (non-capital) criminal cases with civil.
I've been on one criminal and one civil jury. In both cases we decided the outcome and the award/sentencing.
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Old 10-17-07, 10:56 AM   #20
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First, does making music available mean copyright infringement?
That's the scary implication of this case as I read it. RIAA never proved she uploaded or downloaded any music, just implied that she made it available for download and the judges instruction said if the jury found she did that, she was liable. So if I understand it right, RIAA got what they wanted in a legal precedent saying that just making available copyrighted material is agains copyright laws and makes a person liable for damages.

Scary.

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a musician is a musician.
What about the "artist" formerly known as Prince?
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Old 10-17-07, 11:00 AM   #21
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That's the scary implication of this case as I read it. RIAA never proved she uploaded or downloaded any music, just implied that she made it available for download and the judges instruction said if the jury found she did that, she was liable. So if I understand it right, RIAA got what they wanted in a legal precedent saying that just making available copyrighted material is agains copyright laws and makes a person liable for damages.

Scary.
True, and where does it end? Does making a book available on my book shelf mean I am violating copyright laws?
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Old 10-17-07, 11:17 AM   #22
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Music - subset of Performing Arts
Performing Art - Subset of The Arts
=> music is art..

musician hence by definition is an artist
artist = artist

writer = writer

musician = musician

actor = actor

see my line of thought?
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Old 10-17-07, 11:25 AM   #23
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artist = artist

writer = writer

musician = musician

actor = actor

see my line of thought?
Sure. But they are also artists. In an associative, not a definitive sense.
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Old 10-17-07, 11:26 AM   #24
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Sure. But they are also artists. In an associative, not a definitive sense.
britney spears is an artist? give me a break.
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Old 10-17-07, 11:33 AM   #25
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britney spears is an artist? give me a break.
Dude, some people think Thomas Kincade is an artist.

Some people think Frank Gehry is an artist.

Hell, I got a Bachelor of Arts degree in college, but that doesn't necessarily make me one.

So they have the name Artist as part of the RIAA name. Big deal. Just because WWE has Entertainment in it doesn't make that so, either.

ETA... why not just ditch the word altogether? You paint something, you're a painter. You sculpt something, you're a sculptor, etc. Let the work determine the title, yeah?
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