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  1. #1
    '05 NUEser EJ123's Avatar
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    Breast Cancer Deception


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    Body By Nintendo Psydotek's Avatar
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    Meh. I work in detection and diagnostics not treatment.

    Some may be whismical conjecture and/or correlation, but i do feel the medical industry is much more focused on treatment rather than prevention and/or cures because that's where the money is unfortunately. When you have a patient that takes your pills once a day to stay alive and well then you have a steady source of income. If you cure that person (even if it is an expensive cure), they won't need you afterwards.

    As for me, if i get a non-resectable cancer, just lemme go. I don't wanna be chained to a daily cocktail of drugs which may reduce my quality of living.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsharr View Post
    A girl once asked me to give her twelve inches and make it hurt. I had to make love to her 3 times and then punch her in the nose.

  3. #3
    Chairman of the Bored catatonic's Avatar
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    Thing is, it's easier to prove it can treat than it is to prove it can prevent.

    That's why the industry is how it is.

    Honestly, the tone of that article sounded a lot like the stuff the homeopathic medicine crowd spews...lots of words with little to back it up. (I have some serious axes to grind with the homeopathic medicine crowd...water cannot retain properties of something that is not even present in it anymore...it's basic science...water is water, not wormwood or whatever you happened to put in it before diluting it beyond a 1/100000000 mixture)

    If Vitamin D is so great at stopping cancer in it's tracks, then why did my grandmother, who practically bathes in milk (she goes through 3 gallons a week), have such a severe cancer as she had?

    The reason there is no major report is these people are busy going after cures via science, and not going after verifying every household good under the sun. If they accidentally found out Vitamin D was useful, they would have made a Vitamin D supplement to be used during treatments.


    Now, where pharmaseutical companies use federal grant (read: not a loan) funding for drug research, then go on to sell it for $10 a pill...that really pisses me off....that's just bull____ at it's finest.
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  4. #4
    '05 NUEser EJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catatonic View Post
    Thing is, it's easier to prove it can treat than it is to prove it can prevent.

    That's why the industry is how it is.

    Honestly, the tone of that article sounded a lot like the stuff the homeopathic medicine crowd spews...lots of words with little to back it up. (I have some serious axes to grind with the homeopathic medicine crowd...water cannot retain properties of something that is not even present in it anymore...it's basic science...water is water, not wormwood or whatever you happened to put in it before diluting it beyond a 1/100000000 mixture)

    If Vitamin D is so great at stopping cancer in it's tracks, then why did my grandmother, who practically bathes in milk (she goes through 3 gallons a week), have such a severe cancer as she had?

    The reason there is no major report is these people are busy going after cures via science, and not going after verifying every household good under the sun. If they accidentally found out Vitamin D was useful, they would have made a Vitamin D supplement to be used during treatments.


    Now, where pharmaseutical companies use federal grant (read: not a loan) funding for drug research, then go on to sell it for $10 a pill...that really pisses me off....that's just bull____ at it's finest.
    What kind of cancer and what kind of milk?

  5. #5
    Chairman of the Bored catatonic's Avatar
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    standard whole milk, vitamin D.

    She had lymphoma.

    Had, she got medical treatment and it worked.
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    Long-time Curmudgeon DrPete's Avatar
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    I love how people think it's actually as simple as "finding a cure." It's not like there's one magic drug for "cancer" that will stomp it out forever. If you think there is, it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of tumor biology.

    I assure you that the first person/company to come up with a 100% preventive measure for any type of cancer will enjoy wealth beyond imagination. So much for the capitalism argument.
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

  7. #7
    '05 NUEser EJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catatonic View Post
    standard whole milk, vitamin D.

    She had lymphoma.

    Had, she got medical treatment and it worked.

    "A large prospective study from Norway was
    reported in the British Journal of Cancer 61 (3):456-9,
    March 1990. (Almost 16,000 individuals were followed for 11
    and a half years). For most cancers there was no association
    between the tumour and milk ingestion. However, in lymphoma,
    there was a strong positive association. If one drank two
    glasses or more daily (or the equivalent in dairy products),
    the odds were 3.4 times greater than in persons drinking
    less than one glass of developing a lymphoma."

    Hm.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
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    My mother died from ovarian cancer. Someone told me that there are over 700 different types of just ovarian cancer alone! The reason there is no cure for cancer is because there are so many different types and even when 2 people have the same type, chemo could work for one and not the other and no one really knows why at this point. It's incredibly difficult to treat cancer, much less prevent it (besides doing obvious things like not smoking, etc.) and there are some cancers that are more curable than others. The bottom line is, no one knows what causes cancer and until they figure that out, there will be no cure. I really doubt there is some sort of conspiracy within the medical or pharmaceutical industries to not find a cure. They have relatives who die from cancer too. Don't you think they'd like to save themselves and their families?

  9. #9
    '05 NUEser EJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJfolder View Post
    My mother died from ovarian cancer. Someone told me that there are over 700 different types of just ovarian cancer alone! The reason there is no cure for cancer is because there are so many different types and even when 2 people have the same type, chemo could work for one and not the other and no one really knows why at this point. It's incredibly difficult to treat cancer, much less prevent it (besides doing obvious things like not smoking, etc.) and there are some cancers that are more curable than others. The bottom line is, no one knows what causes cancer and until they figure that out, there will be no cure. I really doubt there is some sort of conspiracy within the medical or pharmaceutical industries to not find a cure. They have relatives who die from cancer too. Don't you think they'd like to save themselves and their families?
    I whole-heartedly agree, but when I do believe there are some forms of conspiracy that are used.

  10. #10
    But on the road more MTBLover's Avatar
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    A truly fundamental problem is that most people think "cancer" is one disease. It ain't. And I really get distressed to hear things like "mammography prevents breast cancer." It does nothing of the kind- it's a screening test, just like (shudder) the prostate specific antigen (PSA) or hemoccult (for blood in the stool). HUGE difference between screening and diagnosis, and an even bigger one between these and treatment, yet people get these mixed up all the time. We need to do a much, much better job of educating the public about this stuff- and it's not going to be through the "medical reporter" on your local TV stations. /rant

    BTW, I'm a firm believer in complementary and alternative medicine- at least to the extent that it needs to be researched in as unbiased a way possible, without any pre-conceived notions about what it can and can't do that are informed (hamstrung, actually) by the allopathic tradition. One thing this article gets more or less right is that virtually every system of medicine deals with BC, as they do most other diseases. We should be looking at these other systems for guidance as we look at new ways to treat not just cancer but a host of diseases.

    One other thing- I'm a cancer researcher, and I, along with most of my partners in crime (as the author would put it) have never been funded by pharma. All of our funding comes from NIH, generally the National Cancer Institute. Our tax dollars at work, folks. The author of this article is more than a little over the top in pointing fingers at big, bad pharma (not to say that one shouldn't point those fingers, for sure, but they aren't always the bad guys). Too much visceral emotion in this article and not enough dispassionate reasoning.
    Last edited by MTBLover; 10-18-07 at 01:05 PM.

  11. #11
    Body By Nintendo Psydotek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ123 View Post
    I whole-heartedly agree, but when I do believe there are some forms of conspiracy that are used.
    You need to play Deus Ex if you haven't already. There's a big pharmaceutical (sp?) conspiracy weaved into the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsharr View Post
    A girl once asked me to give her twelve inches and make it hurt. I had to make love to her 3 times and then punch her in the nose.

  12. #12
    '05 NUEser EJ123's Avatar
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    Sounds like child's play.

  13. #13
    Long-time Curmudgeon DrPete's Avatar
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    I tried to read more of it and got too angry. The ignorance is just too much to bear.
    "Unless he was racing there was no way he could match my speed."

  14. #14
    NYC Maggie Backstedt fan
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    The link is to an article "written" by a guy selling herbs that "prevent" cancer.

    'nuff said.

    It's really a shame, because there is a genuine conversation about cancer prevention - e.g., that there are a number of environmentally prevalent chemicals that probably cause many cancers - that needs to happen in the developed world.
    "I can't believe we still have to protest this crap." - courtesy, Johnny Monkey

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    NYC Maggie Backstedt fan
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    Fresh Air from WHYY, October 4, 2007 · In The Secret History of the War on Cancer, environmental-health expert Devra Davis warns that we're ignoring dozens of cancer-causing chemicals, like asbestos, benzene, vinyl chloride, and dioxin.

    She writes that, like the tobacco companies, the chemical industry has managed to obfuscate the carcinogenic dangers of chemical and other toxic waste.

    Davis directs the Center for Environmental Oncology at the University of Pittsburgh Cancer Institute and teaches epidemiology in the university's public-health graduate program.

    Her earlier book When Smoke Ran Like Water: Tales of Environmental Deception and the Battle Against Pollution was a finalist for the National Book Award.

    Link here to interview:

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=14986010
    "I can't believe we still have to protest this crap." - courtesy, Johnny Monkey

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  16. #16
    '05 NUEser EJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanfleisig View Post
    The link is to an article "written" by a guy selling herbs that "prevent" cancer.

    'nuff said.

    It's really a shame, because there is a genuine conversation about cancer prevention - e.g., that there are a number of environmentally prevalent chemicals that probably cause many cancers - that needs to happen in the developed world.
    Wrong wrong wrong.

    Read his bio. before boasting ignorant remarks: http://www.newstarget.com/adamshealthstats.html

  17. #17
    Killing Rabbits
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    LOL the health ranger! EJ123 I like your thirst for knowledge but you tend to pick the worst sources. In general any piece written for the media, or for those who want to see the author without a shirt (e.g. bodybuilding sites), is total crap.

    Try reading stuff that has passed at least a little peer review.. use pubmed and the like.

  18. #18
    Killing Rabbits
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    Oh and the link between cancer and vitamin d is HOT right now, certainly no conspiracy preventing that work.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum
    This study supports the hypothesis that sunlight exposure reduces risk of advanced breast cancer among women with light skin pigmentation.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum
    Our data support a protective effect of dietary vitamin D on premenopausal breast cancer risk independent of dietary calcium intake.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...RVAbstractPlus
    Reduction of breast cancer risk, and simultaneously osteoporosis, might be achieved by increasing dietary intake of calcium and vitamin D to RDA levels. This may be particularly applicable to females during puberty and adolescence.

    Even more so with colon cancer...

  19. #19
    '05 NUEser EJ123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enthalpic View Post
    Oh and the link between cancer and vitamin d is HOT right now, certainly no conspiracy preventing that work.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum
    This study supports the hypothesis that sunlight exposure reduces risk of advanced breast cancer among women with light skin pigmentation.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum
    Our data support a protective effect of dietary vitamin D on premenopausal breast cancer risk independent of dietary calcium intake.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...RVAbstractPlus
    Reduction of breast cancer risk, and simultaneously osteoporosis, might be achieved by increasing dietary intake of calcium and vitamin D to RDA levels. This may be particularly applicable to females during puberty and adolescence.

    Even more so with colon cancers...


    It's blatantly evident you have no clue of what the Newstarget website is, apart from quick assumptions.
    Anyways, it's funny on the final link provided it states "Reduction of breast cancer risk, and simultaneously osteoporosis, might be achieved by increasing dietary intake of calcium and vitamin D to RDA levels."
    Well of course..with the average American diet and the lack of substantial sunlight, deficiency is common. Here are plenty of articles from NT about it: http://www.newstarget.com/vitamin_D.html
    I suppose you oppose the editor's warnings about HFCS, synthetic preservative, or even artifical sweetners among other things, as listed on the left hand side of the homepage?

    "general any piece written for the media, or for those who want to see the author without a shirt (e.g. bodybuilding sites), is total crap."
    Last I checked this website was written for the audience, and as you would have uncovered if you browsed around, the "health-ranger"'s pictures were to explain what can come about through holistic measures. (Perhaps read the whole article if not done so before stating erroneous claims)

  20. #20
    But on the road more MTBLover's Avatar
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    I don't think the guy's a flake, any more than I think people like Dean Ornish is (interesting that he's not in the list of people he listens to, though!). That said, this guy's regimen is nothing short of heroic. My sense is that not even extremely motivated people would adhere to a regimen like this, and there's lots of empirical evidence to back me on this. Look at how many people drop out of simple programs like WeightWatchers, stop going to the gym, or just generally slide back into their evil ways. So is his program efficacious (that is, producing a desired effect)? Undoubtedly. Is it effective (meaning that in real life, will people adhere to it)? Highly, highly doubtful.

    BTW, this guy is taking in a huge amount of phytoestrogens- I'd be interested to see what his hormone profile looks like.

  21. #21
    Chicken farmer! Eboo's Avatar
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    EJ...I am in no way, shape, or form trying to flame you here. It's admirable the time that you spend researching something that I'm sure is something you are very much interested, and I hope you continue to do so. However, here is why I am worried about your stance on this subject:

    1. www.newstarget.com is NOT an authoritative source on alternative/holistic medicine. The man's "street cred" is
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Adams
    "'I've found a way to unlock at least another 10%, maybe more. Today, thanks to the help of nutrition and high-density nutritional supplements, I've become a superlearning machine with a nervous system of such capacity that sometimes it amazes me."
    Do you understand that the man can claim anything he wants to on his own personal website? Generally speaking, .com's are pretty much worthless as a source, and if you try to use one as a primary source in medical or scholarly literature, you will a) not be taken seriously and b) lose respect from your peers. When performing research on the internet, .edu and .gov sites have a little more authority, as there are professional reputations at stake. With that in mind, reading one fact from one source does not necessarily make it true, even if it IS from a peer-reviewed or educational resource.

    2. This is not an article. It is an un-cited quotation from a study not carried out by the website. If you try to pull this in a paper you submit to a professor or teacher, there will likely be severe academic consequences. It is called plagiarism when you do not give proper credit to the author of a study. He, or whomever wrote that piece, clearly did not carry out the study themselves.

    I really hope you do not misinterpret my intentions here, EJ. You seem to be getting very defensive about this particular website, but part of becoming an authority on a topic means learning to read everything with a critical eye and mind. You are so young yet, you have so much time to keep researching and continue learning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psydotek View Post
    Will they be snackrificed on a roll of sourdough?

  22. #22
    tired donnamb's Avatar
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    This cracks me up.

    Quote Originally Posted by the loopy author
    Wearing pink for breast cancer, or buying pink products, is a demonstration of your support for the enslavement of women by a highly-unethical industry that seeks to turn women's bodies into profit centers. Wearing pink shouts, "I support the ignorance of women! I support Big Pharma! I support male-dominated corporate control over the health of women's breasts!"
    So here's a man telling us who's "enslaving" women and who isn't.
    "Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."

  23. #23
    Chicken farmer! Eboo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donnamb View Post
    This cracks me up.


    So here's a man telling us who's "enslaving" women and who isn't.
    Yeah...I laughed, then I cried a little bit, and now I fear that I'll never be able to get my eyes unrolled from the back of my head.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psydotek View Post
    Will they be snackrificed on a roll of sourdough?

  24. #24
    Chepooka StupidlyBrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donnamb View Post
    This cracks me up.


    So here's a man telling us who's "enslaving" women and who isn't.
    Fine. We'll arm-wrestle and the loser needs to be slave-like for some pre-agreed period.

    <where is my cartman voice?????>

  25. #25
    Senior Member tasr's Avatar
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    Why post something like this. Even the controversy will piss people off, and none of that debate is good crap.

    I've seen to many go from cancer………..and there’s NO fu%$ing debate about it. Sorry my heart is on my sleeve about now.

    Peace
    Last edited by tasr; 10-18-07 at 08:52 PM.
    James

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