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Old 11-20-07, 05:52 PM   #1
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this is why we call them ex-cops

This really makes me mad.
I really just want to find this cop and beat him within an inch of his life.
Maybe then I'd dump salt on every place I see that he's bleeding.
Then perhaps urinate on him.
You really have no idea how angry seeing this makes me.
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Old 11-20-07, 05:57 PM   #2
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What the f?! That's horrible.
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Old 11-20-07, 06:11 PM   #3
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I'm venturing a guess that cop was picked on in school.
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Old 11-20-07, 06:13 PM   #4
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Why did he even have a camera in the first place?
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Old 11-20-07, 09:37 PM   #5
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Holy crap. I hope that prick is fired and charged. That's not just inappropriate, I'm pretty sure it's illegal.

What the heck tripped the cop off?
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Old 11-20-07, 10:18 PM   #6
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...92117793977759

I strongly disagree with the term used in the title. The ex-policeman in question is a complete ass hat though.
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Old 11-20-07, 10:36 PM   #7
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This cop = ******bagius maximus.
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Old 11-20-07, 10:41 PM   #8
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Deamer, I don't know if you are aware of this or not, but the law allows you to resist unlawful arrest or assault by police officers. You may also intervene when someone else is being unlawfully assaulted or arrested by a cop, whether they ask for your help or not.

Although there is more to it, and this in not legal advice, it can be summed up like this- if there is no probable cause for an arrest, like seeing a crime be committed, eye witness accounts, or information from dispatchers, or some other form of substantial probable cause, an arrest is illegal as it has no legal purpose. Use of force when not warranted by a threat to an officers safety or the safety of those around him or her is a felony in most cases, and it's your right to resist it should it happen to you or someone you happen to so much as see.

Essentially, if you get unlawfully assaulted or detained by police, and you know the police have no legal right to do what they are doing, and you know they know, according to the supreme court it is legal to take any action necessary to neutralize the situation, up to taking an officers life. Of course, 98% of people in the US probably don't have a complete grasp of the laws concerning arrest, so resisting with deadly force would, for most people, be life in prison if not a stupid last stand. But the law is the law, and once in a while it might pay to know it.

As a disclaimer, I would like to point out that I am not anti police, what we are talking about is a tiny, tiny ,tiny problem that most people outside of inner city ghetto areas like Detroit and LA will never experience. I am only pointing out what the law says since you brought it up.
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Old 11-20-07, 10:46 PM   #9
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Kid was looking for trouble, and he found it. When I was a teen aged driver (and this is a 20 year old, not a teenager) I had plenty of opportunities to interact with cops. Doesn't take brilliance to not start some crap with a cop.

Cop was out of line, but this kid was looking for trouble. He instigated it, he fostered it, and he harvested it.

2 a.m. in a commuter lot with a camera mounted. Looking for trouble, period.
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Old 11-20-07, 10:51 PM   #10
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...92117793977759

I strongly disagree with the term used in the title. The ex-policeman in question is a complete ass hat though.
Agree!

ass hat

But to lump all these guys and gals in a group like that is not right. I work with too many retired cops, detectives as well as riding with them and the ex SWAT captains ... and they are not like this at all.
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Old 11-20-07, 10:53 PM   #11
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I would really like to know what the driver was doing in an empty lot witth a camera at 2 a.m. That is just very odd in my book.
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Old 11-20-07, 11:07 PM   #12
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I would really like to know what the driver was doing in an empty lot witth a camera at 2 a.m. That is just very odd in my book.
according to him, he was frequently being harassed by police in that town while the police maintain that he has been a nuisance. this is old news.
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Old 11-20-07, 11:11 PM   #13
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According to the video the guy did have priors by his own testimony. twahl is correct. The guy was looking for trouble. I've dealt with police before. Lesson #1 is not to give them an attitude. Lesson #2 is answer the questions as politely as possible. Cooperate and the cops will usually leave you alone.
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Old 11-20-07, 11:22 PM   #14
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Cops are pigs, it's that simple. They don't deserve to sleep on the ground we walk on or drink from the water I defecate in.

And this is coming from somebody who has/is currently being ****ed by the law from all angles.
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Old 11-20-07, 11:27 PM   #15
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Professional behavior is what one should expprect from an officer.

1)License and registration please. A police officer is well within his rights to ask for these and you must produce them. Failure to signal a turn into a lot is grounds for such a stop.

2) You are not compelled to answer any questions beyond establishing your pedigree.( Who you are.)

3) Never give an officer permission to search your car. You may not resist if he does so but never give permission.

4) Do not resist arrest. You will not win this fight and you will bring upon you mucho problemas. Lawyers were created for the puprpose of initiating lawsuits aganst perrennial rookie of the year winners.

5) When stopped stay buckled into seat. Roll down windows and put dome light and hazards on. If pulling off road pull off as far as safely possible. Remove keys from ignition and put them on the dash. Put your hands palm upwards on the steering wheel. Always make sure your your license and registration are in a visible and accessible place when driving. If you are carrying a firearm please follow your statesd laws in making announcements of its presence to an officer. Never make any untoward movements or expose a firearmm as it is a good way to get yourself shot and possiblty killed. I make it a policy to tell the officer I am licensed, carrying, and ask for his instructions.


6) Terry v. Ohio
392 U.S. 1 (1968), argued 12 Dec. 1967, decided 10 June 1968 by vote of 8 to 1; Warren for the Court, Harlan, black, and White concurring, Douglas in dissent. For years police have engaged in an investigative practice commonly referred to as stop and frisk, involving the stopping of a suspicious person or vehicle for purposes of interrogation or other brief investigation, sometimes accompanied by a patting down of the clothing of the suspect to ensure that the person was not armed. Terry was the first in a now‐substantial line of Supreme Court cases recognizing stop and frisk as a valid practice.

In Terry, a policeman became suspicious of two men when one of them walked up the street, peered into a store, walked on, started back, looked into the same store, and then conferred with his companion. The other suspect repeated this ritual, and between them the two men went through this performance about a dozen times before following a third man up the street. The officer, thinking they were “casing” a stickup and might be armed, confronted the men, asked their names and patted them down, thereby discovering pistols on Terry and his companion. In affirming Terry's conviction for carrying a concealed weapon, the Supreme Court concluded that “where a police officer observes unusual conduct which leads him reasonably to conclude in light of his experience that criminal activity may be afoot and that the person with whom he is dealing may be armed and presently dangerous, where in the course of investigating this behavior he identifies himself as a policeman and makes reasonable inquiries, … he is entitled for the protection of himself and others in the area to conduct a carefully limited search of the outer clothing of such persons in an attempt to discover weapons which might be used to assault him” (p. 30).

This rather cautious holding fell short of resolving all the important legal issues surrounding this practice; many were ultimately answered in subsequent decisions. But Terry did settle two fundamental points: stop and frisk neither falls outside the Fourth Amendment nor is subject to the usual Fourth Amendment restraints. In rejecting “the notions that the Fourth Amendment does not come into play at all as a limitation upon police conduct if the officers stop short of something called a ‘technical arrest’ or a ‘full‐blown search’” (p. 19), the Court wisely concluded that the protections of the Fourth Amendment are not subject to verbal manipulation. It is the reasonableness of the officer's conduct, not what the state chooses to call it, that counts.

In concluding that a stop and frisk does not require probable cause, the Court in Terry explained that because the policeman had acted without a warrant his conduct was not to be judged by the Fourth Amendment's Warrant Clause (which contains an express “probable cause” requirement) but rather “by the Fourth Amendment's general proscription against unreasonable searches and seizures” (p. 20). Dissenting Justice William O. Douglas objected that the majority had held, contrary to earlier rulings of the Court, “that the police have greater authority to make a ‘seizure’ and conduct a ‘search’ than a judge has to authorize such action” (p. 36). Douglas was correct in this, but his point casts into question only some of the reasoning in Terry, not the result.

The Terry result is grounded in the balancing test of Camara v. Municipal Court (1967), which the Court quoted and specifically relied upon. Camara, which concerned the grounds needed to obtain a warrant to conduct a housing inspection, quite clearly involved the Warrant Clause of the Fourth Amendment and its probable cause requirement. Yet the Court adopted a significantly lower probable cause standard for such warrants than is typically required to satisfy the Fourth Amendment, and it did so by “balancing the need to search against the invasion which the search entails” (p. 537). It thus makes sense to view Terry as a case in which probable cause is required, albeit a lesser quantum of probable cause than is ordinarily needed to justify Fourth Amendment activity because the intrusion into privacy and freedom is quite limited and the law enforcement interest being served is substantial.

Under the search part of the Terry doctrine, policy may pat down the detained suspect on reasonable suspicion that the suspect is armed and may then remove any object from the suspect's clothing that by its size or density might be a weapon. An object so discovered is admissible in evidence whether it turns out to be a gun or something else seizable as contraband or evidence; in Michigan v. Long (1983), the Court rejected the notion that to ensure against pretext frisks only weapons should be admissible. (Long also holds, by rather strained logic, that the protective search allowed by Terry may extend to the passenger compartment of a vehicle to which the suspect has access.)

Remember an unscrupulous officer may "flake" you.(Plant contraband on your person or in your vehicle. Your word against his you know!) Fortunately that is generally the rare exception rather than the rule.

7) Ask the officer if you may leave or if you are under arrest. If you can't leave you are effectively under arrest. You do not have to be read Miranda Rights in order ot be arrested.

8) If you are arrested say nothing. You cannot be convicted for what you don't say. Talking to experienced detectives could have you confessing to the Lindbergh Baby kidnapping. I want to have an attorney ends all converstaions. Period.

Remember that most cops are fairly decent guys and this yahoo is one who gives everyone else a bad name. Cops, contrary to some peoples notions are grenerally the good guys. This Officer should have acted like aprofessional and not like an idiot in a highschool hallway fight.

Just my .02 cents and now I exit the soap box!
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Old 11-20-07, 11:32 PM   #16
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Kid was looking for trouble, and he found it. When I was a teen aged driver (and this is a 20 year old, not a teenager) I had plenty of opportunities to interact with cops. Doesn't take brilliance to not start some crap with a cop.

Cop was out of line, but this kid was looking for trouble. He instigated it, he fostered it, and he harvested it.

2 a.m. in a commuter lot with a camera mounted. Looking for trouble, period.
Yeah, cops never do that sort of thing

That man doesn't deserve the badge he wears...
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Old 11-20-07, 11:41 PM   #17
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Professional behavior is what one should expect from an officer.

1)License and registration please. A police officer is well within his rights to ask for these and you must produce them. Failure to signal a turn into a lot is grounds for such a stop.
One thing I must point out, most states do not have stop and ID laws. Unless you've done something to get pulled over, or unless a cop has reasonable suspicion you've committed a crime, there is no legal reason to give a cop your personal information. They have a right to ask, but no right to demand outside of those situations. They don't need it for any reason other than being nosy.
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Old 11-21-07, 12:47 AM   #18
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Old 11-21-07, 12:54 AM   #19
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Kid was looking for trouble, and he found it. When I was a teen aged driver (and this is a 20 year old, not a teenager) I had plenty of opportunities to interact with cops. Doesn't take brilliance to not start some crap with a cop.

Cop was out of line, but this kid was looking for trouble. He instigated it, he fostered it, and he harvested it.

2 a.m. in a commuter lot with a camera mounted. Looking for trouble, period.
The cop was looking for trouble too, and don't forget that he threatened to create false charges. The guy sounded like Farva from Supertroopers with his "Come on boy! Give me some more love!" Not to mention the cop was supposedly out of his jurisdiction, although that's a questionable claim.
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Old 11-21-07, 01:50 AM   #20
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I would of video taped the cops face. Oh welllllllllll.
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Old 11-21-07, 03:27 AM   #21
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Kid was looking for trouble, and he found it. When I was a teen aged driver (and this is a 20 year old, not a teenager) I had plenty of opportunities to interact with cops. Doesn't take brilliance to not start some crap with a cop.

Cop was out of line, but this kid was looking for trouble. He instigated it, he fostered it, and he harvested it.

2 a.m. in a commuter lot with a camera mounted. Looking for trouble, period.
more or less correct, but the cop was supposedly a paid professional, and snapped pretty much from the get go.

doesn't matter, he's no longer a cop.

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Old 11-21-07, 04:57 AM   #22
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You need to watch the video again... He did signal the turn thus the stop is invalid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PATH View Post
Professional behavior is what one should expprect from an officer.

1)License and registration please. A police officer is well within his rights to ask for these and you must produce them.
Failure to signal a turn into a lot is grounds for such a stop.

2) You are not compelled to answer any questions beyond establishing your pedigree.( Who you are.)

3) Never give an officer permission to search your car. You may not resist if he does so but never give permission.

4) Do not resist arrest. You will not win this fight and you will bring upon you mucho problemas. Lawyers were created for the puprpose of initiating lawsuits aganst perrennial rookie of the year winners.

5) When stopped stay buckled into seat. Roll down windows and put dome light and hazards on. If pulling off road pull off as far as safely possible. Remove keys from ignition and put them on the dash. Put your hands palm upwards on the steering wheel. Always make sure your your license and registration are in a visible and accessible place when driving. If you are carrying a firearm please follow your statesd laws in making announcements of its presence to an officer. Never make any untoward movements or expose a firearmm as it is a good way to get yourself shot and possiblty killed. I make it a policy to tell the officer I am licensed, carrying, and ask for his instructions.



6) Terry v. Ohio
392 U.S. 1 (1968), argued 12 Dec. 1967, decided 10 June 1968 by vote of 8 to 1; Warren for the Court, Harlan, black, and White concurring, Douglas in dissent. For years police have engaged in an investigative practice commonly referred to as stop and frisk, involving the stopping of a suspicious person or vehicle for purposes of interrogation or other brief investigation, sometimes accompanied by a patting down of the clothing of the suspect to ensure that the person was not armed. Terry was the first in a now‐substantial line of Supreme Court cases recognizing stop and frisk as a valid practice.

In Terry, a policeman became suspicious of two men when one of them walked up the street, peered into a store, walked on, started back, looked into the same store, and then conferred with his companion. The other suspect repeated this ritual, and between them the two men went through this performance about a dozen times before following a third man up the street. The officer, thinking they were “casing” a stickup and might be armed, confronted the men, asked their names and patted them down, thereby discovering pistols on Terry and his companion. In affirming Terry's conviction for carrying a concealed weapon, the Supreme Court concluded that “where a police officer observes unusual conduct which leads him reasonably to conclude in light of his experience that criminal activity may be afoot and that the person with whom he is dealing may be armed and presently dangerous, where in the course of investigating this behavior he identifies himself as a policeman and makes reasonable inquiries, … he is entitled for the protection of himself and others in the area to conduct a carefully limited search of the outer clothing of such persons in an attempt to discover weapons which might be used to assault him” (p. 30).

This rather cautious holding fell short of resolving all the important legal issues surrounding this practice; many were ultimately answered in subsequent decisions. But Terry did settle two fundamental points: stop and frisk neither falls outside the Fourth Amendment nor is subject to the usual Fourth Amendment restraints. In rejecting “the notions that the Fourth Amendment does not come into play at all as a limitation upon police conduct if the officers stop short of something called a ‘technical arrest’ or a ‘full‐blown search’” (p. 19), the Court wisely concluded that the protections of the Fourth Amendment are not subject to verbal manipulation. It is the reasonableness of the officer's conduct, not what the state chooses to call it, that counts.

In concluding that a stop and frisk does not require probable cause, the Court in Terry explained that because the policeman had acted without a warrant his conduct was not to be judged by the Fourth Amendment's Warrant Clause (which contains an express “probable cause” requirement) but rather “by the Fourth Amendment's general proscription against unreasonable searches and seizures” (p. 20). Dissenting Justice William O. Douglas objected that the majority had held, contrary to earlier rulings of the Court, “that the police have greater authority to make a ‘seizure’ and conduct a ‘search’ than a judge has to authorize such action” (p. 36). Douglas was correct in this, but his point casts into question only some of the reasoning in Terry, not the result.

The Terry result is grounded in the balancing test of Camara v. Municipal Court (1967), which the Court quoted and specifically relied upon. Camara, which concerned the grounds needed to obtain a warrant to conduct a housing inspection, quite clearly involved the Warrant Clause of the Fourth Amendment and its probable cause requirement. Yet the Court adopted a significantly lower probable cause standard for such warrants than is typically required to satisfy the Fourth Amendment, and it did so by “balancing the need to search against the invasion which the search entails” (p. 537). It thus makes sense to view Terry as a case in which probable cause is required, albeit a lesser quantum of probable cause than is ordinarily needed to justify Fourth Amendment activity because the intrusion into privacy and freedom is quite limited and the law enforcement interest being served is substantial.

Under the search part of the Terry doctrine, policy may pat down the detained suspect on reasonable suspicion that the suspect is armed and may then remove any object from the suspect's clothing that by its size or density might be a weapon. An object so discovered is admissible in evidence whether it turns out to be a gun or something else seizable as contraband or evidence; in Michigan v. Long (1983), the Court rejected the notion that to ensure against pretext frisks only weapons should be admissible. (Long also holds, by rather strained logic, that the protective search allowed by Terry may extend to the passenger compartment of a vehicle to which the suspect has access.)

Remember an unscrupulous officer may "flake" you.(Plant contraband on your person or in your vehicle. Your word against his you know!) Fortunately that is generally the rare exception rather than the rule.

7) Ask the officer if you may leave or if you are under arrest. If you can't leave you are effectively under arrest. You do not have to be read Miranda Rights in order ot be arrested.

8) If you are arrested say nothing. You cannot be convicted for what you don't say. Talking to experienced detectives could have you confessing to the Lindbergh Baby kidnapping. I want to have an attorney ends all converstaions. Period.

Remember that most cops are fairly decent guys and this yahoo is one who gives everyone else a bad name. Cops, contrary to some peoples notions are grenerally the good guys. This Officer should have acted like aprofessional and not like an idiot in a highschool hallway fight.

Just my .02 cents and now I exit the soap box!
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Old 11-21-07, 05:14 AM   #23
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That is odd. Our cops are a little more like this....

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Old 11-21-07, 05:16 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Stacey View Post
You need to watch the video again... He did signal the turn thus the stop is invalid.
I'm not so sure. He did signal a right turn, which the cop kept going on about how he didn't signal a right turn. However I've watched the first few seconds quite a few time and best I can determine, the right turn was onto what appears to be an access or side road, not the lot itself. It looks like he makes a left into the lot with his right turn signal still flashing.

This makes a valid stop. Being in a commuter lot at 2 a.m. can very reasonably be called suspicious activity.

I agree completely that the cop became overbearing very quickly, but he did not create the problem.

For those with the "cops are pigs" attitude, it's no wonder you have issues with them. I feel pretty much the same way about liberals though, so I guess we all have our unreasonable prejudices, eh?
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Old 11-21-07, 05:27 AM   #25
Stacey
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Watch it again. He signals for the right, exicutes the right turn, swashes over the road a bit, the his left hand drops from the top of the wheel to tun the left indicator on, then exicutes the left turn.

The kid is by the book.
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