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Old 01-15-08, 07:58 PM   #1
jhota
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3rd degree burns are fun!

well, not really. i didn't realize how bad it was (though very small - slightly less than 1/4" in any direction), although perhaps the fact it stopped hurting almost immediately should have been a clue.

that, and i'm getting a little tired of welding over my head.

what am i doing, you may ask?

i'm rebuilding a 1967 Jaguar 420G that needs a huge amount of structural repair. because i'm afraid my Honda is going to fall apart on me while going down the road - the doors flap as i drive down the interstate. seriously.

so i thought some of the gearheads here ('cause i know there's a few) might like to see some pictures...

first step, i had to get the engine out. it was locked up (even though the car has covered less than 18k miles in 40 years), and i knew it needed triage before i got too deep in the project.

here i am, losing my mind trying to connect the engine leveler:



once it was connected, it was almost like i knew what i was doing. almost.



so, got the engine out and torn down. found it was in really good shape, considering. the head gasket had rotted and allowed the cylinders to fill with water. by the time i had the head and pan off, i'd broken the frozen rings loose. bearings look new (no surprise, given the low mileage). i've even found pencil-written notes on parts from the original engine build 40 years ago! the engine will be upgraded slightly when rebuilt (i'm adding things like valve stem seals and late-model camshafts).

but before i build the engine, i need somewhere to put it. so i had to start body repairs.

these cars are monocoques, which mean that they don't have a separate frame: there's a stub frame (which had mostly rotted away on this car), and the outer sills form a structural box (which had also rotted out). and the floor pans are fubar as well. adding insult to injury, none of the sheet metal is available, so i have to fabricate everything...

look! see-through floor pan:



you can't see it in that shot, but the outer side and rear edge of the pan are gone. since the pan is a structural element with the sill and subframe, this is a big problem...

new frame rail and outrigger i built under the driver's side (this is how i managed to burn myself):



some of the scary rot i've got to fix on the rear:



and yes, that's where the rear trailing arm attaches...

but it'll be a fun (and pretty) ride when i'm done:



still got the original plates, too:



just wanted to share...

(and ***** about the burn, too...)
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Old 01-15-08, 08:02 PM   #2
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Best of luck and kudos and all that, but doesn't rebuilding a decaying 1967 Jaguar seem like a very, very hard way to obtain reliable transportation?

I mean, it wasn't like 1967 Jaguars were all that reliable when even they were new.
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Old 01-15-08, 08:02 PM   #3
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Good god, Man, you need to find new subframe elements badly! You can weld in sections as "caps" to repair that structural rot, but you're in for a ton of work.

PS: If you are rebuilding it out of love for the car, good on ya! If you are rebuilding it for transportation though, in the long run, it's going to be far cheaper to buy a new car.
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Old 01-15-08, 08:04 PM   #4
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You're a braver man than I. A tiny rust hole, even on a car where replacement panels are readily available, would most likely cause me to run screaming into the night. The pictures above are beyond the beyond.

Not a huge fan of Jaguars in general, but the model you have there is a classy thing, for sure. It'll look great when it's all done up.
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Old 01-15-08, 08:04 PM   #5
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Noone can complain about burns unless you are burnt all over like someone I know. Trust me. I said something about getting a small burn then he just looked at me.
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Old 01-15-08, 08:06 PM   #6
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You need this link bad!

http://www.jaggraveyard.com/
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Old 01-15-08, 08:17 PM   #7
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Best of luck and kudos and all that, but doesn't rebuilding a decaying 1967 Jaguar seem like a very, very hard way to obtain reliable transportation?

I mean, it wasn't like 1967 Jaguars were all that reliable when even they were new.
well, yeah. but if it was easy what would be the point? and old Jags are just as reliable as any old car, really. more so than most, to tell the truth.

it helps that i'm a Jaguar mechanic by profession, too. well, Jag and Rolls-Royce. and Triumph. and... well, never mind.

but they really are very good cars - we've got several customers who use cars this old as daily drivers.

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Good god, Man, you need to find new subframe elements badly! You can weld in sections as "caps" to repair that structural rot, but you're in for a ton of work.

PS: If you are rebuilding it out of love for the car, good on ya! If you are rebuilding it for transportation though, in the long run, it's going to be far cheaper to buy a new car.
no sheet metal is available, with the exception of some leftovers from the factory's original production runs. and yeah, i kinda knew what i was asking for when i started. but it keeps me off the street at night...

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You're a braver man than I. A tiny rust hole, even on a car where replacement panels are readily available, would most likely cause me to run screaming into the night. The pictures above are beyond the beyond.

Not a huge fan of Jaguars in general, but the model you have there is a classy thing, for sure. It'll look great when it's all done up.
one man's bravery is another man's psychosis...
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Old 01-15-08, 08:29 PM   #8
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Where are the burn pics/ All I saw were pics of a rusted Jaguar.

Someday, (read this to mean when I do not have school age kids) I would love to rebuild a car. One that does not need massive amounts of metal work though.
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Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.
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Old 01-15-08, 08:54 PM   #9
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I'll do some digging around. I have some friends that are heavily into restoration and might be able to find you a custom fabricator for subframe assemblies, as that's really your only option. It WILL be expensive though, and if you send off to Jaguar, you might be able to get copies of the engineering drawings to make them yourself cheaper.

A thought you might want to keep in mind though.....

The car is pretty far gone. You'll never, ever, ever recover all the money you are going to put into it.
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Old 01-15-08, 09:00 PM   #10
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one man's bravery is another man's psychosis...
Indeed.

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The car is pretty far gone. You'll never, ever, ever recover all the money you are going to put into it.
So? Not everything is about turning a profit, you know.
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Old 01-15-08, 09:01 PM   #11
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Indeed.

So? Not everything is about turning a profit, you know.
See my prior post, about restoration for the love of the car.....

I was just reminding about the other side. If I give advice or suggestions, I cover bases and point out both the pros and cons
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Old 01-15-08, 09:07 PM   #12
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i've already rebuilt one subframe... i don't need to hire anybody to do it!

this is the kind of stuff i do at work (though at work it tends to look a bit prettier, as i've got a nicer setup there).

i'm just doing it at home on my own time, 'cause i think it's fun. and i'm looking forward to having a different car again. i mean, how many people have a 17-foot long, right hand drive vintage Jaguar as their daily ride?

as for recouping my "investment," i've got less than $200 in the entire car so far. that, and i'm not doing it for any financial gain. it's a hobby! i don't ride my bike for financial gain, either...
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Old 01-15-08, 09:09 PM   #13
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Fair enough....doing it for the love then, so have at and enjoy I hope the car comes out well in excess of your goals for her and is a dream car
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Old 01-15-08, 09:11 PM   #14
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See my prior post, about restoration for the love of the car.....

I was just reminding about the other side. If I give advice or suggestions, I cover bases and point out both the pros and cons
Sorry, I see a lot of people with "What's the point? You'll never make any money off of it!" attitudes, and it bugs me. The type of person who looks at the possibility of monetary gain in everything they and others do, as if money and profit is the most important thing in the world, and that the pursuit of such is all that matters.
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Old 01-15-08, 09:23 PM   #15
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One thing with Jag's their electrical systems suck. So don't be surprised if you have to rewire the whole car.
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Old 01-15-08, 09:28 PM   #16
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Heh. Lucas for the win!
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Old 01-15-08, 09:31 PM   #17
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One thing with Jag's their electrical systems suck. So don't be surprised if you have to rewire the whole car.
uhm, no. they don't.

ham-fisted Americans who don't understand Jaguar electrical systems (or how to read a wiring diagram) who then butcher those electrical systems create electrical systems that suck. for example, they use IGC fuses, not American AGC fuses - using AGC fuses can and will fry sections of the wiring harness. this is not the fault of the system - this is the fault of the ignorant mechanic using the incorrect part.

there's really nothing wrong with the basic system.
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Old 01-15-08, 09:50 PM   #18
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Heh. Lucas for the win!
Segway to my favorite English joke, OK, my only English joke:

Why do the English drink warm beer?
Lucas refrigerators.

One of my favorite movie quotes from The Gumball Rally about an E-Type "Beautiful car. I wish it ran."

When I was younger I worked in a resortation shop. I worked on an alloy-body 120, a steel-body 120, a series 1 E-Type and, the best for last, a C-Type. I keep in touch with those guys and would be happy to pass on any questions or needs if you have any.

Edit: I forgot, when I was first learning to weld and cut steel, I was cutting a thick plate with my Chuck Taylors on. As a noob, you get large drops of molten steel which landed on my foot and burned through the canvas and into my foot. I stamped my foot in vain while the hardened but still red-hot steel rolled down the top of my foot. It did make kind of a cool looking scar.

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Old 01-15-08, 09:55 PM   #19
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oh, there's so many good Lucas jokes.

Have you ever seen a Lucas three-position headlight switch?
The settings are "off," "flicker" and "dim."

Did you know Lucas invented the intermittent windscreen wiper?
Yeah - it was unintentional.

Actual ad slogan: Lucas Vacuum Cleaners - They Really Suck!

(sidenote: the real reason British mechanics drink warm beer is because the shop fridge is where they keep the gudgeon pins, which have to be chilled for installation.)
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Old 01-15-08, 09:55 PM   #20
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uhm, no. they don't.

ham-fisted Americans who don't understand Jaguar electrical systems (or how to read a wiring diagram) who then butcher those electrical systems create electrical systems that suck. for example, they use IGC fuses, not American AGC fuses - using AGC fuses can and will fry sections of the wiring harness. this is not the fault of the system - this is the fault of the ignorant mechanic using the incorrect part.

there's really nothing wrong with the basic system.

I re-did a jaguar's electrical system to a T using the wiring diagram, and still had an issue with the thing shorting, might have been a bad connection somewhere. But then, I'm to speak my pontiac just went through it's 4th set of switches.
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Old 01-15-08, 10:03 PM   #21
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looks like you have yourself a nice project. best of luck and post pictures!!
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Old 01-15-08, 10:48 PM   #22
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WOW VERY AMBITIOUS!!!! Very good for you though. Good luck!!!!
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Old 01-16-08, 04:46 AM   #23
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I respect someone who can keep a vintage Jag running.

I've seen Jaguar owner frustration (before Jag was bought by Ford) come out in odd ways. For example, a neighbor where I used to live got fed up with having to rebuild his car's V12 yet again, he literally left it on plywood for the trash men to pick up, got a Chevy 350, and plopped it in there. Apparently, it worked well, as that car was driven for 5-7 years until I moved away.
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Old 01-16-08, 08:49 AM   #24
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MORE BURN PICS plz

forget the car, lets see the hamburger
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Old 01-16-08, 06:47 PM   #25
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MORE BURN PICS plz

forget the car, lets see the hamburger
it's not very exciting. smaller than a dime. looks like a bad cigarette burn, really.
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