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Thread: Raw Milk

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    la vache fantôme phantomcow2's Avatar
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    Raw Milk

    Discussion with some of the employees where I work, many of whom have been drinking raw milk their entire lives, has piqued an interest in trying some for myself. Do you or have you tried raw milk? What are your thoughts? I found a directory of raw milk sellers in NH, and have settled on this one (because it's closest):
    http://www.brookfordfarm.com/index.html

    Tomorrow, I'll give it a go .
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    Raw (unpasteurized) milk is very nutritional. It developes "good" cholesterol in the body. I grew up in the country in southern Ohio and we would get it from our neighbors farm. It tasted so good. If I were to buy it I would like to see the bacteria count from the dairy farm. Fresh milk from healthy cows is quite safe.

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    la vache fantôme phantomcow2's Avatar
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    On a more philosophical level, part of the attraction of raw milk is that it is as nature intended it to be. I am, by default, skeptical of human manipulation of nature.
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantomcow2 View Post
    On a more philosophical level, part of the attraction of raw milk is that it is as nature intended it to be. I am, by default, skeptical of human manipulation of nature.
    You're quite right. The pasteurization process drastically alters the milk and makes it hard to digest. My father is 92 years old and grew up drinking that fresh milk. 92 years - not too bad if you ask me!

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    J E R S E Y S B E S T Jerseysbest's Avatar
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    Raw milk? Yeah its natural, for calves.
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    Senior Member FlyingAnchor's Avatar
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    I grew up with it also and I have to say the flavor is so good, but today I drink soymilk in vanilla. I have even skimmed the cream off the top and used it in cereal.

    Oh well, can't go backwards.

    Steven
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    Senior Member deraltekluge's Avatar
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    It's total nonsense. Don't do it.
    On a more philosophical level, part of the attraction of raw milk is that it is as nature intended it to be. I am, by default, skeptical of human manipulation of nature.
    And if we want to get into the philosophy of "natural", what's natural about an adult of one species consuming milk, a food for infants, of a different species?

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    Support JDRF b_young's Avatar
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    I get a couple of gallons a month from a neighbor. The main thing is making sure the utter stays clean then there is no need for pasteurization. It takes a little getting use to. You cannot get all the curd off of it so you can get some small chunks every once in a while. Another good product is fresh butter. You only need a Mason jar and about 15 minutes of shaking.
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    Raw meat is also as nature intended. Go for it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by b_young View Post
    I get a couple of gallons a month from a neighbor. The main thing is making sure the utter stays clean then there is no need for pasteurization. It takes a little getting use to. You cannot get all the curd off of it so you can get some small chunks every once in a while. Another good product is fresh butter. You only need a Mason jar and about 15 minutes of shaking.
    The problem with raw milk is just like raw meat -- your health and chance of getting a foodborne disease depends who harvests and packages it... and unless you are buying from someone you know, I just don't trust most of them out there.

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    Banned. timmyquest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deraltekluge View Post
    And if we want to get into the philosophy of "natural", what's natural about an adult of one species consuming milk, a food for infants, of a different species?
    Quit being so logical...this is philosophy we're talking about here.

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    Banned. red house's Avatar
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    Yeah, innovations like 'pasteurisation' were really intended to benefit 'intelligent ppl' ..



    so by all means, drink up.

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    Senior Member AnthonyG's Avatar
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    Raw milk is fantastic produce. The only problem with getting raw milk is that once you've had it you won't want to go back to the other rubbish that gets called milk.

    Humans have a long history of consuming unpasteurized dairy produce and I think that its been vital to our health for many generations. Its been the most important source of animal protein, fats and nutrients in populations that consume very little meat for eons. This raw milk produce has many nutrients that are destroyed by pasteurization.

    The pasteurization process is a sledgehammer to crack a walnut. The problem is a lack of sanitary conditions in which to raise animals. The solution is to let them free range on pasture and take care and exercise basic hygiene when milking. Pasteurization is a cheap but harmful fix that is promoted with paranoia, not science.

    Regards, Anthony

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    Third World Layabout crtreedude's Avatar
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    I frequently take raw milk and just leave it outside of refrigeration overnight till it sours. This is called Leche Agria here - sort of like buttermilk, but a bit lighter. Wonderful stuff and pretty much deals with stomach issues I have at times - much like yogurt.

    Of course the milk is from our own cows done my way. Nothing like having control.

    Given my life, it isn't raw milk that is going to kill me off. My guess is the 20 foot boa that wanders around the property - or have I been watching anaconda too much? (the boa is real, but she rarely visits)

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    la vache fantôme phantomcow2's Avatar
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    Okay, we can hyperbolize my nature statement here.
    I just bought some. Apparently this farm, in order to maintain their license to sell raw milk, needs to send in a sample to a lab to test for bacteria levels. This is on a monthly basis, and regulated by the state.

    I bought a half gallon of milk, and a jar of yogurt. Well this is, by far, the best tasting milk I have ever tasted. Initially, the taste isn't as different as I would have thought, but I find it has a "1 second after" taste, which is better. Also, it's A LOT creamier. This is just great. Also, it comes in glass jars, which can be returned for a refund.
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    la vache fantôme phantomcow2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
    Raw milk is fantastic produce. The only problem with getting raw milk is that once you've had it you won't want to go back to the other rubbish that gets called milk.

    Humans have a long history of consuming unpasteurized dairy produce and I think that its been vital to our health for many generations. Its been the most important source of animal protein, fats and nutrients in populations that consume very little meat for eons. This raw milk produce has many nutrients that are destroyed by pasteurization.

    The pasteurization process is a sledgehammer to crack a walnut. The problem is a lack of sanitary conditions in which to raise animals. The solution is to let them free range on pasture and take care and exercise basic hygiene when milking. Pasteurization is a cheap but harmful fix that is promoted with paranoia, not science.

    Regards, Anthony
    Indeed, the guy was mentioning all sorts of biological benefits to raw milk. In short, it sounds like the bad reputation raw milk has acquired is not a result of the cow, which does not natively have the bacteria which causes illness, instead it is caused by poor sanitation practice on the part of the farmer.
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    Hazardous Taerom's Avatar
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    Shouldn't you be drinking "phantom milk"?

    ok, that was lame...

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    tired donnamb's Avatar
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    Raw milk is never going to replaced pasteurized when you have a large population of people who drink milk. It was industrialization and the resulting teeming masses in cities that made it necessary in the first place. According to the USDA, 30% of all food poisoning in the US comes from tainted dairy and of that number, 70% is from unpasteurized dairy products.

    But I also don't think the answer is outlawing raw dairy products. As has been suggested, dairies that sell raw milk must maintain higher cleanliness standards than dairies that don't. I have also heard that the physical health of the cows is far more important when the milk does not get pasteurized. It seems reasonable to me to simply have a different license with more rigorous inspection for dairies that sell unpasteurized. Also, requiring warning labels at the point of sale would be ok with me, too. The fact is, if you are pregnant or immune-compromised, you might be better off not taking the risk.

    I can't get raw milk, butter, yogurt, or any cheese that hasn't been aged for less than 60 days here in Oregon. There's some super-secret underground network of farms and customers but you basically have to be a relative to even get the slightest bit of information on it. I've known people for years who still won't tell me where they get their raw dairy products. I'm at the point now where I don't even want to be around these people anymore. I'm so tired of their cloak-and-dagger routine.

    It's really too bad because I have a rather problematic calcium deficiency. I faithfully choke down my horse pills twice a day and still my endocrinologist wonders if I'm actually taking them since my levels remain so low. My main problem is that I'm lactose intolerant. Dairy makes me feel so miserable, I just avoid it for the most part. What I have noticed is that when I can get cheese that is made from raw milk, it's like when I was a kid eating dairy - no trouble at all. I can't eat it in huge quantities, but I can eat a serving a day. I'd really like to be able to purchase butter made from raw milk, eat yogurt again, cook with milk that won't make me sick, and maybe even enjoy cream cheese on a bagel once in a while - and happily pay more money for it. But instead of looking at raw dairies as a money-making opportunity with a more expensive license and more work for state inspectors, the State of Oregon is determined to protect me.

    Sigh.
    Last edited by donnamb; 03-29-08 at 01:33 PM.
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    POWERCRANK addict markhr's Avatar
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    If you know where it comes from and don't mind having to get it fresh DAILY then it's great.
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    POWERCRANK addict markhr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donnamb View Post
    ...My main problem is that I'm lactose intolerant...
    Does that include predigested stuff like yoghurt? As far as I'm aware you still get the Ca benefit but without having to force your body to digest straight milk.

    edit: nevermind read beyond that - you can't eat yoghurt - major bummer
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    Third World Layabout crtreedude's Avatar
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    Donna,

    And you all call yourself civilized?! You can come down here and have all the raw milk you want.

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    tired donnamb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markhr View Post
    Does that include predigested stuff like yoghurt? As far as I'm aware you still get the Ca benefit but without having to force your body to digest straight milk.

    edit: nevermind read beyond that - you can't eat yoghurt - major bummer
    I know. I can tolerate a small amount of goat yogurt (less lactose), but it would be nice to have some cow yogurt sometimes. They taste different.

    Quote Originally Posted by crtreedude View Post
    Donna,

    And you all call yourself civilized?! You can come down here and have all the raw milk you want.


    And yet, I do understand that when producing dairy for teeming masses and the cows are far away, pasteurization can be a very good thing. Plenty of people do just fine with gobbling down gallons of pasteurized dairy products every day. I'm just not one of them.
    "Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."

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    Third World Layabout crtreedude's Avatar
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    Most of our milk down here is pasteurized as well. We also have this stuff that doesn't have to be refrigerated. You see,not everyone has refrigeration, so if they don't have a cow, they can still have milk - if you call it milk of course.

    I am a bit scared of it personally...

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    Senior Member AnthonyG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donnamb View Post
    According to the USDA, 30% of all food poisoning in the US comes from tainted dairy and of that number, 70% is from unpasteurized dairy products.
    These figures are just a scam but I'm not blaming donnamb for making them up. 70% of 30% comes from RAW dairy!!! Seriously when have you EVER seen raw dairy on sale in a store?

    Seriously it beggars belief. The scam is this. If tainted milk is traced back to a certain factory then they simply assume that the pasteurization process MUST have broken down even though there is NO evidence at all that it did. Therefore you conveniently have statistics saying that unpasteurized dairy is currently causing illness when its not actually on sale (nice trick with statistics) and that pasteurized dairy is the solution when in fact what you have is clear evidence that pasteurized dairy is still tainted with a lot of harmful bacteria despite the pasteurization process and it is currently causing food bourne illness.

    Unpasteurized dairy is safer because its the native beneficial bacteria that prevents the multiplication of harmful bacteria strains.

    The debate on raw milk isn't about the facts though. Its about propaganda and staying "on message".

    Regards, Anthony
    Last edited by AnthonyG; 03-29-08 at 07:27 PM.

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    Young and unconcerned Treefox's Avatar
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    The paranoia over unpasteurised milk is something particularly American.

    So you happily put growth hormone in your beef but you freak out over the idea of unpasteurised milk? Yeah. Ok...
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