Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 96

Thread: Vegetarianism

  1. #1
    wonderer, wanderer gonesh9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    portland, or
    My Bikes
    surly crosscheck, yeti 575, salsa moto rapido, kona ute
    Posts
    1,712
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Vegetarianism

    We haven't had much discussion about this for a while, so would like to bring it back up. Pros/cons?

    Personally, I feel that the current state of animal suffering in factory farms is the single most horrible manifestation of human selfishness. I believe that to just shrug it off is to accept and support this sickening example of cruelty. If animals were still raised in acceptable conditions on family farms I wouldn't have a problem with people using them for food. The current situation, however, is that pigs are kept in a crate where they can't turn around for their entire lives. Helps them get fatter. They are never allowed to see their piglets. Chickens are crammed so close together in cages that their feet permanently curl around the wires. Their beaks are chopped off so they don't peck each other to death in these cages. Ducks, geese, and male baby calves are force fed by jamming a hose down their throat, because this makes their meat more tender. Dead pigs and cows are often left dead on the ground to rot. Pigs are tranquilized with tasers, but often still conscious when their skin is cut open. Chickens are fed a Robert Downey Jr.-like concoction of chemicals and drugs to make them lay more eggs. Male chicks are thrown into garbage bags alive, and left to suffocate. Male calves in the dairy industry are either killed or sent to the veal warehouse where they are isolated and force fed. Pigs and cows are routinely abused during transport (kicked, hit with bats, etc.) And on and on.....

    This is the reality of factory farming. Many argue that animals are in fact not equal to humans, so don't require the same amount of respect and compassion. People are entitled to their opinions, but even so, I can not comprehend how any person can accept the brutal conditions in which the animals tortured every day in factory farms have to endure.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    by a big river
    Posts
    2,459
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Would you mind if I made an attempt to convert you to my religion? Or perhaps I should make a bid to make you share my political world view? What about the horrid conditions in which vegetables are forced to live out their miserable existence? They are forced to live their lives wallowing in dirt and manure...

  3. #3
    Knight Rider SirSpinsalot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Monroe, Georgia
    My Bikes
    CAAD 3 Cannondale MTB, CAAD4 Roadbike.
    Posts
    118
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    While I agree that farming nowadays is not the same as it was 50 years ago you have to account for the fact that there is huge pressure to deliver massive quantities of food to the public.

    I imagine that things could be better but you must also consider the price of food and what distributors and retailers are willing to pay for it.

    I do not presume to know the answers but still have to take these things into consideration.
    Basher of trees and going downhill in distress.

  4. #4
    Traffic shark
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    California
    My Bikes
    2 fixies, 1 road, 29er in the works.
    Posts
    4,612
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by gonesh9
    Personally, I feel that the current state of animal suffering in factory farms is the single most horrible manifestation of human selfishness. I believe that to just shrug it off is to accept and support this sickening example of cruelty.
    I believe that what your saying is correct, and the best way to support it is by not eating meat, thus decreasing the demand.

    However, I enjoy the taste, and there are things that should have more attentioned paid to them than the plight of animals. Feelings or not, they are subhuman, and don't have the same basic rights.

    In the hierarchy of concern, this:

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/africa....ap/index.html

    Is more something I loose sleep on than the plight of chickens on a farm. The actions of people on other people are far more in humane, and deserve far more attention.
    Regards,
    William
    For the SD Crowd

    sdbikecommuter.com

    View from the handle bars:
    sdcyclist.blogspot.com

  5. #5
    Knight Rider SirSpinsalot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Monroe, Georgia
    My Bikes
    CAAD 3 Cannondale MTB, CAAD4 Roadbike.
    Posts
    118
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Also...

    At some point in the future I hope to have a small plot of land in order to do what my family did when I was a child.

    Have a small vegetable garden of about 4 acres.
    Have chickens , both laying hens for eggs and breeders for broilers.
    Perhaps raise a few pigs for pork or maybe even a cow for beef. We never did the milk thing but I am sure it would be worth looking into.

    We canned veggies for use in winter and had eggs year around as well as chickens to eat and the experience was rewarding. I cannot think of a more grounded and wholesome way for a young person to grow up.
    Basher of trees and going downhill in distress.

  6. #6
    Jungle lady cbhungry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia
    My Bikes
    gary fisher cake
    Posts
    849
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's awful they treat pigs like that since they are more intelligent than dogs. If we treated dogs like that, there would be an uproar. I personally eat very little meat though I am not a vegetarian, preferring fish most of all. I think I am going to get organic, farm raised eggs but I am not sure if their conditions are better. Would you know Gonesh? In addition,I do know they sell meat from cows that graze but it is more expensive.
    Ride forever, work whenever.
    XX power
    Eat more mud, mountain bike 'till you die!

    http://www.pnhp.org/

  7. #7
    Knight Rider SirSpinsalot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Monroe, Georgia
    My Bikes
    CAAD 3 Cannondale MTB, CAAD4 Roadbike.
    Posts
    118
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    William, did you read the article in a recent National Geographic about slavery? It was a real eye opener as well.

    We just do not know how lucky we are to be in a position to be so worried about how poorly a chicken is treated for its 6-8 weeks before it becomes food.

    We are indeed spoiled and clueless as a nation.

    While there are millions of people in this world not knowing if the next day will be the last due to starvation or civil war the Americans are pouting over the poor animals they eat in bulk never missing a meal every day.
    Basher of trees and going downhill in distress.

  8. #8
    Traffic shark
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    California
    My Bikes
    2 fixies, 1 road, 29er in the works.
    Posts
    4,612
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MKRG
    They are forced to live their lives wallowing in dirt and manure...
    Have you seen how pigs live in the wild?
    Regards,
    William
    For the SD Crowd

    sdbikecommuter.com

    View from the handle bars:
    sdcyclist.blogspot.com

  9. #9
    Traffic shark
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    California
    My Bikes
    2 fixies, 1 road, 29er in the works.
    Posts
    4,612
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by SirSpinsalot
    William, did you read the article in a recent National Geographic about slavery? It was a real eye opener as well.

    We just do not know how lucky we are to be in a position to be so worried about how poorly a chicken is treated for its 6-8 weeks before it becomes food.

    We are indeed spoiled and clueless as a nation.

    While there are millions of people in this world not knowing if the next day will be the last due to starvation or civil war the Americans are pouting over the poor animals they eat in bulk never missing a meal every day.
    And I'm here comlaining about the rise in the price of tri tip (up to 6.79 a pound) and jumping up and down about the drop in the price of french wine..

    Makes me pause for a minute. We are spoiled and I wouldn't say clueless, I'd rather say caloused and blissfully ignorant.
    Regards,
    William
    For the SD Crowd

    sdbikecommuter.com

    View from the handle bars:
    sdcyclist.blogspot.com

  10. #10
    Knight Rider SirSpinsalot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Monroe, Georgia
    My Bikes
    CAAD 3 Cannondale MTB, CAAD4 Roadbike.
    Posts
    118
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by William Karsten
    Makes me pause for a minute. We are spoiled and I wouldn't say clueless, I'd rather say caloused and blissfully ignorant.

    Absolutely.

    During my travels in the Army I actually got to witness some of the worlds atrocious living conditions first hand. I am talking about people living marginally better if any better than the animals in commercial farms.

    People who were damn tough because if they were not they would die. Much like very early Americans in the 18th and 19th centuries.

    Now we worry about our hair, our next ice cream cone, our car being dirty, and what color we should paint the dogs toenails.
    Basher of trees and going downhill in distress.

  11. #11
    wonderer, wanderer gonesh9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    portland, or
    My Bikes
    surly crosscheck, yeti 575, salsa moto rapido, kona ute
    Posts
    1,712
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MKRG
    Would you mind if I made an attempt to convert you to my religion? Or perhaps I should make a bid to make you share my political world view? What about the horrid conditions in which vegetables are forced to live out their miserable existence? They are forced to live their lives wallowing in dirt and manure...
    Where did you get that I'm attempting to convert you to anything? All I did was raise the issue, provided information, and asked for thoughts, pro or con. In fact, I try to make a strong effort not to push it on people. As for the horrid condition which vegetables are forced to live, I agree, although dirt and manure are natural, healthy environments for them in which they thrive. I don't like how we ruin their dirt by infesting it with chemicals, though. The reason I'm more concerned with the conditions which animals have to live is that to me, there is a clearer form of suffering in factory animal farms than vegetable fields.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Karsten
    Feelings or not, they are subhuman, and don't have the same basic rights.
    This is your opinion, which is fine. My opinion is that animals may not necessarily need the same basic rights as people, but do not deserve to be treated the way they currently are. In fact, I believe that humans were given a stewardship role over animals and those living beings which are weaker than us, which makes it our duty to protect them.

    Quote Originally Posted by cbhungry
    It's awful they treat pigs like that since they are more intelligent than dogs. If we treated dogs like that, there would be an uproar....I think I am going to get organic, farm raised eggs but I am not sure if their conditions are better. Would you know Gonesh? In addition,I do know they sell meat from cows that graze but it is more expensive.
    I agree that dogs are given much more basic rights than other animals such as pigs, simply because of our connection to them. The average pig has the same I.Q. as a 4 year old human. They have been found to experience fear, pain, loss, anger, and jealousy the same as a 4 year old.
    As for organic, "free-range" eggs, yes, many of their conditions are better than factory farmed eggs, although free range just means not couped up in cages. Many of these farms still cram their walls with as many chickens as will fit, but at least they are allowed to move around. Many of the same practices take place in these farms as in the major factory farms. I have heard that there are some companies that take great care to provide livable conditions for their chickens, but don't know which ones those are.

  12. #12
    The Cycle of Life Turbonium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Ottawa, Kanukistan
    My Bikes
    Trek 520, Eclipse Carbon, Eclipse Al, Unknown Fixie.
    Posts
    414
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Arrogant Worms - Carrot Juice is Murder

    Listen up brothers and sisters, come hear my desperate tale
    I speak of our friends of nature, trapped in the dirt like a jail
    Vegetables live in oppresion, served on our tables each night
    The killing of veggies is madness, I say we take up the fight
    Salads are only for murderers, cole slaw's a fascist regime
    Don't think that they don't have feelings, just cuz a radish can't
    scream
    CHORUS
    I've heard the screams of the vegetables (scream scream
    scream)
    Watching their skins being peeled (Having their insides
    revealed)
    Grated and steamed with no mercy (burning off calories)
    How do you think that feels (bet it hurts really bad)
    Carrot Juice constitutes murder (and that's a real crime)
    Greenhouses prisons for slaves (let my vegetables grow)
    It's time to stop all this gardening (it's as dirty as hell)
    Let's call a spade a spade (is a spade is a spade...)
    I saw a man eating celery, so I beta him black and blue
    If he ever touches a sprout again, I'll bite him clean in two
    I'm a political prisoner trapped in a windowless cage
    Cuz I stopped the slughter of turnips by killing three men in a
    rage
    I told the judge when he sentenced me, this is my finest hour
    I'd kill those farmers again just to save one more cauliflower
    CHORUS
    How low as people do we dare to stoop
    Making young broccoli's bleed in the soup
    Untie your beans, uncage your tomatoes, let ptted plants free
    Don't mash that potatoe
    I've heard the screams of the vegetables (scream scream
    scream)
    Watching their skins being peeled (fates in the stir fry are
    sealed)
    Grated and steamed with no mercy (you fat gourmet slob)
    How do you think that feels (leave them out in the fields)
    Carrot Juice constitutes murder (V8's genocide)
    Greenhouses prisons for slaves (yes your compost's a grave)
    It's time to stop all this gardening (take up macram_)
    Let's call a spade a spade (is a spade is a spade...)
    Power to the peas
    Give peas a chance
    All we are saying is give peas a chance

  13. #13
    Traffic shark
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    California
    My Bikes
    2 fixies, 1 road, 29er in the works.
    Posts
    4,612
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by gonesh9
    The average pig has the same I.Q. as a 4 year old human. They have been found to experience fear, pain, loss, anger, and jealousy the same as a 4 year old. .
    At 4, I figured out which key opened the front door, got out, stole the nieghbors tricycle, packed lunch (from the neighbor's fridge.. it was PB&J) and rode said tricycle 2.3 miles before the police caught me. I was in a left turn lane waiting for the light. (Should have ran it).

    I'd like to say a pig do that. Course, they might be smart enough not to.



    As for the horrid condition which vegetables are forced to live, I agree, although dirt and manure are natural, healthy environments for them in which they thrive. I don't like how we ruin their dirt by infesting it with chemicals, though. The reason I'm more concerned with the conditions which animals have to live is that to me, there is a clearer form of suffering in factory animal farms than vegetable fields.
    Whoa.. are you for real?

    As for the horrid condition which vegetables are forced to live, I
    Tell me you're joking!!! C'mon!! Please!! Even (name edit cause I don't like the guy but don't want to start @#$) isn't that deluded!!
    Regards,
    William
    For the SD Crowd

    sdbikecommuter.com

    View from the handle bars:
    sdcyclist.blogspot.com

  14. #14
    wonderer, wanderer gonesh9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    portland, or
    My Bikes
    surly crosscheck, yeti 575, salsa moto rapido, kona ute
    Posts
    1,712
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by William Karsten
    I'd like to say a pig do that. Course, they might be smart enough not to.
    You're probably right. Anyhow, I believe they lack the opposable thumb.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Karsten
    Tell me you're joking!!! C'mon!! Please!! Even (name edit cause I don't like the guy but don't want to start @#$) isn't that deluded!!
    Yes, I was joking about the vegetables. What I was getting at, though, was that the "vegetables are killed, too" argument is weak, as even if they were, they aren't abused the same way animals are.

    And I can't say, I think he might be that deluded. If it's the same guy you're thinking of, I remember a post where he wanted to give someone his bike and pay for the shipping.

  15. #15
    Traffic shark
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    California
    My Bikes
    2 fixies, 1 road, 29er in the works.
    Posts
    4,612
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by gonesh9
    Yes, I was joking about the vegetables. .
    Phew. I was worried for a second.


    And I can't say, I think he might be that deluded. If it's the same guy you're thinking of, I remember a post where he wanted to give someone his bike and pay for the shipping.
    What's wrong with that.. did he give the bike away yet? If not, let me PM him..
    Regards,
    William
    For the SD Crowd

    sdbikecommuter.com

    View from the handle bars:
    sdcyclist.blogspot.com

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    by a big river
    Posts
    2,459
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sorry, it just seemed as though it was going to turn into a "you're an evil meat-eater" thread. I do not approve of the conditions in which animals are raised or slaughtered but the fact is that slaughtering an animal is slaughtering an animal. Killing is an ugly business no matter how you look at it. What I said about the miserable vegetables was an attempt at levity. I feel there are more important causes to devote my time and effort to rather than the plight of the chickens. Sorry.

  17. #17
    wonderer, wanderer gonesh9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    portland, or
    My Bikes
    surly crosscheck, yeti 575, salsa moto rapido, kona ute
    Posts
    1,712
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MKRG
    I feel there are more important causes to devote my time and effort to rather than the plight of the chickens. Sorry.
    No worries, animal issues are certainly not the only causes that need attention. I happen to have a close relationship to animals, so that is what I choose to devote my time and effort to help.

    I don't think people who eat animals are evil or uncompassionate. The atrocity is that abuse and neglect is profitable in the factory farm business. I see your point that killing is an ugly business, but unnecessary torture, brutality, and suffering makes it much uglier.

  18. #18
    Crank Crushing Redneck SamDaBikinMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    A van down by the river.
    My Bikes
    Bikes are environmentally damaging
    Posts
    2,600
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Chicken? YUM YUM.

    Beets? Blah, yuck!

    Beef? Delicious.

    Brussel sprouts? Puke!

    Pork? Tasty tasty!

    Artichoke? Choke! Gasp!

    I like most veggies but not enough to give up my meat. As far as conditions go, they just need to be clean when they hit my grill.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  19. #19
    Devilmaycare Cycling Fool Allister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Wynnum, Australia
    My Bikes
    1998 Cannondale F700
    Posts
    3,819
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If we learn from our mistakes, I must be a goddamn genius.

  20. #20
    wonderer, wanderer gonesh9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    portland, or
    My Bikes
    surly crosscheck, yeti 575, salsa moto rapido, kona ute
    Posts
    1,712
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Anyone have any opinions regarding health benefits or health dangers of a vegetarian diet?

  21. #21
    Traffic shark
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    California
    My Bikes
    2 fixies, 1 road, 29er in the works.
    Posts
    4,612
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Do your views reflect his?
    Regards,
    William
    For the SD Crowd

    sdbikecommuter.com

    View from the handle bars:
    sdcyclist.blogspot.com

  22. #22
    Its a Lemming thing... jester69's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    329
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here is a nice site on what I call being a Concientious Carnivore. I/e I eat meat but try to keep it free of the cruelty of factory farms. I see nothing wrong with killing an animal for food but do see something wrong with torturing it beforehand.

    It really is an entertaining and well done parody of the matrix.

    http://www.themeatrix.com/

    take care,

    Jester
    If you are in St. Louis, MO or surrounding areas it is imperative that you check this out: www.stlbikeworks.com.

    Bikeworks is: A nonprofit bike co-operative to benefit all who come in contact with it.
    Bikeworks needs: Donations of bikes, Volunteers, people to buy cheap cool bike stuff.

    (selling: fixed gear and fixie stuff. Frames. Drivetrain bits from campagnolo, shimano, etc. Wheels and Wheelsets. Modern parts and vintage rarities. Whole bikes that are checked out and ready to go.

  23. #23
    wonderer, wanderer gonesh9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    portland, or
    My Bikes
    surly crosscheck, yeti 575, salsa moto rapido, kona ute
    Posts
    1,712
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jester69
    Here is a nice site on what I call being a Concientious Carnivore. http://www.themeatrix.com/
    I just saw that last night, really great stuff. I was glad to see a promotion like that for concientious meat eating. You all should check out the link, really funny.

  24. #24
    Bike Happy DanFromDetroit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Detroit, MI USA
    Posts
    695
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I would have to say that I agree with alot of the article that Allister posted, even though I am not a meat eater. My objections to Factory Farming and modern food processing and packaging are largely political and only secondarily related to the quality of the "output" (food that is). I have much the same problem with large-scale soybean production and the industrial processes used to turn these beans into something that looks alot like food.

    I have not eaten any meat in the last 4 years. I do eat milk, cheese, eggs and fish. I try to eat minimally processed food that is in-season locally. I also try not to cook it too much or embellish it with spices and sauces. I do this because it make me feel better and saves me time. I suppose it probably helps keep my levels of cholesterol and the amount of sugar and salt that I consume lower as well.

    Dan
    There is nothing homlier than the face on your last dime.
    --John Wildcat, Greenback Friend

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Gambrills, Maryland
    Posts
    2,717
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by gonesh9
    Personally, I feel that the current state of animal suffering in factory farms
    If God didn't want us to eat meat, He wouldn't have invented gravy.
    "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •